2012 NFL Offseason Thread

[ResAlien]

Originally Posted by diane_phaneuf

I don't think Forte is elite, I think he's a great pass catching back but Bush is a better runner and that by December Bush is running the ball more times per game than Forte is regardless of health

That's just your pro Raider bias coming out. Bush is a good RB but Forte is an exceptional one. There's a reason one hit the open market and one is getting franchised.

[moon]

Originally Posted by diane_phaneuf

I don't think Forte is elite, I think he's a great pass catching back but Bush is a better runner and that by December Bush is running the ball more times per game than Forte is regardless of health

Really?

Matt Forte had more yards in less carries behind a brutal Bears line last season.

I haven't seen anything from Bush to make me think he would be a good starting RB and that is from a team in desperate need of a RB.

Also, when Forte is an elite pass catching RB why is that tossed out the window? Seems like his better running and better passing would make him a better option in most situations.

[DropIt]

Originally Posted by diane_phaneuf

I don't think Forte is elite, I think he's a great pass catching back but Bush is a better runner and that by December Bush is running the ball more times per game than Forte is regardless of health

Im not even sure how to respond here, but it is obvious that either you just really are talking out of your ass or havent watched a game in which Matt Forte can take over. Forte may be one of the best running backs in the game when it comes to effectively contributing in all 3 facets of running, blocking and receiving, behind only McCoy in my personal opinion.
Based on skill alone, there is no possible way that Bush comes close to upseating Forte and would at best get in every 3rd series. I like the signing for an insurance point of view going forward, but Bush doesnt touch Forte at one single thing as a Running back.
I'd wait to see how Bush will run with the league's worst offensive line in front of him before making too many outlandish claims

[Otsy]

Originally Posted by DropIt

Im not even sure how to respond here, but it is obvious that either you just really are talking out of your ass or havent watched a game in which Matt Forte can take over. Forte may be one of the best running backs in the game when it comes to effectively contributing in all 3 facets of running, blocking and receiving, behind only McCoy in my personal opinion.
Based on skill alone, there is no possible way that Bush comes close to upseating Forte and would at best get in every 3rd series. I like the signing for an insurance point of view going forward, but Bush doesnt touch Forte at one single thing as a Running back.
I'd wait to see how Bush will run with the league's worst offensive line in front of him before making too many outlandish claims

Agreed, Forte is hands down the better back.

Bush didn't even start the year as a starter and was worn out by the end of the year last year. His numbers from week 12 on were not good. Only over 4 YPC once in those last 6 games and not close to 100 yards in any of them either topping out at 78. Forte will have a nice back up in Bush, but that's about it.

[Otsy]

Originally Posted by Drake

Adam Schefer:

I love this. Hopefully don't need him playing receiver at all if the Moss experiment works out, so Ginn can just concentrate on being a stud returner and getting Smith and the offense great starting spots.

49ers also signed Josh Johnson yesterday. Not too sure on this one, creates more QB competetion which is good, but would have like to see Kaepernick keep the back up role, now likely he'll be third string and Johnson second.

[transplant99]

Denver was in a great position. They had a talented, up-and-coming quarterback who just delivered the franchise’s greatest moment in 13 years. Tebow is young and he is improving. He galvanized the fan base. He sold jerseys. He said all the right things and did all the right things. He was (and is) a one-of-a-kind personality.

What an idiotic statement...Tebow is not a QB that is "up and coming" whatsoever. He is a guy that barely hung on to his job through last season and now has lost it to a 36 YO injured guy. In fact, he may never be a starting QB again.

Granted, he is improving, but how hard is that to do when you were inept and brutal to begin with?

[d_phaneuf]

I dont know how anyone can look at Forte's stats and say he's elite

he's an average runner that's a great pass catcher

I wouldn't have him in my top 12-15 RB's in the league

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by DropIt

Forte may be one of the best running backs in the game when it comes to effectively contributing in all 3 facets of running, blocking and receiving, behind only McCoy in my personal opinion.

Even as an Eagles fan, I don't think there's a big drop-off between McCoy and Forte. Forte is a much more physical runner, whereas McCoy is shiftier. I think the only reason I take McCoy right now is because he's younger.

Anyways, Forte isn't very happy about the Bush signing.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...inVS_blog.html

Matt Forte wasn’t terribly happy when the Chicago Bears used their franchise tag on him. And, after the team signed Michael Bush on Thursday, he really wasn’t happy.

“There’s only so many times a man that has done everything he’s been asked to do can be disrespected!” Forte tweeted. “Guess the good guys do finish last.”

[Otsy]

Originally Posted by diane_phaneuf

I dont know how anyone can look at Forte's stats and say he's elite

he's an average runner that's a great pass catcher

I wouldn't have him in my top 12-15 RB's in the league

Stats???? Like his last year of 12 games played, 990 rushing yards, 4.9 ypc, 52 receptions for 490 yards.

What kind of stats do you think the "elite" guys have? I want to play in your fantasy league

[rubecube]

Two NFL insiders, speaking on the condition of anonymity because of the sensitivity of the topic, said that Philadelphia Coach Andy Reid was ready to walk away from the Eagles if he didn't get more personnel control, and now he has it. We've seen a flurry of decisive moves by the Eagles in recent weeks, including finally cutting a blockbuster deal with receiver DeSean Jackson; extending two good soldiers, defensive end Trent Cole and right tackle Todd Herremans, outbidding the Ravens to keep guard Evan Mathis; and trading for Pro Bowl linebacker DeMeco Ryans.

Something else about the Eagles: Reid wanted to jump in the Peyton Manning sweepstakes, despite the signing of Michael Vick to a six-year, $100-million contract last season. Talks never got too serious, the insiders say, because Manning didn't like the idea of playing against his brother Eli, quarterback of the New York Giants, at least twice a season

I freaking knew it!

[d_phaneuf]

Originally Posted by Otsy

Stats???? Like his last year of 12 games played, 990 rushing yards, 4.9 ypc, 52 receptions for 490 yards.

What kind of stats do you think the "elite" guys have? I want to play in your fantasy league

again I have said he is a very good pass catcher, no one has disputed that

his career ypc is 4.2 and he averages a 1st down every 5.5 carries

MJD 4.6
McFadden 4.8
AP 4.8
Ray Rice 4.6
McCoy 4.8
Foster 4.7
Gore 4.6
Turner 4.6
Chris Johnson 4.8

and most of those guys average between 4 and 4.5 runs per 1st down

he's not on those guys level, there's a reason the bears aren't paying him big money

[DropIt]

Originally Posted by rubecube

Even as an Eagles fan, I don't think there's a big drop-off between McCoy and Forte. Forte is a much more physical runner, whereas McCoy is shiftier. I think the only reason I take McCoy right now is because he's younger.

Anyways, Forte isn't very happy about the Bush signing.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...inVS_blog.html

As he shouldn't be, his backup now makes as much guaranteed money as he does. And after sacrificing himself last season in a contract year for the good of the team. I guess there must be a pretty big gap between what player and org thinks he is worth, because they haven't come close to hitting his number.

[Mike Vernon]

Originally Posted by valo403

And you know the Jags are offering a 4th how?

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d...headline_stack

"The Jaguars offered a fourth-round draft pick for Tebow, but the former Florida star ended up going to the New York Jets for two picks."

[DropIt]

Originally Posted by diane_phaneuf

again I have said he is a very good pass catcher, no one has disputed that

his career ypc is 4.2 and he averages a 1st down every 5.5 carries

MJD 4.6
McFadden 4.8
AP 4.8
Ray Rice 4.6
McCoy 4.8
Foster 4.7
Gore 4.6
Turner 4.6
Chris Johnson 4.8

and most of those guys average between 4 and 4.5 runs per 1st down

he's not on those guys level, there's a reason the bears aren't paying him big money

You are forgetting to mention that he is running behind the leagues worst offensive line. To a point of which is not even compareable. The same group that 2 years ago had Cutler getting sacked more then 15 times the next most-sacked Quarterback. They were leaps and bounds improved this season then they were the last and still ranked at the bottom of the barrell, MF averaged 4.2 while still being the 'most hit behind the line of scrimmage' starting back in the league last year, he lead all Starters in being brought down for 0 to negative yards and still averaged 4.2 per carry and basically 1000 yards in 12 games. Forte is an excellent runner and I really don't think he is far behind as the best in the division. Not to mention that only MJD contributed for a larger percentage in his teams total points scored.

[d_phaneuf]

Originally Posted by DropIt

As he shouldn't be, his backup now makes as much guaranteed money as he does. And after sacrificing himself last season in a contract year for the good of the team. I guess there must be a pretty big gap between what player and org thinks he is worth, because they haven't come close to hitting his number.

paying running backs big money rarely works out well

[Otsy]

Originally Posted by diane_phaneuf

again I have said he is a very good pass catcher, no one has disputed that

his career ypc is 4.2 and he averages a 1st down every 5.5 carries

MJD 4.6
McFadden 4.8
AP 4.8
Ray Rice 4.6
McCoy 4.8
Foster 4.7
Gore 4.6
Turner 4.6
Chris Johnson 4.8

and most of those guys average between 4 and 4.5 runs per 1st down

he's not on those guys level, there's a reason the bears aren't paying him big money

He was just franchised, meaning he's getting top money for this year. You know what, the exact same money as Ray Rice since he was franchised this year too and he's on your list. He's been running with a terrible offensive line and has really had no help from the passing game because the bears haven't addressed the need at receiver and have given Cutler very little to work with. He's been progressing and was having a career year last year until he got hurt.

[d_phaneuf]

Originally Posted by Otsy

He was just franchised, meaning he's getting top money for this year. You know what, the exact same money as Ray Rice since he was franchised this year too and he's on your list. He's been running with a terrible offensive line and has really had no help from the passing game because the bears haven't addressed the need at receiver and have given Cutler very little to work with. He's been progressing and was having a career year last year until he got hurt.

Yes and franchising makes sense

giving him a long term deal with big money doesn't

look at chris johnson last year

there's 1 back I would have paid money too pre-injury and that's AP

[Otsy]

Originally Posted by diane_phaneuf

Yes and franchising makes sense

giving him a long term deal with big money doesn't

look at chris johnson last year

there's 1 back I would have paid money too pre-injury and that's AP

I wouldn't give any back a long term deal either. I think it's stupid since a RB career life isn't usually very long, even with AP.

he's not on those guys level, there's a reason the bears aren't paying him big money

Then what point are you trying to make if you're saying paying top 5 money franchising is OK? Ravens did the exact same thing to what you would call a far more elite RB.

[d_phaneuf]

what would make more sense is paying the money Matt Forte wants to improve the offensive line, which from looking at the advanced stats looks average to me, not terrible

good offensive line + average rb> bad offensive line + good rb

[d_phaneuf]

Originally Posted by Otsy

I wouldn't give any back a long term deal either. I think it's stupid since a RB career life isn't usually very long, even with AP.



Then what point are you trying to make if you're saying paying top 5 money franchising is OK? Ravens did the exact same thing to what you would call a far more elite RB.

the term is the difference

Forte wants a long term deal, giving him a long term deal hits the cap for many years

franchising means they have no commitment to him after this season if they dont want too

it gives much more flexibility