2011 Blue Jays Season Thread

[Matty81]

Originally Posted by Sylvanfan

Yeah, but everyone knows that Lawrie was being held there to keep him from being in the Super 2 group. What are you going to do in that case, bench him for a few days? It's an unfortunate injury, but you're trying to set things up so you have an ultra productive hitter at a low rate a few years down the road when you are a real contender. As for Snider, it's only been the recent games where he's starting to get his stroke back, and who would he be displacing in the outfield these days? It's not like Triple A is a bunch of backwoods punks who plunk guys in the head on a daily basis. These is more of fluke co-incidence than anything.

Wasn't calling for Lawrie to come up at that point in time - they gambled on leaving him down to avoid super 2 status and got unlucky. Snider should have been back already though. Didn't like seeing him go down in the first place to be honest but your logic about the outfield at that point was sound, they were all hitting.

Patterson is 3/25 over the last week though, probably 2 of which were bunt hits and Rajai is brutal at the plate for a month now, the outfield is way less engraved in stone than it was when he first went down - there's plenty of space for Snider to be getting at bats and it would be better for the team in the long run.

As far as a roster spot, even if you don't want to jettison E5 (why though?) carrying both McCoy and McDonald, as much as I like them both, is kind of pointless. You don't need two utility infielders who don't hit on the roster at the same time.

Probably just bad luck as you say, but when a guy hits 500 for a couple weeks down there nothing else good is going to happen except getting pitched around or getting his tower buzzed repeatedly.

[Matty81]

All this talk in the marquee game on Fox between the Cubs and Yankees about Ryan Dempster getting dealt to the Yankees makes me wish unrealistically that the Jays would take a run at him. FA after this season wouldn't appear to make sense until you consider that Dempster was a Jays superfan when he was a kid, apparently never missed a game and he might exercise his 14 mil player option with them. His numbers are a bit rough this year but I think an older guy good for 200 innings is just what the young staff needs.

[Wise Gamble]

'Dumpster' walks too many batters and is too inconsistent. Not worth the price or risk.

[Mightyfire89]

Originally Posted by Caged Great

Yep, and then when their good players became free agents, they went to high payroll teams like Boston.

It's kind of BS where a team has to build for 5 or 6 years (meaning crap) so they might get one or two shots at possibly being the WC team before all the players get old enough to require elite calibre contracts.

It's not fair, especially when Minnesota is mediocre and has been for a decade and yet has made the playoffs almost every year, and most of the time the Jays have had a better team, despite finishing 3rd or 4th most of the time.

Yes but, Paul Beeston and Nadir Mohamed have already stated that when the team is ready, the funds will be there to sign key free agents/beef up the roster, so in theory, what you're talking about shouldn't be a problem.

We'll see, I guess.

[Sylvanfan]

I think the key is to try and get these guys signed to deals where you can blend some of the cheaper years with the first couple unrestricted years. Recently guys like Braun, Longoria, and Tulowitzki signed longer deals after a season or two. It's one thing to let a 28 year old guy get to free agency...that hurts. But if you bought up those first couple years before hand, it's not so bad to avoid signing a 31 year old guy to an expensive 5 year contract.

[Caged Great]

Here's a breakdown of AA's 2010 signings

John MacDonald - 2 years at 1.5 mil per - 0.9 WAR so far - Value for contract $3.6 Mil

Jose Molina - 2 years 800K, 1 mil - 1.6 WAR so far - Value for contract $6.4 Mil

John Buck - 1 year 2 mil - 3 WAR - Value for contract $12 Mil

Kevin Gregg - 1 year 2 mil + options - 0.8 WAR - Value for contract $3.2 mil

Alex Gonzalez - 2 years 2.75 + 2.5 - 2.7 WAR while with the Jays - Value for contract $10.8 Mil

So for just 12.3 million in contracts, AA got 36 Million in value.

Also, the 3 of them aren't on the team any more

Out

Gregg, Buck, Gonzalez, Pastornicky, Collins (two reliever prospects)

In

Escobar, Jo-Jo Reyes, Joe Musgrove, Dwight Smith Jr (two taken with comp picks from Gregg and Buck)


So that's pretty awesome, 2 1st round prospects, a 5th starter, one of the top 5 SS in baseball on top of getting 3X the value out of the contracts in the first place.

AA's doing pretty good.

[Caged Great]

Add in getting rid of Wells contract, with 86 million still owed (he's hitting .190 with 6 HR, 17 RBI, and .549 OPS, which is really terrible)

Even though AA sent 5 million, and took on 9.25 (Rivera and Francisco), that money saved is a huge plus. Combined, Rivera and Francisco's WAR is 0.1, not good but Wells is actually -0.3. A replacement level player would be an improvement. 86 million more......

[Sylvanfan]

Not only that, but he also managed to move Vernon Wells' contract and put the team in position to have a lot of flexibility as early as next season as he'll be free and clear of all money owed on that deal.

Consider Wells WAR and how overvalued his contract was based on numbers this year, that's a huge win for the team in terms of value.

*edit, beaten to it.

[Matty81]

Jays signed Yunel Escobar to a 2 year contract at 5 million per year, with 2 years of club options beyond that at 5 million per. Pretty happy about this deal - the first two years he was under club control anyway but I think it's still good value and if he continues to hit the way he has been and provides 10-15 hrs, 60+ RBIs, a .280 average and plus glove work into those first two years of free agency that will be an absolute steal.

[nik-]

That's a nice deal. I was pretty happy when we got him ... then cooled on him a bit. But at this point he's just a nice solid piece of a team.

[flames_1987]

That's an amazing deal for someone who has been in the top 4 shortstops over the last two years and plays a skilled defensive position. To have team option makes it an even better looking one. Great deal

[Sylvanfan]

Escobar does give the Blue Jays the most productive SS in the Division right now. So if he can produce the way he has for the next 4 seasons like he has since joining the Jays that represents some great value. Let the Yankees spend 15 million to have a pop gun aged out former legend give them mediocre production and expect Superstar treatment.

[Jiggy_12]

Great deal. Just another piece in place for the 2012-2013 rise of the Blue Jays!

[CofR]

Awesome deal for Escobar. He's great value for that salary.

[Berger]

Another amazing contract for the jays, Lind and Escobar's deals could be the best 2 in the mlb right now.

[moon]

Originally Posted by Sylvanfan

Escobar does give the Blue Jays the most productive SS in the Division right now. So if he can produce the way he has for the next 4 seasons like he has since joining the Jays that represents some great value. Let the Yankees spend 15 million to have a pop gun aged out former legend give them mediocre production and expect Superstar treatment.

I think the Yankees will gladly take Jeter and the play-offs over Escobar and 4th place finishes.

[Jiggy_12]

Originally Posted by moon

I think the Yankees will gladly take Jeter and the play-offs over Escobar and 4th place finishes.

What does that have to do with the quality of the Escobar contract?

[RedHot25]

Originally Posted by moon

I think the Yankees will gladly take Jeter and the play-offs over Escobar and 4th place finishes.

I'll take a post on topic too.

[moon]

Originally Posted by Jiggy_12

What does that have to do with the quality of the Escobar contract?

I wasn't the one who brought up the Yankees.

Notice I didn't respond to any post talking about the Escobar contract alone and only commented on the cheap shot at Jeter.

But of course it is me who is off topic.

[Sylvanfan]

How is my comment a cheap shot? Jeter's OPS in the past calender year has been awful, even for a short stop. Right now the Yankees make the playoffs inspite of Jeter. Whereas for his first 14 years he was a big reason they did make it. As I said they have money, they can spend big money on a declining legend. Teams who don't need to let that guy go and find a productive guy to spend the money on. But whatever, keep on keeping on the way you keep on all mighty moon. It's unique I'll give you that.