Kirk Cameron Attacks Stephen Hawking

[photon]

Originally Posted by oilers_fan

I agree with you, but I think this opinion could also be applied to that high school student who might have to put up with a little prayer. Legal or not.

It's not a matter of putting up with it, it's a matter of being appropriate.

In a secular system you can't give special treatment for any one religion, that'll create or perpetuate a bias, and any bias towards something is also a bias against something else (be it people of no religion or people of other religions).

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by oilers_fan

Ok, but you're in the bible belt. You know full well it's full of religiousness in the schools. Unless someone is physically harming myself or my family, you can pray to whomever the hell you want and it doesn't bother me. It may change the way I think about you, but I don't lose sleep over it.

I don't know about you, but when I was in high school I didn't exactly have the resources to just pack up and move if I didn't like something.

[metallicat]

Originally Posted by rubecube

I don't know about you, but when I was in high school I didn't exactly have the resources to just pack up and move if I didn't like something.

I'm a trust fund kid, I could have lived anywhere I wanted. Hence Edmonton. Wouldn't you choose Edmonton if you could?

Edit - P.S. I'm kidding.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by oilers_fan

I'm a trust fund kid, I could have lived anywhere I wanted. Hence Edmonton. Wouldn't you choose Edmonton if you could?

Edit - P.S. I'm kidding.

I hear the river valley is just beautiful.

[MarchHare]

Originally Posted by oilers_fan

If you can give me a legitimate way in which a simple "Our Father" might negatively affect his life, I'll concede.

How about the reasoning of Justice Anthony Kennedy who wrote the majority opinion in Lee v. Weisman? In this case, the Supreme Court ruled that prayers at public school graduation ceremonies in the US are unconstitutional -- a ruling that this school is illegally not following.

What to most believers may seem nothing more than a reasonable request that the nonbeliever respect their religious practices, in a school context may appear to the nonbeliever or dissenter to be an attempt to employ the machinery of the State to enforce a religious orthodoxy.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lee_v._Weisman

[metallicat]

Originally Posted by rubecube

I hear the river valley is just beautiful.

Gorgeous.

I don't know guys, I guess I'm missing the bigger picture. I'll just let it go. I've always said I'm not smart enough to debate these things, so I'll just forget about it. I'll take my own advice - this happened in a school district in the USA which doesn't affect me whatsoever.

[worth]

Throughout this entire thread I thought we were talking about James Cameron lashing out at Hawking. I just now realized it was Kirk Cameron who is that funny looking dude from that show in the 80's, so now I really don't care about this thread.

[flames85]

Originally Posted by rubecube

It's a public school, not a Christian school. If they want their beliefs recognized, then they can do it in private. Could you imagine the outcry at that same school if a contingent of Muslim students asked for a prayer to be read at the ceremony?

I understand what your saying. The only thing that bothers me is we are a nation whose "roots" were christian. I remember when i was a kid we had to say the lords prayer and the national anthem every monday. Im just saying we give up allot of what believe just to satisfy everyone. This was never a muslim country or buddist ..etc. and in the end the atheist have it the way they prefer. There has to be some give and take is all im saying.

[T@T]

Originally Posted by kirant

Some of the stuff recorded in the Bible is archaeologically accurate, yes. There is a lot of evidence for some of the landmarks or events like a great flood

NO!

Great flood? by great do you mean a flood like the Mississippi river over flowing it's banks every few years or a global flood?

The story of Noah is a complete fairy tale,people back then lived in their little fish-bowl.There is zero evidence that the earth ever had a global flood,the only time it was close was when the planet was a frozen ball from a global ice age and that was over 650 million years ago.

I am so amazed that people today still believe in the bible,if you believe in the Bible you should believe in witches, wizards, sorcerers, spirits, satyrs, demons, giants, dragons, and unicorns. All of which that there is not a spec of proof of existence..zero.

Small sample:

1) Great Flood,and Noah saving ever living thing in pairs loaded on a wooden boat.
2) A boy slaying a 200 foot giant with a slingshot.
3) A man hanging out in the belly of a Whale for 3 days.
4) 900-year old men and talking jackasses.
5) A woman being convinced by a talking snake to eat the fruit of a magical tree
6) creation of the universe in 6 days..no wonder he rested on the 7th!
7) A man walking on water and making food fall from the sky.


It's clear,the Bible is merely a collection of fairy tales and should be catalogued and shelved with the fiction section of the library. But not with the other fairy tales, because so many of the Bible’s stories are too brutal to be read by kids or schizophrenics.

[MarchHare]

I remember when i was a kid we had to say the lords prayer and the national anthem every monday. Im just saying we give up allot of what believe just to satisfy everyone.

How does not reciting the Lord's prayer in school impact your religious beliefs in any way whatsoever?

Nobody is preventing you from praying in your home or church, and students are even allowed to form religious clubs and pray in school. The only stipulation is that the prayer must not be forced by the school administration on every student.

[flames85]

... think of it this way, if you moved to a muslim nation I would anticipate you would be involved in their religious practices. You would not expect them to change their schools to our "public" ways.

[Knut]

Originally Posted by flames85

... think of it this way, if you moved to a muslim nation I would anticipate you would be involved in their religious practices. You would not expect them to change their schools to our "public" ways.

So you are saying the US and Canada should because Back Asswards like those places ?

[MarchHare]

Originally Posted by flames85

... think of it this way, if you moved to a muslim nation I would anticipate you would be involved in their religious practices. You would not expect them to change their schools to our "public" ways.

Do most Muslim nations have documents like the US Constitution or the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms that explicitly forbid the government from acting as an agent of religion?

Unlike many Muslim nations, Canada is not a theocracy, so I damn well do expect that the government will remain secular and separate from any particular religion.

[flames85]

Originally Posted by MarchHare

How does not reciting the Lord's prayer in school impact your religious beliefs in any way whatsoever?

Nobody is preventing you from praying in your home or church, and students are even allowed to form religious clubs and pray in school. The only stipulation is that the prayer must not be forced by the school administration on every student.

Your right, but it wasn't forced upon every student. As i recall their were some students who did not participate. I'm just saying we bend for every other belief/religion we lose our own identity. It is fact that Canada is a majority Christian country, so why do we appease to everyone else.

[flames85]

Originally Posted by Hesla

So you are saying the US and Canada should because Back Asswards like those places ?

your saying all muslim nations are back asswards?

[Knut]

Originally Posted by flames85

your saying all muslim nations are back asswards?

For the most part, yes. It is such an archaic practice for Church and State to be one and the same. There public schools are all Muslim schools.

Christians have their own schools here, why do we need prayer in public school too ?

You can pray at home, at catholic/religious school, at church, in your car, on the side of the road ? But you are upset because you are not able to have a prayer in a setting that is considering public domain in a secular nation where there are people of all religions ?

[MarchHare]

Originally Posted by flames85

Your right, but it wasn't forced upon every student. As i recall their were some students who did not participate. I'm just saying we bend for every other belief/religion we lose our own identity. It is fact that Canada is a majority Christian country, so why do we appease to everyone else.

Who's being appeased? What do Christians lose by not having their prayers recited in secular public schools?

Canada is a secular nation with a large Christian population, not a Christian nation.

[photon]

Originally Posted by flames85

The only thing that bothers me is we are a nation whose "roots" were christian.

One of the best proofs is simply to read the Founding Father who actually spelled out what inspired the Constitution: John Adams, History of the Principal Republics in the World: A Defense of the Constitutions of Government of the United States of America (1794), in 3 volumes. How much does Moses get mentioned there, or the Ten Commandments? Essentially nil. Ditto Jesus. Adams was certainly a god-fearing Christian, and offers much praise in various of his writings for Christian religion. But that has no bearing on whether Adams conceived or intended America to be a Christian nation, much less built on the Ten Commandments. To the contrary, he held to exactly the opposite principle (quoting from the above History, with emphasis added):

The United States of America have exhibited, perhaps, the first example of governments erected on the simple principles of nature, and if men are now sufficiently enlightened to disabuse themselves of artifice, imposture, hypocrisy, and superstition, they will consider this event as an era in their history. ... It will never be pretended that any persons employed in that service had any interviews with the gods, or were in any degree under the inspiration of heaven, any more than those at work upon ships or houses, or laboring in merchandise or agriculture. It will forever be acknowledged that these governments were contrived merely by the use of reason and the senses.

http://sites.google.com/site/thechri...dern-democracy
http://www.infidels.org/library/mode...till/myth.html

Originally Posted by flames85

I remember when i was a kid we had to say the lords prayer and the national anthem every monday. Im just saying we give up allot of what believe just to satisfy everyone.

And kids can still pray in school if they want, it's a constitutionally protected right.

Originally Posted by flames85

This was never a muslim country or buddist ..etc.

Or a Christian country either, it was to be secular and equal, not a theocracy. Respecting all religions and giving no special treatment to any.

Or you'd be ok with the entire country having to pray to Thor every morning?

[longsuffering]

Originally Posted by Calgaryborn

For that question Kirk Cameron has an advantage over Stephen Hawkings. He hasn't limited himself to see through one singular prism: REALITY .

fyp

[Beerfest]

Originally Posted by T@T

NO!

Great flood? by great do you mean a flood like the Mississippi river over flowing it's banks every few years or a global flood?

The story of Noah is a complete fairy tale,people back then lived in their little fish-bowl.There is zero evidence that the earth ever had a global flood,the only time it was close was when the planet was a frozen ball from a global ice age and that was over 650 million years ago.

I am so amazed that people today still believe in the bible,if you believe in the Bible you should believe in witches, wizards, sorcerers, spirits, satyrs, demons, giants, dragons, and unicorns. All of which that there is not a spec of proof of existence..zero.

Small sample:

1) Great Flood,and Noah saving ever living thing in pairs loaded on a wooden boat.
2) A boy slaying a 200 foot giant with a slingshot.
3) A man hanging out in the belly of a Whale for 3 days.
4) 900-year old men and talking jackasses.
5) A woman being convinced by a talking snake to eat the fruit of a magical tree
6) creation of the universe in 6 days..no wonder he rested on the 7th!
7) A man walking on water and making food fall from the sky.


It's clear,the Bible is merely a collection of fairy tales and should be catalogued and shelved with the fiction section of the library. But not with the other fairy tales, because so many of the Bible’s stories are too brutal to be read by kids or schizophrenics.

Dont agree with the bolded part at all.