05-19-2011, 05:20 PM
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#181
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Basement Chicken Choker
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: In a land without pants, or war, or want. But mostly we care about the pants.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Calgaryborn
He hasn't limited himself to see through one singular prism: science.
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Science is the casting aside of all prisms in favour of apprehending reality as it IS, and not how we might wish it to be. You mistake it for another version of Truth, when it is instead a way of determining the truth among versions.
__________________
Better educated sadness than oblivious joy.
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05-19-2011, 05:30 PM
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#182
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Lifetime Suspension
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I find it astounding how passionate atheists opinions/beliefs become when arguing with christians about God. I guess what I'm saying is if a person approached you and told you they believed in peter pan, nobody in their right mind would become this passionate. Ultimately they could careless if thats what someone wanted to believe. It speaks volumes as to why atheists care to argue over this matter, for possible fear that God does exist?
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05-19-2011, 05:34 PM
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#183
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Lifetime Suspension
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Lethbridge
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flames85
I find it astounding how passionate atheists opinions/beliefs become when arguing with christians about God. I guess what I'm saying is if a person approached you and told you they believed in peter pan, nobody in their right mind would become this passionate. Ultimately they could careless if thats what someone wanted to believe. It speaks volumes as to why atheists care to argue over this matter, for possible fear that God does exist?
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That is not it at all.
The difference between talking about god and talking about someone who believes in peter pan is that the guy who believes in Peter Pan isn't constantly trying to tell me that I am wrong/need to change/laws need to change etc.
If the Peter Pan guy was as passionate about his fairy tale as many Christians are I am sure that atheists would argue just as strongly with him as they do with Christians.
There may be a small minority that fear God does exist but for the vast majority of them they have seen the evidence and it is clear to them that he does not.
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05-19-2011, 05:34 PM
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#184
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flames85
I find it astounding how passionate atheists opinions/beliefs become when arguing with christians about God. I guess what I'm saying is if a person approached you and told you they believed in peter pan, nobody in their right mind would become this passionate. Ultimately they could careless if thats what someone wanted to believe. It speaks volumes as to why atheists care to argue over this matter, for possible fear that God does exist?
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If 90% of the worlds population (or however many people say they believe in God) said they believed in Peter Pan, you're damned right I'd be saying/thinking (ok, thinking, I let other people do most of the talking) the same exact things. A fairytale is a fairytale in my books.
__________________
But living an honest life - for that you need the truth. That's the other thing I learned that day, that the truth, however shocking or uncomfortable, leads to liberation and dignity. -Ricky Gervais
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05-19-2011, 05:36 PM
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#185
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First Line Centre
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flames85
I find it astounding how passionate atheists opinions/beliefs become when arguing with christians about God. I guess what I'm saying is if a person approached you and told you they believed in peter pan, nobody in their right mind would become this passionate. Ultimately they could careless if thats what someone wanted to believe. It speaks volumes as to why atheists care to argue over this matter, for possible fear that God does exist?
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Or possibly fear that the majority of people in a democracy choose to believe in fables that can be harmful to minority groups. Sure, many religious people resist those fables when they see that gay people being allowed to marry may not actually bring massive earthquakes and the destruction of civilization... but it nevertheless frightens me that so many religious people fight against things that are so trivial in their lives, yet have such a huge impact on mine.
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05-19-2011, 05:37 PM
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#186
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Lifetime Suspension
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As for anyone who says "majority of christians" or "all christians", that is offensive to me. It's stereotyping. I am not one who believes in knocking on your door and forcing you to read my pamphlet, instead I try to live my life with morals and respect towards others. People are educated now-a-days, forcing someone one way or another does not work. Everyone decides for themselves based on what the know or what the believe. It's only a matter of evidence to some and faith to others.
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05-19-2011, 05:40 PM
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#187
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Lifetime Suspension
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flames85
I find it astounding how passionate atheists opinions/beliefs become when arguing with christians about God. I guess what I'm saying is if a person approached you and told you they believed in peter pan, nobody in their right mind would become this passionate. Ultimately they could careless if thats what someone wanted to believe. It speaks volumes as to why atheists care to argue over this matter, for possible fear that God does exist?
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NCIS not on tonight Calgaryborn?
Didn't take you long to thank this post.
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05-19-2011, 05:42 PM
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#188
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Lifetime Suspension
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moon
That is not it at all.
The difference between talking about god and talking about someone who believes in peter pan is that the guy who believes in Peter Pan isn't constantly trying to tell me that I am wrong/need to change/laws need to change etc.
If the Peter Pan guy was as passionate about his fairy tale as many Christians are I am sure that atheists would argue just as strongly with him as they do with Christians.
There may be a small minority that fear God does exist but for the vast majority of them they have seen the evidence and it is clear to them that he does not.
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Your statement is exactly why I don't associate with a "so-called" religion. That is the problem, as these ppl are the spokesperson for christianity. I myself will admit they are an embarassment. There are good christians out there too, but i feel as though the media focuses on the negative or they themselves are the ones that put themselves in the front lines, spreading the wrong message.
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05-19-2011, 05:42 PM
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#189
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Victoria
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flames85
As for anyone who says "majority of christians" or "all christians", that is offensive to me. It's stereotyping. I am not one who believes in knocking on your door and forcing you to read my pamphlet, instead I try to live my life with morals and respect towards others. People are educated now-a-days, forcing someone one way or another does not work. Everyone decides for themselves based on what the know or what the believe. It's only a matter of evidence to some and faith to others.
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Which is fine. I have no problem with Christians like you. The ones I do have problems with are the diehards, like Calgaryborn, who think they've been given some sort of right to impose their beliefs on people whose lifestyle choices actually have no effect on him at all.
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05-19-2011, 05:44 PM
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#190
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rubecube
Which is fine. I have no problem with Christians like you. The ones I do have problems with are the diehards, like Calgaryborn, who think they've been given some sort of right to impose their beliefs on people whose lifestyle choices actually have no effect on him at all.
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I agree with you, but I think this opinion could also be applied to that high school student who might have to put up with a little prayer. Legal or not.
__________________
But living an honest life - for that you need the truth. That's the other thing I learned that day, that the truth, however shocking or uncomfortable, leads to liberation and dignity. -Ricky Gervais
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05-19-2011, 05:50 PM
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#191
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Victoria
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oilers_fan
I agree with you, but I think this opinion could also be applied to that high school student who might have to put up with a little prayer. Legal or not.
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Why? I think the dude has a right to not have his grad ceremony Jesus'd up.
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05-19-2011, 05:51 PM
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#192
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Basement Chicken Choker
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: In a land without pants, or war, or want. But mostly we care about the pants.
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"The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man." - George Bernard Shaw.
__________________
Better educated sadness than oblivious joy.
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05-19-2011, 05:52 PM
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#193
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Lifetime Suspension
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rubecube
Why? I think the dude has a right to not have his grad ceremony Jesus'd up.
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But then it becomes unfair for those who believe. Thats where it becomes difficult. How can you respect the wishes of both?
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05-19-2011, 05:55 PM
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#194
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Victoria
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flames85
But then it becomes unfair for those who believe. Thats where it becomes difficult. How can you respect the wishes of both?
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It's a public school, not a Christian school. If they want their beliefs recognized, then they can do it in private. Could you imagine the outcry at that same school if a contingent of Muslim students asked for a prayer to be read at the ceremony?
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05-19-2011, 05:56 PM
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#195
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Franchise Player
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Well here we go again, but I'm mainly saying that him having to listen to a prayer at the start of graduation has little to no effect on him or his life whatsoever. Just like you said people like calgaryborn "think they've been given some sort of right to impose their beliefs on people whose lifestyle choices actually have no effect on him at all."
A prayer during his graduation has virtually no effect on his life. If he hates the bible belt so much, move out of state. He's graduated high school, go to some other state for school. I understand the whole freedom of and from religion thing. I get it. But at what point does a guy say, you know what? This doesn't really affect me.
A similar but not-so similar situation was a few years ago when Carlos Delgado refused to stand for God Bless America or the Star Spangled Banner (whichever one). He created huge waves for no reason at all. Just stand and shut-up about it.
__________________
But living an honest life - for that you need the truth. That's the other thing I learned that day, that the truth, however shocking or uncomfortable, leads to liberation and dignity. -Ricky Gervais
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05-19-2011, 05:58 PM
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#196
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Victoria
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oilers_fan
Well here we go again, but I'm mainly saying that him having to listen to a prayer at the start of graduation has little to no effect on him or his life whatsoever. Just like you said people like calgaryborn "think they've been given some sort of right to impose their beliefs on people whose lifestyle choices actually have no effect on him at all."
A prayer during his graduation has virtually no effect on his life. If he hates the bible belt so much, move out of state. He's graduated high school, go to some other state for school. I understand the whole freedom of and from religion thing. I get it. But at what point does a guy say, you know what? This doesn't really affect me.
A similar but not-so similar situation was a few years ago when Carlos Delgado refused to stand for God Bless America or the Star Spangled Banner (whichever one). He created huge waves for no reason at all. Just stand and shut-up about it.
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Because it shouldn't be in school in the first place. The people who should be shutting up about are the religious freaks who feel the need to push their agenda. Same with the people who got pissed at Delgado.
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05-19-2011, 05:59 PM
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#197
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Basement Chicken Choker
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: In a land without pants, or war, or want. But mostly we care about the pants.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oilers_fan
He created huge waves for no reason at all.
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No reason that YOU would find important. If you don't understand why people take issue with certain actions that don't bother you, that's a failure on your part, not on theirs.
__________________
Better educated sadness than oblivious joy.
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05-19-2011, 06:00 PM
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#198
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Franchise Player
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Ok, but you're in the bible belt. You know full well it's full of religiousness in the schools. Unless someone is physically harming myself or my family, you can pray to whomever the hell you want and it doesn't bother me. It may change the way I think about you, but I don't lose sleep over it.
__________________
But living an honest life - for that you need the truth. That's the other thing I learned that day, that the truth, however shocking or uncomfortable, leads to liberation and dignity. -Ricky Gervais
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05-19-2011, 06:01 PM
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#199
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Lifetime Suspension
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shades
Talk about strawman arguments, photon. Right after you disparage someone for using them no less.
Archeological evidence supports everything that has been recorded in the Bible. Times. Dates. Events. Using your scientific approach, it's up to you to prove to me that the Bible doesn't actually, right?
And your ignorance of the Bible is evident with comments such as "Bible itself has contradicting points of view on the afterlife from OT to NT."
Normally I take a much more diplomatic approach to debates, but it's hard to have a discussion with someone that doesn't even know the basics of what they're trying to disprove in the first place.
Edit: And before you quote two scriptures in the OT and NT, I suggest you read the context and do the research, so you don't look foolish for trying to follow up on your false assertion.
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Archeological evidence supports the basic setting in Richard III by Shakespeare. Does that make that play true? Good lord what a bad argument.
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05-19-2011, 06:01 PM
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#200
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jammies
No reason that YOU would find important. If you don't understand why people take issue with certain actions that don't bother you, that's a failure on your part, not on theirs.
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If you can give me a legitimate way in which a simple "Our Father" might negatively affect his life, I'll concede.
__________________
But living an honest life - for that you need the truth. That's the other thing I learned that day, that the truth, however shocking or uncomfortable, leads to liberation and dignity. -Ricky Gervais
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