If you can't see God, then that must mean he doesn't exist?
I don't really have time to run around in circles. I've posted this book on this forum before, and I strongly recommend you (and anyone else that constantly makes faulty arguments) read it.
There are a lot of people who construct fallacious arguments and it drives me nuts. The older I get, the less I care to correct fallacy ridden arguments.
Who has a problem with people praying in a public ceremony?
They are free to pray on their own.
The prayer has no place in the ceremony but that doesn't stop people from praying if they want to.
Prayer has had a place in most ceremonies including government events since the foundation of our countries. We are moving away from this as our countries become more diverse but, don't pretend there hasn't been a place for it.
Prayer has had a place in most ceremonies including government events since the foundation of our countries. We are moving away from this as our countries become more diverse but, don't pretend there hasn't been a place for it.
There is no place for it in the public realm anymore. It's a private matter. As it should be.
North American democracy no longer adheres to the founding demographic template.
That is a matter for continued debate both in and out of the courts. Just because it is settled in your mind doesn't mean it is settled.
Explain to me why it's important that completion of matriculation is worthy of god praise.
Should every public gathering start with prayer? We put up with national anthems before sporting events. Not sure why it's appropriate in this case, and good on Damon Fowler for sticking to his principles. He is a hero.
So what would your response be to a Christian student protesting a Sikh prayer at a high school in Surrey?
I would be suprised that he wasn't atheist. It's you guys that want to silence opposing beliefs.
I don't like native prayers in public schools but, I've never complained about them occasionally coming in. In a situation like your suggesting where there is no past history of such a practice I think I might have a problem. If we're talking about simply a prayer and the majority of the school is Sikh I would practice a little tolerance.
Explain to me why it's important that completion of matriculation is worthy of god praise.
Should every public gathering start with prayer? We put up with national anthems before sporting events. Not sure why it's appropriate in this case, and good on Damon Fowler for sticking to his principles. He is a hero.
It has been traditional to both acknowledge and thank God for his contribution to milestones within our lives; Along with asking for His blessing on future endeavours.
Beyond the milestone events I think you would have to really go case by case. Most children in my son's school are not practicing christians. In the deep South you might find the majority to be christians.
The Following User Says Thank You to Calgaryborn For This Useful Post:
I'm actually blown away by how smart and informed a community CP has at its disposal. Truly one of the most well rounded forums on the internet in terms of the various knowledge bases that some of the posters have.
Kings to you guys/gals, you have kept me up until 2 am reading this thread.
A school administration enforcing prayer at a public school IS illegal as determined by the Supreme Court.
Now if the school were thinking they should have cancelled the grad ceremonies than proceeded to have an "informal grad" ceremony at a different location. I'm sure there would have been a church willing to host such a ceremony, where prayer would have been allowed.
Not 100% sure but I wouldn't think that there is anything in the law preventing a school from not having "formal" graduation ceremonies.
Great flood? by great do you mean a flood like the Mississippi river over flowing it's banks every few years or a global flood?
The story of Noah is a complete fairy tale,people back then lived in their little fish-bowl.There is zero evidence that the earth ever had a global flood,the only time it was close was when the planet was a frozen ball from a global ice age and that was over 650 million years ago.
I am so amazed that people today still believe in the bible,if you believe in the Bible you should believe in witches, wizards, sorcerers, spirits, satyrs, demons, giants, dragons, and unicorns. All of which that there is not a spec of proof of existence..zero.
Small sample:
1) Great Flood,and Noah saving ever living thing in pairs loaded on a wooden boat.
2) A boy slaying a 200 foot giant with a slingshot.
3) A man hanging out in the belly of a Whale for 3 days.
4) 900-year old men and talking jackasses.
5) A woman being convinced by a talking snake to eat the fruit of a magical tree
6) creation of the universe in 6 days..no wonder he rested on the 7th!
7) A man walking on water and making food fall from the sky.
It's clear,the Bible is merely a collection of fairy tales and should be catalogued and shelved with the fiction section of the library. But not with the other fairy tales, because so many of the Bible’s stories are too brutal to be read by kids or schizophrenics.
It has been traditional to both acknowledge and thank God for his contribution to milestones within our lives; Along with asking for His blessing on future endeavours.
Beyond the milestone events I think you would have to really go case by case. Most children in my son's school are not practicing christians. In the deep South you might find the majority to be christians.
As society grows and becomes more educated traditions change. There are literally thousands of examples of this.
Simply because you believe that "your" tradition needs to be upheld doesn't necessarily make it so.
Asking a fake deity to give me his blessing is akin to getting Santa Claus' blessing on the clothes I wear. The last thing I want my children to think is that someone's God had something to do with their education, when in fact it was my children's talent, studying and perseverance that made it so, to give false thanks would undermine their progression and abilities.
Further...I would suggest that religion is an individual experience, the way they transform themselves to meet societal change does not make them a tradition.
Last edited by Cheese; 05-20-2011 at 08:19 AM.
The Following User Says Thank You to Cheese For This Useful Post:
Now if the school were thinking they should have cancelled the grad ceremonies than proceeded to have an "informal grad" ceremony at a different location. I'm sure there would have been a church willing to host such a ceremony, where prayer would have been allowed.
Not 100% sure but I wouldn't think that there is anything in the law preventing a school from not having "formal" graduation ceremonies.
And you think that's the Christian thing to do?
I don't call myself a Christian anymore which makes me supposedly amoral, but even I know that that goes against what Jesus taught.
The whole situation just goes to illustrate that one group of people are no more or less spiteful and petty than any other random group of people.
__________________ Uncertainty is an uncomfortable position.
But certainty is an absurd one.
Great flood? by great do you mean a flood like the Mississippi river over flowing it's banks every few years or a global flood?
The story of Noah is a complete fairy tale,people back then lived in their little fish-bowl.There is zero evidence that the earth ever had a global flood,the only time it was close was when the planet was a frozen ball from a global ice age and that was over 650 million years ago.
Oh, I'm not arguing that it's not fictional. I think it's a fairy tale just as much as you for the scale of it or with most of the other parts of the event that pertain to it. However, what I'm say is that it's very consistent within different religious texts that there was a large flood of some variety and I'm willing to believe that historically, there was a ecological event where the world did have a large increase in water level.
lol PZ Meyers says it nicely about the video of the rehearsal.
Quote:
I suppose I should start including general explanations for the terminally obtuse.
There is no proscription against individual prayer. If 99.9% of the students had taken advantage of the moment of silence to bow their heads and beg Jesus to help them get laid after the kegger that night, NO PROBLEM.
There is a proscription against compelling EVERYONE to participate in sectarian prayer. When someone stands up and announces that we're all going to ask Jesus Christ for a blessing, PROBLEM.
I know you Christians out there have very limited brains and can't quite comprehend this basic concept, but try. Imagine if that woman had gotten up there and announced that she was going to ignore the rules, and asked everyone to turn and face Mecca, get down on their knees, and join in the salah. Would you be cheering then?
Keep it in church. Don't muck up secular, public events that are supposed to be inclusive of everybody, including non-Christians, unless your goal really is to send a message that non-Christians are not part of the community.
