2011 Stampeders Thread

[moon]

Originally Posted by JayP

Yeah I know the stats are made up because you can't make a legitimate point without delving into ridiculous hyperbole.

But I'd like to see your breakdown and what's actually going on the field. If the stats don't match the play, surely you can provide more than cliches like "he can't make a big throw" and "he just dumps the ball off" to prove it.

Enlighten us.

Whats actually going on on the field is that Glenn doesn't make big or tough throws. Its why his team are often .500 or below, he has never played in, let alone won a play-off game despite playing in the much weaker Eastern division and why he had to split series with Porter last season.

Dump the ball off isn't a cliche it is what he does more often than not.

[moon]

Originally Posted by showtime

How is he not a fantastic backup? He's been a starter in the league for years. Taken teams to the playoffs. Won playoff games. Passed for over 3000 yards 7 seasons in a row. Season with over 5000 yards. He had one less touchdown pass then Burris did last year. Beat Montreal in Montreal in the playoffs.

He isn't a fantastic back-up because he was a bad starter in the league for years on sub-par teams in a weak Eastern division. He isn't a fantastic back-up because he has repeatedly shown that he can't take a team to the Grey Cup and doesn't win big games. He won a few play-off games in the god awful East, that isn't exactly a big thing to hang your hat on.

He is what he is a back-up. Not awful for a back-up but not fantastic either.

[JayP]

Originally Posted by moon

Whats actually going on on the field is that Glenn doesn't make big or tough throws. Its why his team are often .500 or below, he has never played in, let alone won a play-off game despite playing in the much weaker Eastern division and why he had to split series with Porter last season.

Dump the ball off isn't a cliche it is what he does more often than not.

What's going on is you have no idea what you're talking about.

What is a "big" throw? What is a tough throw - is it certain routes he struggles with? His inability to deal with pressure in the pocket? Is it struggles with zone or man coverage in particular? Zone blitzes? His progressions? Can he not make accurate throws outside the pocket?

His teams are .500ish, but anyone with a brain knows he can't control what happens on special teams or defense so why doesn't he take all the blame?

He's played in several playoff games and led the Bombers to the 2007 Grey Cup before getting injured in garbage time of the semis.

Dump the ball may be what he's doing, but when that's your only rebuttal to any statistical analysis it's a joke. Break down what he's actually doing wrong by answering the questions above.

[moon]

Originally Posted by JayP

What's going on is you have no idea what you're talking about.

What is a "big" throw? What is a tough throw - is it certain routes he struggles with? His inability to deal with pressure in the pocket? Is it struggles with zone or man coverage in particular? Zone blitzes? His progressions? Can he not make accurate throws outside the pocket?

His teams are .500ish, but anyone with a brain knows he can't control what happens on special teams or defense so why doesn't he take all the blame?

He's played in several playoff games and led the Bombers to the 2007 Grey Cup before getting injured in garbage time of the semis.

Dump the ball may be what he's doing, but when that's your only rebuttal to any statistical analysis it's a joke. Break down what he's actually doing wrong by answering the questions above.

What statistical analysis?

I have said that Kevin Glenn is a meh QB who was below average during his time as a starter and therefore isn't a fantastic back-up. Is that really a controversial statement?

[JayP]

Originally Posted by moon

What statistical analysis?

I have said that Kevin Glenn is a meh QB who was below average during his time as a starter and therefore isn't a fantastic back-up. Is that really a controversial statement?

You claimed he put up great stats, but still was playing poorly in spite of the numbers. I ask why and all I get is cliches instead of real analysis.

What makes a good back-up QB then?

If an average-to-below average starter isn't a good back-up then what is? Should we have Calvillo backing up Tate? Would that be good enough?

Given the quality of QBs we've seen in the league it's ridiculous to not be satisfied with a guy who can still play like Glenn behind Tate.

[moon]

Originally Posted by JayP

You claimed he put up great stats, but still was playing poorly in spite of the numbers. I ask why and all I get is cliches instead of real analysis.

What makes a good back-up QB then?

If an average-to-below average starter isn't a good back-up then what is? Should we have Calvillo backing up Tate? Would that be good enough?

Given the quality of QBs we've seen in the league it's ridiculous to not be satisfied with a guy who can still play like Glenn behind Tate.

If Glenn was younger than perhaps he would be a fantastic backup QB. But for me he about the same as other backups out there like Jackson, Macpherson, Porter and Brink.

I would say that Glenn was likely the 10th best QB in the league last year so with the other backups in the league he fits in the top half of back ups but is not fantastic.

[JayP]

Originally Posted by moon

If Glenn was younger than perhaps he would be a fantastic backup QB. But for me he about the same as other backups out there like Jackson, Macpherson, Porter and Brink.

I would say that Glenn was likely the 10th best QB in the league last year so with the other backups in the league he fits in the top half of back ups but is not fantastic.

Why does he need to be young?

Isn't the ideal situation for the Stamps to have a veteran back-up behind a first-year starting QB? A safety blanket that guarantees at least there's one half-decent QB in case Tate blows up.

[moon]

Originally Posted by JayP

Why does he need to be young?

Isn't the ideal situation for the Stamps to have a veteran back-up behind a first-year starting QB? A safety blanket that guarantees at least there's one half-decent QB in case Tate blows up.

Because I have little faith in Tate so I would prefer to have another option if Tate doesn't turn out.

I would prefer to have a guy like Macpherson or Porter behind Tate who is better than Glenn and young enough to step in long term when Tate is a dud.

[JayP]

Originally Posted by moon

Because I have little faith in Tate so I would prefer to have another option if Tate doesn't turn out.

I would prefer to have a guy like Macpherson or Porter behind Tate who is better than Glenn and young enough to step in long term when Tate is a dud.

What exactly about Tate gives you such little faith in him?

And why is MacPherson better than Glenn?

[moon]

Originally Posted by JayP

What exactly about Tate gives you such little faith in him?

And why is MacPherson better than Glenn?

Not a fan of Tate's accuracy and ability to read defenses. I saw too many missed wide open guys and some really bad INTs for me to think he is going to be a quality starter.

For Macpherson I would say his mobility is probably what makes him better.

[flamesaresmokin]

Originally Posted by moon

Because I have little faith in Tate so I would prefer to have another option if Tate doesn't turn out.

I would prefer to have a guy like Macpherson or Porter behind Tate who is better than Glenn and young enough to step in long term when Tate is a dud.

How on earth is a completely unproven qb in mcpherson and a very meh option in porter a better option then tate, let alone glenn for that matter?

What rubbish.

[moon]

Originally Posted by flamesaresmokin

How on earth is a completely unproven qb in mcpherson and a very meh option in porter a better option then tate, let alone glenn for that matter?

What rubbish.

Those guys are better options than Glenn.

[JayP]

Originally Posted by moon

Not a fan of Tate's accuracy and ability to read defenses. I saw too many missed wide open guys and some really bad INTs for me to think he is going to be a quality starter.

For Macpherson I would say his mobility is probably what makes him better.

Ah, so you can scout guys based off of 3 starts. Didn't he win all the games he started except for one - why is his record relevant for Glenn, but not Tate?

I'd like to hear more about Tate's struggles to read defenses. What in particular does he struggle with? Man? Zone? Pressure? Watching a guy miss wide open guys and bad INTs can easily be a product of broken/bad routes as much as it is the QB.

[JayP]

Originally Posted by moon

Those guys are better options than Glenn.

Why? Glenn stole Porter's job and MacPherson has thrown 212 balls over four seasons in the CFL. If stats are out of the question, break it down for us, professor.

[Johnny Rotten]

What are the conditions of the draft pick?

[moon]

Originally Posted by JayP

Ah, so you can scout guys based off of 3 starts. Didn't he win all the games he started except for one - why is his record relevant for Glenn, but not Tate?

We can't have opinions on Tate now?

Sure it is a small sample size but there was enough reps to get a sense of how is going to do.

And record means something but how the guy played in those wins or loses means a lot more.

I'd like to hear more about Tate's struggles to read defenses. What in particular does he struggle with? Man? Zone? Pressure? Watching a guy miss wide open guys and bad INTs can easily be a product of broken/bad routes as much as it is the QB.

Not sure what exact coverages he struggles with but at least two of his INTs were thrown right to the defender because Tate didn't see that the guy was dropping into the zone.

Wide open guys are wide open guys sure sometimes there can be mitigating circumstances but for the most part it is just poor throws by the QB or getting too focused on one receiver to notice the other reads.

[moon]

Originally Posted by JayP

Why? Glenn stole Porter's job and MacPherson has thrown 212 balls over four seasons in the CFL. If stats are out of the question, break it down for us, professor.

Glenn was the starter last year and Porter came in for him many times. How did Glenn steal his job?

[showtime]

Originally Posted by moon

He isn't a fantastic back-up because he was a bad starter in the league for years on sub-par teams in a weak Eastern division. He isn't a fantastic back-up because he has repeatedly shown that he can't take a team to the Grey Cup and doesn't win big games. He won a few play-off games in the god awful East, that isn't exactly a big thing to hang your hat on.

He is what he is a back-up. Not awful for a back-up but not fantastic either.

A bad starter thats been in the top 5 for passing yards the last 5 years and passer rating.

Now wait a requirement for a good back up is the ability to lead a team to a grey cup? Cause that sounds an awful lot like a starter. It means are back up has to be what Lulay or Calvillo.

So you're argument will be that Tate sucks so you need a competent backup. Okay thats fair. Then you list Porter (who lost is job to Glenn) and Mcpherson as fantastic backups? Wait what. Neither of those guys have lead a team to the grey cup, which is apparently the requirement for a backup QB.

[moon]

Originally Posted by showtime

A bad starter thats been in the top 5 for passing yards the last 5 years and passer rating.

And split snaps with Porter last season and is now a back-up QB in a league with overall weak QBing.

Now wait a requirement for a good back up is the ability to lead a team to a grey cup? Cause that sounds an awful lot like a starter. It means are back up has to be what Lulay or Calvillo.

So you're argument will be that Tate sucks so you need a competent backup. Okay thats fair. Then you list Porter (who lost is job to Glenn) and Mcpherson as fantastic backups? Wait what. Neither of those guys have lead a team to the grey cup, which is apparently the requirement for a backup QB.

When did competent back-up become the argument? The argument was whether Glenn was a fantastic back-up or not.

Honestly in my view if you were a fantastic back-up then yes the possibility of taking a team to the Grey Cup should be there.

I listed Porter and Macpherson as options over Glenn because they have the potential to improve. I don't think that either guy is ideal as a back-up.

[showtime]

Originally Posted by moon

And split snaps with Porter last season and is now a back-up QB in a league with overall weak QBing.



When did competent back-up become the argument? The argument was whether Glenn was a fantastic back-up or not.

Honestly in my view if you were a fantastic back-up then yes the possibility of taking a team to the Grey Cup should be there.

I listed Porter and Macpherson as options over Glenn because they have the potential to improve. I don't think that either guy is ideal as a back-up.

Fair enough. But if a fantastic backup is one that can carry a team to the grey cup you definitely have your expectations way way to high. Glenn is a fantastic back up because he can come in and win games, even a playoff game or two as he's proven.

Also Porter 102 pass attempts last season. Glenn 488. So that hardly seems to me as splitting snaps. 80% of Porter snap came in garbage time when the games were out of reach.