Sketchyt, the misconception here is that the camp is actually the whole movement... it isn't. I love what occupy stands for but I'm not a fan of some of the methods.
Back in October I realized that I could just sit back and dismiss the whole movement for the same reasons everyone else does. Then I realized that I could complain and badmouth or I could help. I could influence it for the better. I am doing so in every way I can think of. For what it's worth it has also influenced me for the better!
What influences you for the better? What inspires you? What makes you care about the tired stranger next to you on the C-train? What gives you hope?
Everyone, anyone, answer these questions. I want to know.
"Frankly though the "issue" is so broad that its impossible to have any tangible impact or results."
I don't agree with you there. Human rights are human rights. If we are participating in the violation of human rights, we can do better.
"First of all did you know that Wal-Mart (WMT) has a supply chain code of conduct that specifically works to support workers rights, wages, no child labour, labour conditions, etc.?"
"There seems to be a romantic notion of small business being good and big business bad. Well here is a consideration: small business does everything it can to become big business! Thats the point. I also laugh because where do you draw the line between small and big business? If a guy works hard and expands to two cities is he "off the list"? Its a silly idea. Tim Hortons would likely be a bad company now, but when it started it would've been fine...even though its still selling coffee and doughnuts."
Big business isn't necessarily bad... except when it's bad. I'll drink Tim Hortons if I'm desperate for a caffeine fix but the stuff tastes awful. I prefer Good Earth... Also a chain you'll note, but one which serves high quality fair trade beans.
It's just about consciousness and choices. I don't see what the problem is with that.
I don't know if you read all of that? It shows clearly that less than 1% of their suppliers failed audits. It also showed that the number of unannounced audits increased through the years in that report. Were there concerns, sure. But the standard isn't perfection. The point is that they have made large steps in doing exactly what you want to see done. This isn't even to mention that this report is over 4 years old. If they were making that kind of progress in 2007 then we can only assume that things are still better in 2011.
Fair trade and such is great. There are dozens of outlets (both local and multi-national) where you can buy these products. Camping in a park is not necessary to let people know that this option is available.
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Slava, Thanks. I'm kinda getting used to being unpopular!
I've spent the last six weeks listening, reading, spell checking and publishing the many messages to the point where I am actually able to break it down to one thing. It's a quite big thing really so it's no wonder the message seems confused and lost on many people. But this is it in a nutshell: Human rights are suffering monstrous abuse due to an undue focus on profit motive.
Many people think we are saying corporations are bad, money is bad, having to work is bad, banks are bad... well some people do think that. I don't. What I think is that we really, REALLY need to think harder about what we are supporting with our hard work and money. Because some of the things we are supporting are killing people... and hurting us. You buy a pair of sneakers at Wal-Mart, you get a good deal, right? But the people who made those sneakers were in all likelihood paid incredibly poorly, so their quality of life suffers. YOU get a crappy pair of sneakers, so your quality of life suffers. Thanks to everyone wanting to save a buck or two, the independent shoe store owner down the street went out of business, so his quality of life and that of his family suffers. Then he has to go work at Wal-Mart because his business tanked and he hates it so the customers suffer!
This is one example. My feeling is that what this is all about is admitting to ourselves that we are participating in a system that is stacked against nearly everyone in some way. And then find ways to withdraw support for that system. I read today that if the "Occupy Christmas" movement succeeded in curtailing the xmas spending frenzy it would cause global economic disaster! I think it's a little scary that so much depends on this season's spendaholicism that the economy would bottom out without it. What do you think?
I just had to respond to this hilarious Wal-Mart example. I know Slava has already torn it to shreds, but I wanted to share a story of my own experience with workers in Cambodia. I spent some time there and in speaking with a guide, who became a friend, about work the top point he made was that the factory jobs were the most sought after, and that while some factories were better than others in terms of conditions landing a job in one drastically improved the quality of life for the worker and his or her family. Of course standards need to be implemented and enforced, much like the system Wal-Mart already uses, but the 'buy from the guy down the street' argument pretends that we don't live in a global market.
For the record I can't stand Wal-Mart, not because of the labor or the quality of goods, but because entering the store makes me want to punch things, mostly myself.
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Ummm, Slava? It shows that ONLY 1% failed despite up to 41% having high risk violations. So in other words, yeah they are violating worker rights but whatevs, we're buying.
???
Thats because if they get an orange they have 15 days to submit corrective action. That means that almost all of them made arrangements to correct the mistakes/problems. Great news for everyone!
Ummm, Slava? It shows that ONLY 1% failed despite up to 41% having high risk violations. So in other words, yeah they are violating worker rights but whatevs, we're buying.
???
So this whole "occupy"movement is about improving working conditions overseas?
I think most occupiers are just confused and its unguided frustration in all of it now. The original OWS was poignant, had meaning, and was something that affected those people in somewhat of a direct manner. Canadian occupiers and the others seem to just try to jumble it into world peace and hide behind this veil of the 99% bull####. Until an occupier can lay out a concise and clear view of what they're so angry about, they don't deserve this attention.
There are millions of charities that benefit the poor and "watchdogs" that watch work conditions overseas....just seems so...redundant if that's the true message.
btw, here is a link to a report that gives Wal-Mart the highest rating in the study, which is impressive considering the scope of their operation. After this I'm done talking about Wal-Mart....we should steer this back to OWS and/or occupy olympic plaza rather than the ethical standing of one corporation. http://www.treehugger.com/style/swea...ply-chain.html
Burn, no one gets muzzled for discussing issues. If you look at the comment boards there is a LOT of dissent, discussion and refinement of ideas going on there and several self professed non-supporters taking part in civil conversation with us. And we are all learning.
People do however sometimes get the sharp side of my keyboard for repeating ignorant and irrelevant remarks. I mean seriously, you come on OUR blog and tell us you are tired of reading it? So again, don't come then! If I came here and said I was tired of reading about hockey exactly what would you say to me?
I joined the FB page originally to defend myself because Joanne Costello started a topic specifically to attack me.
I never called anyone any names, never argued with anyone, I was respectful; yet I got booted because someone made a judgement call.... that I wasn't a "true supporter".
They (as in collective group of occupiers) supposedly don't like labels or judging people; yet their actions are completely opposite.
I was tarred and feathered based on who I'm married to.
Last edited by First Lady; 12-06-2011 at 09:36 PM.
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The whole occupy movement is too large and unfocused to be any good to anyone. They claim to be protesting for so many different reasons. The focus seems to be to "keep the dialogue going", but no amount of dialogue will ever change anything.
If you see an issue in the world, focus on one aspect and try to make a difference.
You see problems with homelessness? Get involved with social awareness groups, volunteer at homeless shelters, lobby local MLAs/MPs etc.
You want to provide clean drinking water for everyone? Educate yourself on the issues, volunteer with appropriate organizations, research current technologies etc.
You see injustices within politics? Get involved again. Nobody becomes a MLA or MP overnight. Start, you guessed it, volunteering and being involved in the political process anyway you can. The Morgans seem to really grind occupiers gears and most don't agree with their politics, but they have made themselves involved.
Making a real change, is much harder than holding a public space hostage.
Idnami, I'd like to read your response to this post, specifically the suggestion to 'act' rather than talk.
So this whole "occupy"movement is about improving working conditions overseas?
Also the local shoe business owner. Keep the shoe business owner in business by reducing materialistic consumption, and increase the cost of goods by closing down the factories in third world countries. Then we'll all feel better about ourselves, and our quality of life will improve.
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Also the local shoe business owner. Keep the shoe business owner in business by reducing materialistic consumption, and increase the cost of goods by closing down the factories in third world countries. Then we'll all feel better about ourselves, and our quality of life will improve.
Screw that, those little Indonesian kids make some awesome shoes. If we have to start paying them more than .13 cents an hour I'll be pissed. I mean, what's the point of child labour if you have to pay them minimum wage?
Screw that, those little Indonesian kids make some awesome shoes. If we have to start paying them more than .13 cents an hour I'll be pissed. I mean, what's the point of child labour if you have to pay them minimum wage?
no way! I'd love to have a hippie being paid $50/hour to put together my shoes that I'd gladly pay $1500 for. It's not like I need to use that money for anything important like food or medicine under an ideal Occupier society
I think the most amusing post on the Occupy facebook that Jane posted was the person whining about how Alberta is the most backwards province in Canada because of this decision. Highly amusing given courts in Ontario and BC (the hippie capital of the Western Hemisphere) already kicked their squatters out.
Idnami - I respect that you believe in something, and I respect your willingness to take a stand for it. But man, cut these fools loose. The problem with the Occupy crowd is that they have poisoned the well. Nobody will ever take anything associated with "Occupy Calgary" seriously because these people made the entire protest about themselves. And if there is one thing people hate, it is those with a sense of entitlement, and a me me me me attitude.
Even putting aside the fact that many of the demands made across the Occupy Canada are pipe dreams and fairy dust, they would have held some level of support if their message was actually something anyone could respect. But as much as these people pay lip service to financial issues, governmental issues, anti-consumerism, anti-globalism, even human rights, when push came to shove, these people proved they were about themselves and nothing else.
The heart of Occupy Calgary was a demand for free condoms, free electricity and the right to drive the rest of Calgary's citizens out of a public park meant for everyone. We even see it in how they handle their facebook and web profiles: If you aren't completely on board with them you aren't good enough to be one of them. When the media dared to cast a critical eye toward them, they chose ro boycott the media, then whine about how they weren't getting fair coverage. Such pure and utter selfishness wrapped in immense delusions. Hopefully the final death knell will sound at 2PM Friday. OC is now basically an insular facebook group, and nothing more. And that, my friend, is about as useful as an internet petition.
Last edited by Resolute 14; 12-06-2011 at 10:57 PM.
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I joined the FB page originally to defend myself because Joanne Costello started a topic specifically to attack me.
I never called anyone any names, never argued with anyone, I was respectful; yet I got booted because someone made a judgement call.... that I wasn't a "true supporter".
They (as in collective group of occupiers) supposedly don't like labels or judging people; yet their actions are completely opposite.
I was tarred and feathered based on who I'm married to.
You poor thing. And did absolutely no one attempt to welcome you and engage you in discussion?
This thread here existed already. No one needed your husband as an excuse not to trust you. At least a few people treated you as a human being even in full knowledge of the kind of thing you have to say about us.
I refer to the blog, which I administrate, which is not private nor closed. The one you keep posting links to.
Starting in January, Mount Royal University assistant professor Roberta Lexier will begin teaching the Occupy Wall Street course offered through the general education faculty.
You poor thing. And did absolutely no one attempt to welcome you and engage you in discussion?
This thread here existed already. No one needed your husband as an excuse not to trust you. At least a few people treated you as a human being even in full knowledge of the kind of thing you have to say about us.
I refer to the blog, which I administrate, which is not private nor closed. The one you keep posting links to.
Honestly, if that's the way you're going to engage here then we can do without you.
As for the kinds of things she had to say, they're supported by a pretty damn large portion of people from what I can tell. The fact they pulled the 'open dialogue unless we don't like the dialogue' move speaks volumes.
Says as I say not as I do right? Nice mantra.
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