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Originally Posted by Wormius
A turn-style should make it impossible for people to inadvertently cross or get shoved into the path of a train. I doubt this would cost much to implement.
I am sure a debate could be made about the cost/savings of elevating or burying the C-train along 7th Ave or wherever traffic is impeded. It just seems ridiculous that the train is underground right up until 25th Ave where it screws up traffic at that intersection.
Wouldn't a turnstyle also make it impossible for people who have begun to cross to get off of the tracks?
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In no way are these devices hazardous to your health. YOU are responsible for being aware of your surroundings and acting accordingly. If you wrap your head in a blindfold before crossing the road, the blindfold is not responsible for the result.
Well, I disagree.
It appears there is a woman that just got plowed and killed by a train, because she was listening to her iPod, or fidgeting with her phone.
I am not saying ban them, but some people are just too careless and stupid to own one I guess.
However, using your example, of wearing a blindfold and crossing the street. If all of a sudden, it became internationally fasionable, to cross freeways, wearing a blindfold, and people were being mowed down in thousands as a result, I assure you, governments worldwide, would ban the use of blindfolds, while crossing freeways.
A turn-style should make it impossible for people to inadvertently cross or get shoved into the path of a train. I doubt this would cost much to implement.
I am sure a debate could be made about the cost/savings of elevating or burying the C-train along 7th Ave or wherever traffic is impeded. It just seems ridiculous that the train is underground right up until 25th Ave where it screws up traffic at that intersection.
Giant flashing lights, ringing bells and lowered gates make it pretty damn difficult to inadvertently cross.
How much more of an inconvenience does having the C-train at ground level going to cause before the city does something about it? It's not just the tragic death of somebody, its the cluster-f* aftermath for everybody from family to other riders on the train, to the costs involved, police having to deal with that instead of something else, shutting down service of the train, etc. etc.
I think sadly we're at a point in time where these so-called obvious signs aren't so obvious anymore - everybody wearing headphones, looking down at their phones, etc. and add that to the c-train not being that safe at the best of times. I just don't think you should be able to get that close to a moving train.
I have also heard that you can be sucked in and pulled towards the train.
Its actually more common, I believe, for people to become disoriented from the motion of the train and fall into them - their inner ear and brain get confused because the scenery is moving but they aren't. I don't think the C-Train moves anywhere near fast enough for people to get sucked in.
On another note, people need to realize they shouldn't even be relying on lights and bells to announce the presence of a train. The railroad has an old saying, "train time is anytime" - always assume there is a train nearby if you are approaching tracks.
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It appears there is a woman that just got plowed and killed by a train, because she was listening to her iPod, or fidgeting with her phone.
I am not saying ban them, but some people are just too careless and stupid to own one I guess.
However, using your example, of wearing a blindfold and crossing the street. If all of a sudden, it became internationally fasionable, to cross freeways, wearing a blindfold, and people were being mowed down in thousands as a result, I assure you, governments worldwide, would ban the use of blindfolds, while crossing freeways.
So, you would fault the iPod over the person who was wearing it?
How much more of an inconvenience does having the C-train at ground level going to cause before the city does something about it? It's not just the tragic death of somebody, its the cluster-f* aftermath for everybody from family to other riders on the train, to the costs involved, police having to deal with that instead of something else, shutting down service of the train, etc. etc.
I think sadly we're at a point in time where these so-called obvious signs aren't so obvious anymore - everybody wearing headphones, looking down at their phones, etc. and add that to the c-train not being that safe at the best of times. I just don't think you should be able to get that close to a moving train.
A few hundred million dollars more (and that's just for a small section). You make it seem like it's as easy as digging a hole and dropping some tracks in it.
So, you would fault the iPod over the person who was wearing it?
No, I wouldn't.
And I never said that.
But there is no denying the fact, that there have been senseless deaths because of them, based on sheer carelessness and stupidity on the part of the users.
I use an iPod and will continue to. On a plane, at the gym, just hanging out in a park. I just would never wear it walking down a busy street, riding my bicycle, or a motorcycle. All three scenarios are recipes for disaster.
Albeit it looks like this particular scenario is not related, sometimes you have to wonder if you need to protect people from their own stupidity.
This particular crossing, it may be the level pedestrian crossing in the city where it is hardest to miss the signals and miss seeing the train coming. It has far more flashing lights than any other crossing that I've seen ( certainly way more that any of the other crossings on 36th street), and the way it is designed actually forces pedestrians to physically walk towards the direction the train is coming immediately before crossing the tracks, no matter which side of either track you are on.
All of the level crossings in the city should be rebuilt to the same standard.
I wonder if they could install some flashing red lights right into the ground, for people who are looking down?
Wouldn't a turnstyle also make it impossible for people who have begun to cross to get off of the tracks?
I would have to assume that the C-train operator wouldn't start the train until the path was clear, unless the C-train operator was having a Grand Theft Auto fantasy.
Location: In my office, at the Ministry of Awesome!
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Originally Posted by Wormius
I would have to assume that the C-train operator wouldn't start the train until the path was clear, unless the C-train operator was having a Grand Theft Auto fantasy.
That doesn't make a whole lot of sense.
Trains come from both directions so trains arean't always leaving from a station.
What if I'm at the banff trail station heading west, and a train is coming from the north?
I pass the first gate, then boom, the lights come on and the gates lock, meaning I can't get off of the tracks, and there is a train coming at full speed towards the station?
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The railroad has an old saying, "train time is anytime" - always assume there is a train nearby if you are approaching tracks.
This. The Canadian Rail Operating Rules has ten cardinal safety rules on the front page, and one of them is "Always expect a movement, on any track, in any direction, at any time." Basically, if you are anywhere near train tracks you should exercise the utmost caution. Trains are big, fast, and surprisingly quiet - and they can't tell the different between you and a grape. Pay attention and don't screw around any time you are around them.
Operation Lifesaver is a railway safety advocacy group, and their motto is "Stop, look, listen, and live". Makes nothing but sense.
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A few hundred million dollars more (and that's just for a small section). You make it seem like it's as easy as digging a hole and dropping some tracks in it.
I have no doubt to the expense that it would require. I think it would be a better investment by the city than, say the airport tunnel. Having the train go through downtown at street level seems like a huge waste, when the street could be used for vehicles and not a cause of traffic backup whenever it goes through downtown. Anyway, I know none of this will ever come to fruition, its just me ranting about our flawed transit system get doesn't get fixed, but kludged together more and more.
I wonder if they could install some flashing red lights right into the ground, for people who are looking down?
I was going to post that earlier, but I figured I'd get told that they'd get covered by snow, to which I would have replied that they could also install waist high poles with LEDs on top that also blink (or even change colours), but why would people look at those if they already dont look at the big huge flashing lights.
Actually, the thing that gave me the idea was when I went to explore the red light district in Amsterdam. They have these poles with red lights on top that come up out of the ground at 10pm or something, to indicate that you're crossing into the area.
I don't know. It seems that no matter the safety measures taken, people always find a way to ignore them and get killed.
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That doesn't make a whole lot of sense.
Trains come from both directions so trains arean't always leaving from a station.
What if I'm at the banff trail station heading west, and a train is coming from the north?
I pass the first gate, then boom, the lights come on and the gates lock, meaning I can't get off of the tracks, and there is a train coming at full speed towards the station?
All right... fine.. two gates then. A one-way gate leaving the tracks, and a locking one to enter onto the tracks. I realize you could still open the one-way gate and get onto the tracks, but that would require some conscious decision making.
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Originally Posted by Wormius
I have no doubt to the expense that it would require. I think it would be a better investment by the city than, say the airport tunnel. Having the train go through downtown at street level seems like a huge waste, when the street could be used for vehicles and not a cause of traffic backup whenever it goes through downtown. Anyway, I know none of this will ever come to fruition, its just me ranting about our flawed transit system get doesn't get fixed, but kludged together more and more.
The downtown subway plans are in the works; and the current estimated cost is somewhere near $1.2 billion. So for what the airport tunnel will cost we still aren't even in the ballpark. Nevermind that the preliminary work is still being completed. They are in the process of removing utilities from under 8th ave (where the subway will go)- and that is being done as ongoing work as opposed to adding 10's or 100's of millions to the final bill.
Somewhat ironic that you mention the airport tunnel; as that is being built for the very same reason that you are complaining about today. Your complaint is that 40 years ago when they were planning the LRT system they lacked the forethought to put it underground or elevate it. Both had been planned; downtown was going to be a subway and 36 street was going to be elevated. However the cost was too high so it wasn't done. City council said "that's future Calgary's problem." (Actually the subway was started; there is a station under city hall.)
Now that future has caught up with us, and I agree it would have been great to have it done 35 years ago. Same thing with the airport tunnel; I likely won't see the day when it is 100% needed. 50 years from now Calgarians will just accept that moving around the NE is easy; especially getting to and from the "Inner Ring Road." (What we call Stoney Trail today.)
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I moved here 2 years ago and I have lived in 2 different Canadian cities, but Calgary by far has the worst transit system. I think Calgary averages 2 deaths a year by someone getting hit by the C-train.
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