GDT: The Alberta Election 2012 - The Morning After - PC Majority Government

[Tinordi]

The road just got alot harder for the Wildrose Party. Don't fool yourself by Wildrose's gain. The coalition of libertarians, bigots, balanced budget, rural voters simply is not big enough to win. They need to move left to have a chance at governing and that ground is held solidly by the PCs at this point.

Alberta is changing. Voters in Alberta are changing. The PC's shift to a more traditional centre is evidence of how large influxes of migrants for the rest of Canada and the world are changing the political identity of the province. This was Wildrose's shot. They either have to completely purge and gain tack on a set of issues where they out-wedge the PCs or wait for a scandal.

Based on how blown back the PCs were initially by scandals they're going to be running a much tighter ship.

I think that Wildrose has a place in and of that Alberta is a diverse and complex enough polity to demand an opposition party but that when they really looked at what this party stood for, urban voters cast them off like chaps and vests the day after Stampede. For that party to be successful they need to bring more to the table than tired right-right wing policy proposals.

Albertans are an erudite bunch it would appear by them understanding the complexities and trade-offs of governing, which is why they chose the 'status quo' proposals of Redford. How the Wildrose makes inroads to that is an exercise they'll have to look to internally at first.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by SebC

And electing a party leader with one caucus endorsement didn't do that? Even the whole "not your father's PC party" line kind of says "message received". Redford has a chance and a mandate to clean them up. If she doesn't, WRP will get another chance to beat them.

And hauling Lougheed out of mothballs says they played you for a fool with that line.

[oilyfan]

Originally Posted by Dion

Trimming the fat in health care and education should be the way to go but voters rejected that idea from Smith. Throwing dollars after dollars at health care isn't going to solve the problem and the PC govt hasn't shown me they know how to manage health care.

As for primary care centers....



http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/...ontent=2410144

From the same article:

Doctors have a reason to fear a new system – it might shift funding away from a fee-for-service model (one where funds are channelled through doctors, who then hire staff) to directly paying other staff in a clinic. Dr. Slocombe says she's not concerned that doctors may face a pay cut, and UBC's Prof. Wong says some doctors – particularly young ones – are eager to move away from a system that strictly pays doctors who then hire staff.

“Basically you're incentivizing some types of care over others,” with the existing system, said Prof. Wong, who is also a registered nurse. She believes collaborative care is the future. “As the population gets more complex, in terms of their care needs, there needs to be other people involved in their care,” she says.

[You Need a Thneed]

Voted for Kang, but now knowing the full results of the election, I'm not sure who I'm cheering for to win the close race in Calgary-McCall. Kang or Galpin would be good MLAs, I think.

[bizaro86]

Originally Posted by You Need a Thneed

Darshan Kang might get another Liberal seat as well.

I feel CP let me down on this one. Or did I miss the "I voted for Kodos" comments upthread?

edited: Other than in your custom user title?

[photon]

You guys have talked about the "first past the post system", and I've never really given it any thought, but what's an example of a "better" system? Someone mentioned proportional representation, but how does that work in a practical sense (i.e. how would an election be setup)?

[Senator Clay Davis]

Raj looks like he's gonna squeak through

[Makarov]

Another interesting note: obviously theories proposed in the CalgaryPuck forum poll thread that posters on CalgaryPuck are more liberal than the average Calgarian (or Albertan) were incorrect. Indeed, if anything, it looks like CalgaryPuck posters are generally more conservative.

[Tinordi]

Originally Posted by photon

You guys have talked about the "first past the post system", and I've never really given it any thought, but what's an example of a "better" system? Someone mentioned proportional representation, but how does that work in a practical sense (i.e. how would an election be setup)?

The basic idea of a PR election would be you vote for a party instead of a candidate and each part submits a list of candidates in priority queue. If you have a legislature with 100 seats and party A wins 40% of the popular vote then they get 40 seats and the first 40 candidates in the priority list are sworn in. Repeat.

But there are many many many different models of that basic premise..

[You Need a Thneed]

Originally Posted by bizaro86

I feel CP let me down on this one. Or did I miss the "I voted for Kodos" comments upthread?

edited: Other than in your custom user title?

My Custom User title refers back to the last provincial election.

[Makarov]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

Raj looks like he's gonna squeak through

I think that is good for Alberta politics. Its important to have four official parties, and all of those parties' leaders, in the Legislature. Diversity of viewpoints is a real strength.

[Cube Inmate]

Originally Posted by Table 5

Meh, I wasn't feareful of anything the WR said. Just simply didn't agree with most of it. That's still allowed, right?

That's allowed. May I suggest that if you're here discussing this, chances are you're more tuned-in to actual policies than the vast majority of voters. If you happened to believe in what PC was selling, that's your choice. Obviously your life experiences have led you to to a different philosophy than mine.

The vast majority of people don't put that much thought into their vote, though. Momma Redford told them that she was "frightened," and they should be too.

Frankly, I'm now frightened for what will happen to my liberties with Redford in charge for 4 full years with no effective opposition. Stelmach did enough damage in his time, and he was just a bumbling fool. Redford is way smarter and more devious than him.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by photon

You guys have talked about the "first past the post system", and I've never really given it any thought, but what's an example of a "better" system? Someone mentioned proportional representation, but how does that work in a practical sense (i.e. how would an election be setup)?

BC had a referendum a couple years ago on the Single Transferable Vote system. Basically, instead of voting for one candidate, you would rank several by order of preference. If a candidate achieves a majority of eligible votes votes in the region, they are declared elected and all further ballots with their name are counted for the second candidate. Losing candidates are lopped off as well, and those second choices are used, then third choices, then fourth, etc., until the required number of seats are filled.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single_Transferable_Vote

Complaints of the system are that it is very complicated, and that with huge multi-person ridings, you would lose the advantage (if one exists), of having a local representative.

[Iowa_Flames_Fan]

I'm wondering if the Wild Rose is now going to be more interested in proportional representation.

A 9% difference in the polls equated to a 40 seat difference in the legislature. On the other hand, the Wild Rose appears to have beaten the Liberals by 25%, but only have 13 more seats. Our current system produces odd results.

[dbcTweeker]

Originally Posted by You Need a Thneed

Voted for Kang, but now knowing the full results of the election, I'm not sure who I'm cheering for to win the close race in Calgary-McCall. Kang or Galpin would be good MLAs, I think.

Don't blame me... I voted for Kodos.

[photon]

Originally Posted by Tinordi

The basic idea of a PR election would be you vote for a party instead of a candidate and each part submits a list of candidates in priority queue. If you have a legislature with 100 seats and party A wins 40% of the popular vote then they get 40 seats and the first 40 candidates in the priority list are sworn in. Repeat.

But there are many many many different models of that basic premise..

So you kinda lose direct representation, the idea that person X will represent me well so I'll vote for them.. or person Y is crazy so I'll vote for someone else even though person Y is on the party I like...

It does dispense with the polite fiction of the direct representation though, people mostly vote for the party anyway, and votes are pretty much along party lines.

Interesting.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by Iowa_Flames_Fan

I'm wondering if the Wild Rose is now going to be more interested in proportional representation.

A 9% difference in the polls equated to a 40 seat difference in the legislature. On the other hand, the Wild Rose appears to have beaten the Liberals by 25%, but only have 13 more seats. Our current system produces odd results.

They might now, but the PCs wont, and frankly, if Wildrose wins next time, they wont then either. Unless they win, pass that referendum law, and Albertans themselves demand it.

Very surprised to see how poorly Wildrose did in the central and northern rural ridings. I would have expected several more seats up there, and more than twoish in Calgary. Ultimately not enough to win, but enough to put the breaks on Redford.

[Daradon]

Originally Posted by Makarov

Another interesting note: obviously theories proposed in the CalgaryPuck forum poll thread that posters on CalgaryPuck are more liberal than the average Calgarian (or Albertan) were incorrect. Indeed, if anything, it looks like CalgaryPuck posters are generally more conservative.

No, I believe we were just fooled by the polls and pollsters as well.

If you look at any of our threads about gay rights, religion and state, etc. I think you'll find that CP is more liberal than the average Calgarian. Course I imagine that could be cause a lot of posters here are not from Calgary, but I'd be willing to be the ones that are from Calgary or Alberta are generally a little bit more left than than average in the city.

That's not to say we'd measure the same against other areas of Canada, but I'd feel pretty safe stating that when it comes to Albertans.

[bizaro86]

Originally Posted by photon

So you kinda lose direct representation, the idea that person X will represent me well so I'll vote for them.. or person Y is crazy so I'll vote for someone else even though person Y is on the party I like...

It does dispense with the polite fiction of the direct representation though, people mostly vote for the party anyway, and votes are pretty much along party lines.

Interesting.

PR gives a lot of power to whoever sets the order for party lists. Sounds like a potentially great way to add power to party insiders.

[automaton 3]

Looks like Albertans chose "the devil you know" and WRP will need to prove itself in opposition.

Was really hoping for a stronger opposition, but so be it.