I shall try to piss off everyone with one post here.
The Doors while an ok band would have been way less succesfull had they been from the UK, they were an LA band at a time US rock music was dominated by the British, as such there was a certain level of patriotic chauvanism about their promotion, they really weren't any better than Procul Harem or the Moody Blues.
Bruce Lee would not have become a mythic charachter had he not died, he would have probably followed a Norris, Seagal or Van Dam career curve just because martial art films are limited in their following, and his acting chops were at best ok. Had he made Fist of Fury 2, 3, 4, and 5 we would not view him in the same hallowed light.
Tupac was a passable rapper but rap is an industry that limits its performers to one or two succesfull albums in order to keep on exploiting young illeducated black kids and the young equally dumb white kids who buy their product, therefore Tupac and Biggie would have faded quicker than a mayfly had they not died, replaced by 50 Cent and Eminem regardless, who have since been replaced by etc etc etc.
Someone who did die too early, Otis Redding, who while he didn't die young, did die at the peak of his artistic powers and had he lived would have altered the direction of black music in the late 60's and 70's.
When the Doors and other rock bands such as the Velvet Underground, Janis Joplin, etc arrived on the scene, British groups such as the Beatles were non factor boy bands ( a couple of exceptions with the Who and Hendrix) and didn't catch up for a couple of years. The Doors being from LA was unusual though as most of the music was coming from San Francisco and New York.
I agree with you about Otis Redding, almost every song of his was orgasmic.
In the 60s Canada was a great place for music listening as we would get the best British and American groups when they were released while in Britain and the States, they were more provincial.
When the Doors and other rock bands such as the Velvet Underground, Janis Joplin, etc arrived on the scene, British groups such as the Beatles were non factor boy bands ( a couple of exceptions with the Who and Hendrix) and didn't catch up for a couple of years. The Doors being from LA was unusual though as most of the music was coming from San Francisco and New York.
I agree with you about Otis Redding, almost every song of his was orgasmic.
In the 60s Canada was a great place for music listening as we would get the best British and American groups when they were released while in Britain and the States, they were more provincial.
No offence Vulcan but the Doors, Janis etc were all 67' on,the absolute height of the Sgt Pepper era Beatles who then essentially handed the crown over to the Stones in 69 who dominated the harder edged sound that rock was edging into.
The Byrds and the Beach Boys were about the only competition the US could put up at the time, but they morphed into CSYN the N being Nash from the Hollies an effing brit!
I like the Doors I just think they would have been a 2nd tier band on classic rock radio, ala the Move or the Moody Blues had they been British and tried to make it out of London.
No offence Vulcan but the Doors, Janis etc were all 67' on,the absolute height of the Sgt Pepper era Beatles who then essentially handed the crown over to the Stones in 69 who dominated the harder edged sound that rock was edging into.
The Byrds and the Beach Boys were about the only competition the US could put up at the time, but they morphed into CSYN the N being Nash from the Hollies an effing brit!
I like the Doors I just think they would have been a 2nd tier band on classic rock radio, ala the Move or the Moody Blues had they been British and tried to make it out of London.
The Beatles were slow off the mark and were about on the level of AM wonders such as your mentioned Beach Boys. They weren't what my friends and I were listening to 65 to 67.
Anyone who questions SRV's talent has little idea what blues guitar is about. Just SICK skilled, a tragic loss. The only peer I would put in his league is Jimi Hendrix.
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Flacker For This Useful Post:
No offence Vulcan but the Doors, Janis etc were all 67' on,the absolute height of the Sgt Pepper era Beatles who then essentially handed the crown over to the Stones in 69 who dominated the harder edged sound that rock was edging into.
The Byrds and the Beach Boys were about the only competition the US could put up at the time, but they morphed into CSYN the N being Nash from the Hollies an effing brit!
I like the Doors I just think they would have been a 2nd tier band on classic rock radio, ala the Move or the Moody Blues had they been British and tried to make it out of London.
Your British bias is showing. Cali had a pretty diverse music scene in the 60's. Had the Door's been British, Jim wouldn't have been out of jail for more than a few days at a time. I agree with you, they wouldn't have been stars they would have been a little too much for the stiff upper lip.
I am the lizard king, I can do anything!
Cheerio!
The Following User Says Thank You to Flacker For This Useful Post:
The city forms - often physically, but not inevitably psychically - a circle. A Game. A ring of death with sex at its center. Dirve towards the outskirts of the city suburbs. At the edge discover zones of sophisticated vice and boredom, child prostitution. But in the grimy ring immediately surrounding the daylight business district exists the only real crowd life of our mound, the only street life, night life. Diseased specimens in dollar hotels, low boarding houses, bars, pawn shops, burlesques and brothels, in dying arcades which never die, in streets and streets of all-night cinemas.
When play dies it becomes the Game.
When sex dies it becomes Climax"
More favourite line:
"In the womb we are blind cave fish"
"The voyeur is masturbator, the mirror his badge, the window his prey"
Not to pick on you DFF but I hate it when people refer to addictions (alcohol or drugs) as diseases. Calling an addiction a disease really insults those who have diseases like cancer. It's not a disease, it is a cognitive behaviour disfunction.
Totally agree. I was posting in a hurry and trying to be concise.
__________________ I am in love with Montana. For other states I have admiration, respect, recognition, even some affection, but with Montana it is love." - John Steinbeck
Anyone who questions SRV's talent has little idea what blues guitar is about. Just SICK skilled, a tragic loss. The only peer I would put in his league is Jimi Hendrix.
Given a choice of going to see SRV, Hendrix or this guy I'll take Freddie King anyday, I aint knocking either of them them, just they both had a daddy.
In Stevie Ray Vaughans case he built a career out of essentially sounding like Freddie King but looking nicer and whiter, that said being able to sound like Freddie King is an amazing acomplishment in and of itself.
Last edited by afc wimbledon; 08-08-2011 at 06:55 PM.
If Oliver Stone didn't resurrect them with that movie 20 years after Jim Morrison died, they'd just be another 60's hippy-dippy band like Jefferson Airplane, with one song that everyone knows and that's about it.
Given a choice of going to see SRV, Hendrix or this guy I'll take Freddie King anyday, I aint knocking either of them them, just they both had a daddy.
No denying the Texas Cannonball either, just that you stated that SRV was over-rated, just can't dig that.
If Oliver Stone didn't resurrect them with that movie 20 years after Jim Morrison died, they'd just be another 60's hippy-dippy band like Jefferson Airplane, with one song that everyone knows and that's about it.
That boring piece of shaz did more to discredit than grow. You are quite young if you think that movie has anything to do with their popularity.
The Beatles were slow off the mark and were about on the level of AM wonders such as your mentioned Beach Boys. They weren't what my friends and I were listening to 65 to 67.
I don't think that's a fair contention at all. Here's a chronology of the artists' landmark albums and I think it's pretty clear that the Beatles and Beach Boys were both at the forefront of the shift in popular music's sound:
Bob Dylan - Highway 61 Revisited (August 1965)
Beach Boys - Pet Sounds (May 1966)
Bob Dylan - Blonde on Blonde (June 1966)
Beatles - Revolver (August 1966)
The Doors - S/T (January 1967)
Velvet Underground and Nico - S/T (March 1967)
Beach Boys - Smile (Spring 1967 intended release date)
Beatles - Sgt. Pepper (June 1967)
Big Brother and Holding Company - S/T (September 1967)
No denying the Texas Cannonball either, just that you stated that SRV was over-rated, just can't dig that.
I think he was a great guitarist, I just don't see him as being particularly innovative or ground breaking, unlike say Hendrix or Allman.
As such I think the praise he gets over rates him, mostly because I think classic rock radio likes to see itself as 'keeping the blues alive' by playing him.
I think he was a great guitarist, I just don't see him as being particularly innovative or ground breaking, unlike say Hendrix or Allman.
As such I think the praise he gets over rates him, mostly because I think classic rock radio likes to see itself as 'keeping the blues alive' by playing him.
OK this I can agree with, he was way too late to the party to be ground breaking. He was one of the most skilled guitarist of his era, wouldn't call him ground breaking.
That boring piece of shaz did more to discredit than grow. You are quite young if you think that movie has anything to do with their popularity.
If "quite young" means "under 60", then you got me there. The guy has been dead for 40 years. You'd have to be at least 55 now to have been a fan when he was alive.
I remember when that movie came out. Before that boring piece of shaz, Jim Morrison was a fringe character from Hippie Times. He became a counter-culture god to people who were far too young to remember him alive.
As for the movie doing more discrediting than growing, the internet tells me that they had a top 10 hit in 1991. I don't think it's a coincidence.
What about one of the most influential comedians of all time?
Lenny Bruce:
Far before my time, but one of if not THE guy who paved the road for a lot of great comedians in the last 40-50 years. From what I understand, he was pretty beaten down and muted by the time he died, so maybe there was nothing more for him to give.
__________________ "It's a great day for hockey."
-'Badger' Bob Johnson (1931-1991)
"I see as much misery out of them moving to justify theirselves as them that set out to do harm." -Dr. Amos "Doc" Cochran
The Following User Says Thank You to Yamer For This Useful Post:
If we're going the comedians route, you gotta throw Bill Hicks in there. I have no doubt Hicks would credit Lenny Bruce as one of his influences, but credit where credit is due, no one has been as ... relentless as Bill Hicks was since him.
The Following User Says Thank You to driveway For This Useful Post:
If Oliver Stone didn't resurrect them with that movie 20 years after Jim Morrison died, they'd just be another 60's hippy-dippy band like Jefferson Airplane, with one song that everyone knows and that's about it.
That's not fair, most people know two Jefferson Airplane songs!
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Locke
Thats why Flames fans make ideal Star Trek fans. We've really been taught to embrace the self-loathing and extreme criticism.
