2012 NFL Offseason Thread

[Sylvanfan]

Originally Posted by Flabbibulin

This will be a divisive topic for sure, but I think its one of the worst days in Colts history.

It has to be bittersweet. Peyton Manning is the Colts history in Indiapolis, and turned that franchise around. No Manning and the Colts today quite possibly have no new stadium, and are rumored to be on the move again.

But he's not the first legend to move on and he won't be the last. If Andrew Luck wasn't what he is on the field, and didn't carry himself the way he did, maybe Manning is retained. But I think it's similar to when Farve left Green Bay...four years from now they'll remember Manning fondly, but they'll be winning with his replacement.

[Flabbibulin]

Well exactly- I don't want to say its necessarily a mistakes- it probably isn't and arguably only a small risk... still it is an awful that it is coming to an end like this. Im not getting the vibe though that this is going the way of Favre-GB. Seems like Manning knows its the smart move for the organization.

[Displaced Flames fan]

The end to this story is going to be extremely underwhelming.

The Colts are absolutely making the right call.

I will be stunned if Manning returns to anywhere near his previous form.

[flames_1987]

I was a Colts fan before Peyton was drafted. Jim Harbaugh as Captain Comeback in that Colts run that was a hail mary away from getting them into the Superbowl was what made me like this team. I really became a true die hard Colts fan watching Peyton though. I don't think we we will ever see an offense ran like that again. It was amazing to watch it when it clicked and his ability to read a defense like nobody else. Having to watch that Colts team go through those ups and downs, and then watching Peyton lead them back against the Patriots in the AFC Championship may be my all time favorite sports memory. It's been incredible watching Peyton lead that team and going into every Sunday the last decade believing the Colts were gonna win. It's a sad day for the franchise, Manning not only brought a new arena, Primetime games and a whole lot of coverage to the Colts but he also brought a whole generation of new Colts fans. It was the right move and it had to be done. The Colts have failed so many times at making the hard decisions or taking that hard look at themselves in the mirror.

Any team that gets Peyton becomes instantly one of the top contenders to win the Superbowl. It sounds like Peyton is willing to take on an incentive heavy contract meaning he will not be an anchor to any team moving forward if he can't stay healthy. He has 3-4 Peyton Manning years left in him, and can still be an elite QB even in those last years because his football IQ is almost unmatched in the history of the game. If he shows you he's in good health and throwing the ball well, I don't see how you don't go after him. I think we are going to see a lot more teams make serious pitches for him then some people tend to think. We are talking about one of the greatest quarterbacks to ever play the game and you don't have to give up anything for him. Imagine Peyton Manning with a defense.....Look at what he's done with the Colts, a 32nd running game, a weak offensive line and a terribly weak defense.

You're getting a motivated Peyton Manning with something to prove.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by flames_1987

I was a Colts fan before Peyton was drafted. Jim Harbaugh as Captain Comeback in that Colts run that was a hail mary away from getting them into the Superbowl was what made me like this team. I really became a true die hard Colts fan watching Peyton though. I don't think we we will ever see an offense ran like that again. It was amazing to watch it when it clicked and his ability to read a defense like nobody else. Having to watch that Colts team go through those ups and downs, and then watching Peyton lead them back against the Patriots in the AFC Championship may be my all time favorite sports memory. It's been incredible watching Peyton lead that team and going into every Sunday the last decade believing the Colts were gonna win. It's a sad day for the franchise, Manning not only brought a new arena, Primetime games and a whole lot of coverage to the Colts but he also brought a whole generation of new Colts fans. It was the right move and it had to be done. The Colts have failed so many times at making the hard decisions or taking that hard look at themselves in the mirror.

Any team that gets Peyton becomes instantly one of the top contenders to win the Superbowl. It sounds like Peyton is willing to take on an incentive heavy contract meaning he will not be an anchor to any team moving forward if he can't stay healthy. He has 3-4 Peyton Manning years left in him, and can still be an elite QB even in those last years because his football IQ is almost unmatched in the history of the game. If he shows you he's in good health and throwing the ball well, I don't see how you don't go after him. I think we are going to see a lot more teams make serious pitches for him then some people tend to think. We are talking about one of the greatest quarterbacks to ever play the game and you don't have to give up anything for him. Imagine Peyton Manning with a defense.....Look at what he's done with the Colts, a 32nd running game, a weak offensive line and a terribly weak defense.

You're getting a motivated Peyton Manning with something to prove.

Unfortunately, I have to disagree completely.

The mind is willing but when the body isnt, there is nothing that can be done. He is 36 years old and coming off 4 surgeries in a very serious area of the body for a QB and hasnt had real contact in 14 months. His body already shows signs of not being able to handle the rigors of the position, and now he will be learning a whole new O line somewhere else....something that takes time and usually leads to more than a few nasty hits before being mastered.

I will cheer for him to succeed because he is one of the very best to ever play, but i just dont see any way that this ends well.

[flames_1987]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Unfortunately, I have to disagree completely.

The mind is willing but when the body isnt, there is nothing that can be done. He is 36 years old and coming off 4 surgeries in a very serious area of the body for a QB and hasnt had real contact in 14 months. His body already shows signs of not being able to handle the rigors of the position, and now he will be learning a whole new O line somewhere else....something that takes time and usually leads to more than a few nasty hits before being mastered.

I will cheer for him to succeed because he is one of the very best to ever play, but i just dont see any way that this ends well.

He played with a horrible offensive line in Indianapolis and still managed not to get sacked much. I don't think you can take away that pocket presence and quick feet he has.

I will say that the 4th surgery is still just an internet rumor, but it's not like 3 surgeries is somehow any lighter, so I guess there's no point for me to make there. Expecting 3-4 years of quality Peyton Manning play might be me being a little optimistic, but for next season, I'm betting against the guy. Nobody works harder then this man and I think he's put everything he has into this rehab.

It's just him throwing the ball to receivers with no defense, in an empty arena, but the reports from the people that have caught the ball from him and from people around him, they've been glowing of late. Clearly any team that signs him is going to do their homework and know the shape he is in. I'm just not going to bet against the guy.

It's going to be a circus for his 1st game back though.

[dirk diggler]

Originally Posted by CofR

More trouble for the Saints?

Because the Saints dont want to pay 23 million to Brees, he is livid. he is a joke, i guess 18 million just wont do... what a tool

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by flames_1987

He played with a horrible offensive line in Indianapolis and still managed not to get sacked much. I don't think you can take away that pocket presence and quick feet he has.

I will say that the 4th surgery is still just an internet rumor, but it's not like 3 surgeries is somehow any lighter, so I guess there's no point for me to make there. Expecting 3-4 years of quality Peyton Manning play might be me being a little optimistic, but for next season, I'm betting against the guy. Nobody works harder then this man and I think he's put everything he has into this rehab.

It's just him throwing the ball to receivers with no defense, in an empty arena, but the reports from the people that have caught the ball from him and from people around him, they've been glowing of late. Clearly any team that signs him is going to do their homework and know the shape he is in. I'm just not going to bet against the guy.

It's going to be a circus for his 1st game back though.

Eh?

No they didnt run block well at all, but they certainly could pass block....and that's what a guy like him needs even with his quick release (that has to be slowed down at this point) and his "quick" feet aren't all that quick at all. I will say that if he gets behind a really good pass protect line, then yeah he will be OK. The problem with that though is that the teams likely to go after him are for the most part quite weak in one of two key areas he will need help in...pass protect or at receiver.

Again...Brett Favre could go out right now and whistle balls all over a field when there is no one coming after him, but his body too simply couldnt do it anymore in game action and he never was severely injured like Manning.

You cant fight father time....we have seen it over and over again in football from great QB's. 3 surgeries and 2 fused vertebrae later is something that cannot simply have no effect.

All that being said, no matter where he goes, the team will improve from what they have even at his reduced capacity. I hope he finds some success because he certainly is a class guy and has been so good for the sport through its massive growth years.

[flames_1987]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Eh?

No they didnt run block well at all, but they certainly could pass block....and that's what a guy like him needs even with his quick release (that has to be slowed down at this point) and his "quick" feet aren't all that quick at all. I will say that if he gets behind a really good pass protect line, then yeah he will be OK. The problem with that though is that the teams likely to go after him are for the most part quite weak in one of two key areas he will need help in...pass protect or at receiver.

Again...Brett Favre could go out right now and whistle balls all over a field when there is no one coming after him, but his body too simply couldnt do it anymore in game action and he never was severely injured like Manning.

You cant fight father time....we have seen it over and over again in football from great QB's. 3 surgeries and 2 fused vertebrae later is something that cannot simply have no effect.

All that being said, no matter where he goes, the team will improve from what they have even at his reduced capacity. I hope he finds some success because he certainly is a class guy and has been so good for the sport through its massive growth years.

He has incredibly quick feet. Nobody in the league is better at moving in the pocket the Manning. His pocket presence is incredible and he's always moving. It's probably the area of his game that's improved the most over his time in the league. He doesn't have quick feet in the sense of being able to scramble, but to avoid sacks and keep himself in the pocket, he is one of the best of all time. The Colts offensive line has been brutal in both aspects the last few years. He was constantly pressured his last few seasons and the Colts line could barely hold a pocket, especially against any teams with size up front.

I agree with a lot of what else you are saying and I can fully admit I'm coming from a very optimistic place when talking about my favorite player of all time. There is no question that this will have an impact on him after an injury of this magnitude.

The Colts have not had any talk with Reggie Wayne and there were reports last week about the two being a package deal. In a perfect world I'd love to see him go to Arizona with Wayne and get to watch him throw the ball to him and Fitzgerald.

The most interesting part of this all is how long this will play out. I don't see Peyton having the type of personality to drag this out and let it become a distraction.

[Montana Moe]

Originally Posted by dirk diggler

Because the Saints dont want to pay 23 million to Brees, he is livid. he is a joke, i guess 18 million just wont do... what a tool

Still angry that the Chargers gave him up?

It's all posturing, the deal will get done. He'll miss little to no time.

Why would he not deserve $23 million? He's been playing on a sub standard contract in relation to his level of play, this contract will likely be his last. Get that money, Drew.

[OILFAN #81]

My favorite football player to ever play in the NFL. Thanks for all the great times since '98 and the Superbowl win in 2006. I hope Peyton and Wayne team up and I hope that team wins a Superbowl or two down the road (unless it is the Jets from the rumored teams that are interested). Wouldn't be surprised if Manning, Wayne and Garcon all sign together. I think Peyton will still play at a high level for at least 2 more seasons.

Also, welcome officially to Andrew Luck. I think he is the real deal and will be a great QB in the league.

As crappy as it is to see Manning leave, it was expected and I am looking forward to the Andrew Luck era in Indy. The first few years will be rocky just as they were with Manning, but I think long term Indy will be just fine with Luck as QB.

[browna]

King tweeted that he thinks SEA will make a big push for the Manning/Wayne combo. With the 4th most cap room, they have the money and the owner that will spend it.

Its a big gamble for both players really, but Wayne even without Manning is the #2 WR on SEA probably still. And if Manning can make Garcon and the other Indy receivers into what they are, with Rice, and two good TE's, and a guy like Wayne, the options will be there for Manning to get the passes away early. And of course Lynch to hand off too.

If the Manning thing doesn't work for any reason (I think you'll know by 3/4 of the way through the season at latest, if his injury is going to affect him/force him to retire), Jackson is still a perfectly ok (not great, but got better last year as it went on) option at QB, plus he'd played the bridesmaid before in MIN.

Put it this way, Manning on the Seahawks doesn't stunt the growth of the offense as far as another QB missing that development time, or, having a big $ QB suddenly holding a clip board like it would for some other teams. If it takes Wayne to sweeten the pot, so be it. The NFC West IMO is still up for grabs between 3 teams (even with Jackson as QB IMO) and Seattle is as a good a shot as any of to make the playoffs out of that division with Mannning if he is even 75% of the player he used to be and is not hampered by his injury.

MIA has no strong #1 QB, the nice weather, but also have the Pats and circus that is the Jets in the same division to have to leapfrog. KC too has the open QB position going for it, a division that is wide open, but has the colder weather.

I can't see him going to WSH or NYJ with the weather and the eastern media stoking up the rivalry with his brother either in the same city or in the same division. ARI, though, has a similar shot to SEA, other then having just paid a bunch for Kolb, ($ and trade wise to the Eagles). Same up for grabs division, a bit warmer home game weather.

Something tells me Manning won't wait too long to make a decision, and also I think his suitors are lining up with the offers as we speak...they all would like to have to things determined in advance of the draft.

[CofR]

Originally Posted by dirk diggler

Because the Saints dont want to pay 23 million to Brees, he is livid. he is a joke, i guess 18 million just wont do... what a tool

One thing that the lockout taught us is that Brees is also a big union guy... Its probably not a move to be selfish... But to get the maximum amount that he can to protect the integrity of the union.

How would it look if a guy who just fought so hard for the rights of players accepted a contract below market value?

[dirk diggler]

Originally Posted by Montana Moe

Still angry that the Chargers gave him up?

It's all posturing, the deal will get done. He'll miss little to no time.

Why would he not deserve $23 million? He's been playing on a sub standard contract in relation to his level of play, this contract will likely be his last. Get that money, Drew.

What does that have to do with it? Brees has to realize they have put an all star team on offense around him, it isnt just him. if he thinks he deserves that, then he cant complain when they cant re sign a lot of core guys.

[dirk diggler]

Originally Posted by CofR

One thing that the lockout taught us is that Brees is also a big union guy... Its probably not a move to be selfish... But to get the maximum amount that he can to protect the integrity of the union.

How would it look if a guy who just fought so hard for the rights of players accepted a contract below market value?

is 18 million a year below market value? what does Brady get paid, if i am not mistaken, it is for around that amount. I just find his reaction and being livid a little much.

[North East Goon]

The 49ers should get in on the Manning train, they are not far off from winning it all. There achillees heel in that NFC Championship game was Alex Smith in my oppinion.

[dirk diggler]

Originally Posted by North East Goon

The 49ers should get in on the Manning train, they are not far off from winning it all. There achillees heel in that NFC Championship game was Alex Smith in my oppinion.

and no real recieving threat other than Davis, Craptree was awful.

[Otsy]

Originally Posted by dirk diggler

and no real recieving threat other than Davis, Craptree was awful.

Agreed, tendering their late first round pick for Wallace would be nice, or going after Vincent Jackson. Big fast receivers. VJax could help their red zone issues as well.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by North East Goon

The 49ers should get in on the Manning train, they are not far off from winning it all. There achillees heel in that NFC Championship game was Alex Smith in my oppinion.

This is what I don't understand. You have 3-4 teams with excellent defenses, who seem to be married to average QBs (SF, BAL, NYJ, TEN) when an elite QB like Manning could bring them a Super Bowl.

[troutman]

Can you imagine Brady playing for another team?