Discourse on iPhone 4S & iOS 5.

[TorqueDog]

Originally Posted by Russic

I couldn't disagree more. Ya it sucks not having one feature, but it does many things. After half a day with it I already wouldn't want to not have it. Extremely useful things I've done so far:

- "Find my wife" (pulls in info from the Find My Friends app and pins their location on a map)

- "What am I doing tomorrow/on the weekend/next week?" (brings up you calendar events for the time frame mentioned)

- "Will it snow/rain/be sunny tomorrow?" (very fast weather access)

- "Remind me to leave the stroller when I leave this location" (I'm always forgetting to leave my mom the stroller when she baby-sits, and this triggers a reminder when I get about 0.5 km away)

- "remind me I need gas at 9 am tomorrow" (going to the airport, can't be forgetting that)

- "book lunch with dad next wednesday at 2"

- *email comes in while driving* "read latest email message".

My greatest fears have been confirmed; people are becoming more and more helpless. "Remind me I need gas at 9 am tomorrow"?? Dude, the fuel gauge on the car should tell you that you need to refuel, you really need your phone to tell you this stuff? More importantly, you really needed the capability of a voice command processor to do it for you? Some of this just seems so damn trivial. "What's the weather going to be like?" Click the weather icon. "What am I doing tomorrow?" Click the calendar icon. This just seems like such a ridiculous gimmick to me.

I mean, I get some of the benefits of voice recognition; I have voice prompts that allow me to have texts dictated to me and allow me to answer them while I'm driving, but as far as I'm concerned, that's an extension of the capability of hands-free.

Honestly, who wants to have a conversation with their phone? The unfortunate thing is that - because Apple made it - Siri is going to catch fire and everyone will be scrambling to make similar AIs for their devices.

The interfaces on phones have advanced so that everything was quickly accessible with one or two clicks at the most. Now you have to spend five seconds actually speaking aloud what you want the phone to do? The most common defense will be "Well how else am I supposed to do this while driving?" How about just paying attention to the road?

[HotHotHeat]

Originally Posted by TorqueDog

My greatest fears have been confirmed; people are becoming more and more helpless. "Remind me I need gas at 9 am tomorrow"?? Dude, the fuel gauge on the car should tell you that you need to refuel, you really need your phone to tell you this stuff? More importantly, you really needed the capability of a voice command processor to do it for you? Some of this just seems so damn trivial. "What's the weather going to be like?" Click the weather icon. "What am I doing tomorrow?" Click the calendar icon. This just seems like such a ridiculous gimmick to me.

I mean, I get some of the benefits of voice recognition; I have voice prompts that allow me to have texts dictated to me and allow me to answer them while I'm driving, but as far as I'm concerned, that's an extension of the capability of hands-free.

Honestly, who wants to have a conversation with their phone? The unfortunate thing is that - because Apple made it - Siri is going to catch fire and everyone will be scrambling to make similar AIs for their devices.

The interfaces on phones have advanced so that everything was quickly accessible with one or two clicks at the most. Now you have to spend five seconds actually speaking aloud what you want the phone to do? The most common defense will be "Well how else am I supposed to do this while driving?" How about just paying attention to the road?

This is what it looks like when technology leaves you behind.

[FanIn80]

Originally Posted by TorqueDog

Honestly, who wants to have a conversation with their phone? The unfortunate thing is that - because Apple made it - Siri is going to catch fire and everyone will be scrambling to make similar AIs for their devices.

You're absolutely right. What a pain in the ass it is for Apple to force other manufacturers to find ways to make their products easier to use.

Personally, I think we should all just go back to banging rocks together. Mind you, someone will just wind up inventing a lighter rock that's much easier to bang against the other rocks, and then we'll be right back in this boat all over again...

[TorqueDog]

Originally Posted by HotHotHeat

This is what it looks like when technology leaves you behind.

Hah. I'm probably the last person on this forum you could say technology has 'left behind'. However, I'm also one of those who doesn't take to things I perceive as gimmicks very well, and while I applaud Apple for finally producing a voice recognition engine that allows greater flexibility in commands, you'll have to excuse me if I find our increasing reliance on technology for some of the most simplistic things approaching ridiculous.

Originally Posted by FanIn80

You're absolutely right. What a pain in the ass it is for Apple to force other manufacturers to find ways to make their products easier to use.

Personally, I think we should all just go back to banging rocks together. Mind you, someone will just wind up inventing a lighter rock that's much easier to bang against the other rocks, and then we'll be right back in this boat all over again...

Congratulations on missing the point. And please tell me what is easier about saying "What's the weather like tomorrow?" as opposed to the than clicking "Weather" on your front screen? 3 seconds to say versus 1 second to click the button on the screen.

[Yeah_Baby]

Originally Posted by TorqueDog

My greatest fears have been confirmed; people are becoming more and more helpless. "Remind me I need gas at 9 am tomorrow"?? Dude, the fuel gauge on the car should tell you that you need to refuel, you really need your phone to tell you this stuff? More importantly, you really needed the capability of a voice command processor to do it for you? Some of this just seems so damn trivial. "What's the weather going to be like?" Click the weather icon. "What am I doing tomorrow?" Click the calendar icon. This just seems like such a ridiculous gimmick to me.

I mean, I get some of the benefits of voice recognition; I have voice prompts that allow me to have texts dictated to me and allow me to answer them while I'm driving, but as far as I'm concerned, that's an extension of the capability of hands-free.

Honestly, who wants to have a conversation with their phone? The unfortunate thing is that - because Apple made it - Siri is going to catch fire and everyone will be scrambling to make similar AIs for their devices.

The interfaces on phones have advanced so that everything was quickly accessible with one or two clicks at the most. Now you have to spend five seconds actually speaking aloud what you want the phone to do? The most common defense will be "Well how else am I supposed to do this while driving?" How about just paying attention to the road?

Ladies and Gentlemen, John Connor posts on CP.

[TorqueDog]

SkyNet became self-aware on October 4th, 2011. It then renamed itself Siri.

Really though, this is technology that is going to make you spend more time using your phone. Great for Apple, but really, I appreciate an interface that allows me to spend as little time on my phone as possible while getting as much information/as much done as I desire. Nothing about iOS (which I have, I have an iPhone 4) makes that easy since you need an app to do ANYTHING and none of the apps interface with each other making communication take that much longer. Oh, friend isn't on Facebook? Now I have to back out of Facebook and go into the Messages app to send them a message that way. What's worse is that nothing about Siri changes this fact.

I have a philosophy when designing messaging environments and it applies to the time spent on my phone: As much as necessary, as little as possible.

[Flames0910]

Congratulations on missing the point. And please tell me what is easier about saying "What's the weather like tomorrow?" as opposed to the than clicking "Weather" on your front screen? 3 seconds to say versus 1 second to click the button on the screen.

I think you're missing the point. It's about making it accessible in whatever way is most convenient. Sometimes it's easier to type a text message out, sometimes it's not.

The car is one example, but it's not the only one. When I'm lying in bed and receive a text message in the morning I don't want to stare at a bright screen. and type out a response. I would be much more likely to press one button and dictate a message. Same with getting the weather or seeing what I've got on the docket for the day.

Another example is anytime you're doing sports. I like to ski but fumbling with my phone is difficult when it's 30 below. Interacting by voice? Much easier. Your one second suddenly becomes a full minute when I have to take off my mitts.

In short, Apple is thinking about other use cases where interacting with the device can be cumbersome and attempting to provide some relief. I think that's kind of great.

[TorqueDog]

Originally Posted by Flames0910

I think you're missing the point. It's about making it accessible in whatever way is most convenient. Sometimes it's easier to type a text message out, sometimes it's not.

The car is one example, but it's not the only one. When I'm lying in bed and receive a text message in the morning I don't want to stare at a bright screen. and type out a response. I would be much more likely to press one button and dictate a message. Same with getting the weather or seeing what I've got on the docket for the day.

Another example is anytime you're doing sports. I like to ski but fumbling with my phone is difficult when it's 30 below. Interacting by voice? Much easier. Your one second suddenly becomes a full minute when I have to take off my mitts.

In short, Apple is thinking about other use cases where interacting with the device can be cumbersome and attempting to provide some relief. I think that's kind of great.

You missed the part where I said voice-based text messaging is a good thing. I use it myself when I'm in the car over the onboard Bluetooth system. If I get a text message when I'm in bed and I don't want to stare at the screen, I don't. I wait until I actually feel like replying. Otherwise I couldn't be arsed. Important information is conveyed via phone call. Useless fluff that I participate in but doesn't generally impact me is usually delivered via text.

And sports? Man, you're doing something exciting, why are you messing with your phone? This is like people who go to the bar then stare into their phones all night. Maybe I'm a little old fashioned, which for someone who is technically inclined and has a very technically involved job is a bit weird, but I just don't get it.

Advanced voice recognition = good, because it allows a wider range of voice commands to accomplish the same tasks, which means that you're no longer at the mercy of a specific command list. But the whole "tell your phone to do anything and it does it" thing still feels like a gimmick. And it barely works in Canada. And it's the result of Apple pulling one of their usual dick moves on iOwners, though you'd think they'd be used to getting the shaft by now.

[sclitheroe]

Originally Posted by TorqueDog

My greatest fears have been confirmed; people are becoming more and more helpless. "Remind me I need gas at 9 am tomorrow"?? Dude, the fuel gauge on the car should tell you that you need to refuel, you really need your phone to tell you this stuff? More importantly, you really needed the capability of a voice command processor to do it for you? Some of this just seems so damn trivial. "What's the weather going to be like?" Click the weather icon. "What am I doing tomorrow?" Click the calendar icon. This just seems like such a ridiculous gimmick to me.

I mean, I get some of the benefits of voice recognition; I have voice prompts that allow me to have texts dictated to me and allow me to answer them while I'm driving, but as far as I'm concerned, that's an extension of the capability of hands-free.

Honestly, who wants to have a conversation with their phone? The unfortunate thing is that - because Apple made it - Siri is going to catch fire and everyone will be scrambling to make similar AIs for their devices.

The interfaces on phones have advanced so that everything was quickly accessible with one or two clicks at the most. Now you have to spend five seconds actually speaking aloud what you want the phone to do? The most common defense will be "Well how else am I supposed to do this while driving?" How about just paying attention to the road?

So what you're saying is you've been using Siri extensively, and this is the opinion for your particular use case that you've come to? Or are you just deriding something you haven't used?

The accessibility that this technology provides to low-vision or motor-impaired users alone should be enough to move Siri out of the gimmick category in anyone's books.

On a broader scale, providing multi-modal access to the data and functionality that the iPhone offers is important - not every situation lends itself to hands and eyes on a screen.

Similarly, people process about the same information differently when working on it visually or audibly. In this regard, its an important step forward in human-computer interaction (not revolutionary - it's been around a long time, but never to the masses like this, and it also appears to be quite good even in its early development compared to previous efforts).

Finally, calling out Apple on discontinuing the free Siri offering a dick move is just silly. They bought the technology fair and square. Siri had no paying customers prior to acquisition, so Apple owes them nothing. It happens all the time in the tech industry, and I bet I could easily come up with a list of 10 or more good technologies that were bought and either pulled off the market entirely, or rolled into for-profit products in the past couple of years.

[MrMastodonFarm]

Originally Posted by Russic

- "Find my wife" (pulls in info from the Find My Friends app and pins their location on a map)

God, that's creepy.

[silentsim]

anyone know if chinook or market has 16gb white's in? friend is looking for one!

[Mccree]

Is anyone having issues syncing their iPhone4 (either wireless or the normal way)? Mine get stuck on that last step and says"waiting for changes to be applied" Any suggestions?

[Jedi Ninja]

Originally Posted by MrMastodonFarm

God, that's creepy.

The creepy part is that it pulls up a map to Fotze's house when he says this.

[Russic]

Originally Posted by TorqueDog

My greatest fears have been confirmed; people are becoming more and more helpless. "Remind me I need gas at 9 am tomorrow"?? Dude, the fuel gauge on the car should tell you that you need to refuel, you really need your phone to tell you this stuff?

Even though you were a little condescending with this little chestnut I'm going to do my best to not offer it back (I'll most likely fail). I had to go to the airport this morning which is a 45 minute drive for me. If I need to be there at 10 and I leave at 9:15, letting my fuel gauge remind me I need gas is actually kind of a problem! You see, it would add roughly 10 minutes to my trip, which would make me late. If I make the reminder for 15 minutes before I leave I have time to get the gas.

More importantly, you really needed the capability of a voice command processor to do it for you?

Of course not. I also don't need an online calendar or a contact list in gmail, but I use them because I use technology to make my life easier. What confuses me about you is that you get that.

I appreciate an interface that allows me to spend as little time on my phone as possible while getting as much information/as much done as I desire.

That's what Siri is. You are arguing against the removal of several steps to make a process easier, yet you (quite rightly) feel making things easier for the user is important.

And please tell me what is easier about saying "What's the weather like tomorrow?" as opposed to the than clicking "Weather" on your front screen? 3 seconds to say versus 1 second to click the button on the screen.

Here we have what I feel is the biggest difference between us. Those 2 seconds are damn important to me. Needless clicks in a website don't necessarily add a lot of time to the navigation, but almost everybody finds them aggravating (oftentimes enough to never use the offending site again if they don't have to). Making a 3 second process a 1 second process is a very big deal to me.

Secondly, it's not 2 seconds. Just because I'm such a nerd, I did a test. I set up an appointment and timed myself (yes I have better things to do right now, but I'm arguing on the internet so it can wait). Results:
Siri - 16 seconds, 1 button tap
Traditional - 36 seconds, roughly 15 taps not including the actual typing of the words (home button --> unlock slider --> 4 digit passcode --> home button to escape app i was in --> tap on calendar --> tap on title field --> enter info --> tap on time --> enter info --> tap on reminder field --> tap done button).

Yes there are better apps than iCal to do this, but that's what most people use. The passcode is actually a big part of the puzzle. I have too much on my phone to ever go without it, but it adds a rather significant barrier to getting things done. Using Siri really drives this point home because you don't need to enter it.

Originally Posted by Titan

How often do you have to restate what you are asking for?

I was surprised. It certainly isn't dead-simple out the gate, but for me the problem was in the speed at which you have to string things together. It obviously tries to be very efficient, so if you leave gaps in your speech the mic turns off and it starts working. This is problematic if you don't think out your phrases. For instance if you say "text my wife tell her I'll be 15 minutes late (brief pause) ask her..." You're already screwed because the pause started the process. You can't even pause between "text my wife" and "tell her...". In my experience it works best to just drive through it.

The actual words themselves come through surprisingly well. There are of course hiccups along the way but nothing like I've seen with other tech.

[FlamesPuck12]

^^ Just curious, does Siri let you access information or let you store information when your iPhone is locked with a password?

Personally, I find it easy to use my fingers than to speak into a phone so Siri probably won't be of any benefit to me.

As for your weather app comparison, it takes 3 seconds for me to load the weather using traditional method. Click a button, slide to unlock, slide down to get the notification center which has the weather app.

[sclitheroe]

Originally Posted by FlamesPuck12

^^ Just curious, does Siri let you access information or let you store information when your iPhone is locked with a password?

You can have Siri be responsive pre-lock screen, or enforce requiring the passcode before engaging Siri; both are options

[Russic]

Originally Posted by FlamesPuck12

^^ Just curious, does Siri let you access information or let you store information when your iPhone is locked with a password?

Personally, I find it easy to use my fingers than to speak into a phone so Siri probably won't be of any benefit to me.

As for your weather app comparison, it takes 3 seconds for me to load the weather using traditional method. Click a button, slide to unlock, slide down to get the notification center which has the weather app.

You are correct, iOS 5 has made getting the weather incredibly simple. That is one task where Siri doesn't offer much advantage just because the weather is put so front and centre (same with stocks).

Yes, Siri lets you access info while locked. What info in general are you thinking?

[FlamesPuck12]

Originally Posted by Russic

You are correct, iOS 5 has made getting the weather incredibly simple. That is one task where Siri doesn't offer much advantage just because the weather is put so front and centre (same with stocks).

Yes, Siri lets you access info while locked. What info in general are you thinking?

Well I'm just wondering where the line is for Siri when it is password protected.

For example, can I send messages/emails while it is locked? Can I see my appointments for the day if its locked. That kinda stuff.

As for Siri, I think Siri might give you an advantage when you have to input using the keyboard such as sending a message. Personally I find it more of an effort to say a command so I rather just type it since I can type pretty fast with high accuracy but for those who find typing slow or too much effort then Siri is a good alternative, just not for everyone.

[MotoRacer]

Originally Posted by pylon

Will siri be coming to the regular iPhone 4 eventually? Does anyone know?

http://9to5mac.com/2011/10/14/siri-v...phone-4-video/

[Russic]

Originally Posted by FlamesPuck12

Well I'm just wondering where the line is for Siri when it is password protected.

For example, can I send messages/emails while it is locked? Can I see my appointments for the day if its locked. That kinda stuff.

As for Siri, I think Siri might give you an advantage when you have to input using the keyboard such as sending a message. Personally I find it more of an effort to say a command so I rather just type it since I can type pretty fast with high accuracy but for those who find typing slow or too much effort then Siri is a good alternative, just not for everyone.

To answer your specific question, yes it can send messages/emails, and view/edit calendar entries while locked. I really like how you can tell it time periods for the calendar (what am I doing today/this week/this weekend).

Where the line is drawn can be confusing at times. For instance:

1) You can listen to a new text message, but you cannot have Siri read a previously read/listened to text message. It will read you a new text message and give the option to repeat it, but after that you can't access it anymore. It would be great if you could say "read me the last text message from my wife...".

2) Emails seem to be a barrier. You can send from it just fine, but viewing a list of new emails requires unlock for some reason

3) Siri will not read an email to you which is unfortunate.

You can pretty much do everything else while locked. I would imagine as Siri develops those things will change.