First-time New Car Buyer...what do I negotiate?

[SeeBass]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

My ex wife phoned up a second car dealer from the office of the first one on his desk phone and asked if they could beat his price, never seen a salesman so freaked out, women was a bitch but boy could she make a deal.

So I guess basically be a complete arsehole, treat them like dirt.

I would have been pretty upset too. What an insult and a complete lack of respect to the salespersons efforts.

If all customers acted that way car dealerships would be gone and we would be buying them online.

[Table 5]

Originally Posted by SeeBass

I would have been pretty upset too. What an insult and a complete lack of respect to the salespersons efforts.

If all customers acted that way car dealerships would be gone and we would be buying them online.

People always complain that salesmen are underhanded dicks, but then treat them the exact same way as soon as they have the opportunity. A little mutual respect would be good for everyone.

[Swarly]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

My ex wife phoned up a second car dealer from the office of the first one on his desk phone and asked if they could beat his price, never seen a salesman so freaked out, women was a bitch but boy could she make a deal.

So I guess basically be a complete arsehole, treat them like dirt.

Worst advice ever. I worked in car sales and have a good friend who works as a manager at a large dealership here in Calgary. If a customer acts like a prick you do the same right back, you have to match the customers actions otherwise you risk scaring off a jittery person or getting run over by the dick of a customer. I had a few customers pull that on me, I would tell them the sticker price is the best we can do and stop wasting my time with them. Most of them were back within the week.

The people who got the best deals were the people I liked, people who didn't treat the sales staff like dirt. I was amazed at how much stuff the dealership was willing to throw in or help out with for considerate customers.

Of course this all requires that you are shopping at a reasonable dealership not the slick underhanded 80's style lots.

[zarrell]

Originally Posted by Walks44

A couple of things I learned taking some negotiating training, is try to make the salesperson feel like he won, do this by having a set price in mind that you want to pay, i.e: If the price is $25k and you dont want to pay more than $23k then start your offer at $21k, so he feels that he got you up to the price you're comfurtable paying.

Never be satisfied with the deal, even when you go to pick up the keys, seem hesitent and almost willing to back out, you would be surprised what they'll include if you might back out at the last minute.

If your not 100% sure in making a decision, use a delay tactic, I might have to check with so-and-so first,or I really shouldnt makes this decision without consulting my wife,dad or mom, or bank. They might just concede or offer a further reduction to make that sale.

Try and get the best deal for yourself, whatever they offer they can do better!

I would agree with that, except if the price is 25k and you want to pay 23k, go ahead and offer 21k but don't budge. Ever. Be a stick in the mud, give the guy you're number and leave. It could take a few weeks to get the right price but you'll get it. The car dealership would rather sell a car at zero profit to them than not make a sale at all. The sales numbers themselves are of value to them.

[ericschand]

Originally Posted by troutman

I love when they have to leave the room to "talk to the manager".

That's when you leave the room too, or cubicles these days, and start poking around the other cars. Opening this, pushing that, and so on. They'll come back.

The pressure one I like, experienced at a Calgary dealership again, "No, this is the [sticker] price, we don't discount at all." Then the manager comes with the sales guy and they block me from the exit, while repeating I should buy the car, it's great, and they'll offer great service, etc. If they do that, get up, stand, move about (ie. keep in charge of the transaction).

Carcostcanada is a good idea, I know a few people that used it. They all had about 3%, one had 2%, over invoice, no extra hassles. Very straightforward, and all are happy with how it worked out. Don't settle immediately with the first one who contacts you after you get the report. Tell them you are going to call others armed with carcostcanada, and actually do that. After this, then you decide who you want to deal with, even if it's the first one.

ers

[3 Justin 3]

Dealer's don't really make that much on a car, so when you see a sticker price (this is for new cars, used cars is a different story), so if you see $25k their cost is probably like $22k or something; this has already been mentioned in the thread. Like zarrell said though, a lot of the times they have to meet sales quotes so they'll let a car go for basically no profit.

The best advise has already been said, but i'll reiterate: "walk away". Always be prepared to walk, they'll be the ones phoning you in the end.

Also, try and get extras thrown in, they're virtually free to manufacture and $10,000 worth of upgrades usually means "true" value is like a grand if that.

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by Byrns

Get a carcostcanada report, then offer the dealer 2.5-3 over invoice. I did everything over email when I bought my RAV4, and made sure it was the final on the road price before driving to the dealership.

Weird, I always thought you were a dude.

[simmer2]

Originally Posted by fotze

Who is the sales guy at North Hill?

I am dealing with the manager directly, Keith Hill.

Thanks everyone for your inout, dedinitely has given me something to think about. I like the suggestion of checking out the online site, and being prepared to walk away is definitely a good move.

Going for a test drive today, and I know he wants me to commit...I will see what I can get him to include today...walk away, then see what else I can get.

[THE SCUD]

go to carcostcanada.com (CCC) and buy a membership. It's worth it to know exactly what the invoice is on that car and any secret rebates the dealer gets. You then do this easy math:

Invoice LESS ANY rebates that apply to you = Post-rebate Price. Add on Delivery (JUST delivery per CCC. That is your invoice price. Now take that and multiply by 1.025. Then re-do the calc at 1.03. That is the range you should work within. offer a few hundred below the 1.025 figure to open negociations, but don't agree to anything over the 1.03 figure. Make sure that there are NO DEALER FEES OR ANYTHING beyond The invoice x 1.025 + Delivery. NOTHING. If there are, tell him you'll go to Lethbridge.

When I bought my wife a Mazda several years ago the Cgy dealers were pricks. I went to Milestone Mazda in Lethbridge and they were $1,500 cheaper and way nicer to deal with.

If you'd like - do the above, get a purchase agreement and then scan it to me or tell CP what's on it and we can tell you if they are hiding any fees.

[T@T]

If my memory is correct I think I have bought 9 new vehicles in my life so far and the last 8 I have looked at the MRSP sticker,took 15% off and told them this is what I'll pay today...everytime I ended up with at least 10% off. As far as I'm concerned dealships don't really care about what they make on the sale of a new car as they make the real money on the service.

Just bought a new one last month, got the full 15% off I asked for on a 2011 and free winter tires to boot...which I sold for $800.00

[Table 5]

Any tips for buying a used car from a dealer? Especially a CPO How much markup do they typically put on? Seems like there would be more room to play with.

[THE SCUD]

Originally Posted by Table 5

Any tips for buying a used car from a dealer? Especially a CPO How much markup do they typically put on? Seems like there would be more room to play with.

That's pretty tough in Canada (side note, I thought you lived in NYC, are you in CGY now?). In the US Edmunds.com TMV calc for used cars is GREAT.

Here in Canada, I would go to toyota et al's site, put the car you're after into their BLACK BOOK trade in valuation and at least get an idea what they probably paid for the trade. Then add a few $K for reconditioning and profit and voilà, your offer.

[ericschand]

BTW, there is a free alternative to carcostcanada. I checked a few cars out with carcostcanada, and then went over to carsaver.ca, and the numbers were always the same.

Free alternative (http://carsaver.ca).

Good Luck,
ers

[Rathji]

^

That link is dead.

Edit: Fine now. Darn tubes getting plugged.

[kirant]

I think a good idea is to sit back a bit and listen for when the dealer starts trying to upsell you...all dealers I've met eventually do. In my (somewhat limited) experience, as soon as they start trying to sell you on better models, they're much more open to negotiation. My theory is that they feel close to a sale and will be more willing to make a deal when it happens.

[Bill Bumface]

Originally Posted by T@T

free winter tires to boot...which I sold for $800.00

Noooooooooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[THE SCUD]

Based on carsaver.ca (which works):

INVOICE MSRP
$18,752 $19,995

On a Sport GS Skyactive HB.

So there is $1,250 in profit in the car, BEFORE any rebates. You'll have to find out if there are any rebates available, I believe Mazda has some on the 2012 Mazda3 already.

Also, be sure to get the breakdown of the price in WRITING. Do not negotiate on 'payments per month'

Based on the above I would do the following:

Your offer:

$19,000 + $1,595 delivery + 5% GST+ $100 AC Tax = $21,725 is my offer, ON THE ROAD. I want to see a pruchase agreement that shows $21,725 final price. Don't worry how they get there, as long as that's the final price. If you're financing, THEN do the math yourself to determine what the price per month should be, given the rates they give you.

[THE SCUD]

Originally Posted by THE SCUD

Based on carsaver.ca (which works):

INVOICE MSRP
$18,752 $19,995

On a Sport GS Skyactive HB.

So there is $1,250 in profit in the car, BEFORE any rebates. You'll have to find out if there are any rebates available, I believe Mazda has some on the 2012 Mazda3 already.

Also, be sure to get the breakdown of the price in WRITING. Do not negotiate on 'payments per month'

Based on the above I would do the following:

Your offer:

$19,000 + $1,595 delivery + 5% GST+ $100 AC Tax = $21,725 is my offer, ON THE ROAD. I want to see a pruchase agreement that shows $21,725 final price. Don't worry how they get there, as long as that's the final price. If you're financing, THEN do the math yourself to determine what the price per month should be, given the rates they give you.

Further to the above:

Once you get that final offer of $21,725 (or whatever you come to), go t http://autos.yahoo.com/car-finance/m...alculator.html


put in $21,725 as the vehicle sales price, a zip of 59484 (this is important, you need to chose a state with zero sales tax, you already included gst in the above calc).

with a 5% finance rate over 60 months (5 yrs) this is $409 per month, as an example.

if you're doing a trade in, that's a whole other issue, of course. For the purpose of calculating the payment (to make sure the dealer isnt hiding anything on you), reduce the purchase price by the DP

[Byrns]

Originally Posted by Sliver

Weird, I always thought you were a dude.

[simmer2]

Originally Posted by THE SCUD

Further to the above:

Once you get that final offer of $21,725 (or whatever you come to), go t http://autos.yahoo.com/car-finance/m...alculator.html


put in $21,725 as the vehicle sales price, a zip of 59484 (this is important, you need to chose a state with zero sales tax, you already included gst in the above calc).

with a 5% finance rate over 60 months (5 yrs) this is $409 per month, as an example.

if you're doing a trade in, that's a whole other issue, of course. For the purpose of calculating the payment (to make sure the dealer isnt hiding anything on you), reduce the purchase price by the DP

Thank you a ton for your input man, you went above and beyond what I was expecting. Just wanted to write that, didn't feel the Thanks button was enough!