God has forgiven all and is inviting all to receive...As far as He is concerned, sin is done away with and receiving His Beloved Son is all that is left for salvation. It's a blessed and worthy saying (not my words, but of Another) for all eternity...
If all has been forgiven and sin is done away with as far as he is concerned, why is that forgiveness conditional? And what must we be forgiven for when the penalties and judgments were placed upon us before we were born to mark us as supposed sinners? That is no love.
Furthermore, your conditions of salvation are only restricted to your own denomination of faith. Others have other conditions and there is still ambiguity about the nature of grace and that of predestination and election. What makes your belief correct and all others wrong?
Just from past CP threads on religion (and they are legion)...
The number of people in this forum who came from religious backgrounds or families or were raised in religious circles and institutions but have realized the incompatibility of that for their own lives and reasoning may surprise you.
Calgarypuck has many religious topics that come up every now and then a few posters that have gone to religious schools and one that is a biblical scholar (seems to know Hebrew and Greek?) but I'd venture to say that they don't hold your position (again from past threads).
Feel free to quote scripture or anything you like. The level of knowledge of CP about religion is quite high for a hockey forum in Alberta.
I wish I could post as eloquently and intelligently as some of the people who have shown up the past threads but they seem to be staying out of the fray lately.
I have read some of the post of the members that you refer to and I respect them very much. I'm sure there are some who could 'blow me out of the water' and that's ok. Scripture is spiritually discerned and I could have MUCH more to say...mostly in regards to filtering the entirety of Scripture through the cross (many speak here as though the Cross of Christ did not make a difference in interpreting Scripture), but again, it is spiritually discerned. Does not make me one iota better than anybody. In all humility, I received Christ when my brother died (I wept)and then began to seek Him more when my brother died.
Even years later, I heard the anointed teachings of Joseph Prince (don't know how to embed, my apoligies). And I wept again.
If all has been forgiven and sin is done away with as far as he is concerned, why is that forgiveness conditional? And what must we be forgiven for when the penalties and judgments were placed upon us before we were born to mark us as supposed sinners? That is no love.
Furthermore, your conditions of salvation are only restricted to your own denomination of faith. Others have other conditions and there is still ambiguity about the nature of grace and that of predestination and election. What makes your belief correct and all others wrong?
We were born as objects of wrath, since we were all born with a sinful nature. (Romans 5). This causes not our sinful actions to be the object of wrath, but instead our nature we were born with. Hence, the need to be born again (John 3:3). We simply received Adam's sinful nature. He chose to eat of the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil (Law) instead of the Tree of Life (Jesus). His choice threw all of humanity into sin and being driven by the Law (self-effort) instead of Grace (rest, as pictured in Hebrews 4).
God's love is so great, that although He knew omnisciently that Adam would commit the original sin, he would send Christ to the Cross to redeem mankind from such (Gen 3:15).
It's very, very serious to me that people respond before it's too late. That is my main concern.
If you read the whole thread, you will know if you are saved or not. You will know you are saved when you have a strong conviction inside for He who took the nails for you. You will know because there will be a joy that can never be taken away. It's a loving conviction based on forgiveness and the righteousness of Christ that lasts forever.
You know, it's exactly this kind of condescension ("if you read the whole thread"), arrogance ("you'll know if you deserve everlasting paradise if you agree with me"), spooky talk, attempted guilt trips and scare tactics ("He who took the nails for you") and confusing, meaningless churchspeak("it's a loving conviction based on forgiveness") that turn people right off.
I'm not going to buy the message either way, but if your main concern is getting people to respond before it's too late, you best come armed to defend your beliefs.
Falling back on the bible and sermonizing ain't going to cut it.
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You know, it's exactly this kind of condescension ("if you read the whole thread"), arrogance ("you'll know if you deserve everlasting paradise if you agree with me"), spooky talk, attempted guilt trips and scare tactics ("He who took the nails for you") and confusing, meaningless churchspeak("it's a loving conviction based on forgiveness") that turn people right off.
I'm not going to buy the message either way, but if your main concern is getting people to respond before it's too late, you best come armed to defend your beliefs.
Falling back on the bible and sermonizing ain't going to cut it.
If I'm not going to fall back on the Bible, what should I fall back on? Those nails, remember, weren't what held Jesus to the cross. It was His Love for YOU. Nothing else speaks of such forgiveness and grace, all encapsulated in His love for the world.
Also, I don't know why referring to the rest of the thread is arrogant, in your opinion. I did then refer back to Romans 5 in that post. I fiind it laughable that my comments were scary or spooky. However, I don't laugh for long and I don't mean that in a condescending way. Hell is scary and spooky...for eternity. That is very serious and is the reason I opened this thread in the first place.
Last edited by Scoreface; 05-18-2011 at 08:34 PM.
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Hell is scary and spooky...for eternity. That is very serious and is the reason I opened this thread in the first place.
The thing about our modern world is that rational and smart people can no longer be scared into accepting religion by the prospect of eternal damnation because for many people, the notion of it is not only absurd, but morally wrong. Faith should not be brought about by fear or terrorism or out of an instinct for self-preservation.
The concept to me was alway entirely morally wrong. I felt this all my life growing up in religious circles of friends and family and upbringing. I cannot worship a god that subjects his billions of creations to eternal suffering for the mere fact that they desire to think for themselves and will not submit to an authority who imposes such immoral conditions...or even worse, are oblivious to the "rules" in the first place and live out their lives as happy, decent, caring, and worthwhile people only to be tormented for eternity.
If life has so much sanctity, the very notion of damnation makes absolutely no sense because we start out with no worth and are condemned to neverending torture for no crime of our own. The concept of original sin is even more offensive because it means you are judged to be guilty even before you are born.
Quote:
God's love is so great, that although He knew omnisciently that Adam would commit the original sin, he would send Christ to the Cross to redeem mankind from such (Gen 3:15).
So god created Adam, knowing already that he would sin but did so anyway. Therefore Adam never had any choice because it was predestined. Therefore billions and billions of human beings that have existed in history are condemned to suffering and death by a creator who is the root cause of that suffering and knew full well even before it began and still allowed it to happen. Even if Christ is salvation, what about the millions of people who existed before ~33 A.D. who were not privy to that salvation? Why did only one single tribe receive special treatment? How does that make any sense?
Last edited by Hack&Lube; 05-18-2011 at 09:42 PM.
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If there is a God, and there is such a thing as salvation, I'm satisfied that holding beliefs that are honestly come by as a result of honest inquiry and thought are either going to be acceptable, or if they aren't then the whole game was unjust to begin with.
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The thing about our modern world is that rational and smart people can no longer be scared into accepting religion by the prospect of eternal damnation because for many people, the notion of it is not only absurd, but morally wrong. Faith should not be brought about by fear or terrorism or out of an instinct for self-preservation.
The concept to me was alway entirely morally wrong. I felt this all my life growing up in religious circles of friends and family and upbringing. I cannot worship a god that subjects his billions of creations to eternal suffering for the mere fact that they desire to think for themselves and will not submit to an authority who imposes such immoral conditions...or even worse, are oblivious to the "gospel" in the first place and live out their lives as happy, decent, caring, and worthwhile people only to be tormented for eternity.
If life has so much sanctity, the very notion of damnation makes absolutely no sense because we start out with no worth and are condemned to absolute torture for no crime of our own. The concept of original sin is even more offensive because it means you are judged to be guilty even before you are born.
I struggled with the whole notion of the 'unfairness' of God condemning people to a lake of fire for eternity for sometime as well through my early adult years, even as an early believer. I know I'm speaking on the authority of the Bible (I have no other authority to speak on), but Colossians 1:15-17 state that through Christ all things were created and in v.14 we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins. God the Father always intended Him to be the object of worship, but that was all lost in Adam, and we followed in a long lineogy of that nature. It is one that realized he was naked and became ashamed of himself. He covered himself with leaves.
Since then, man has covered himself with 'leaves' of doing well for humanity, but really, many haven't even met that measure. It all boils down to self-righteousness (leaves-no blood) and God's righteousness (animal skin - required blood and a foreshadowing of Christ's fulfillment.) I'm not basing my faith on this reference, as I could give others, but the price was finally paid in the finished work of the Cross. The Gospels state that Jesus could not find a place to rest His head, but He finally rested it at His last breath at the Crucifixion, a terribly agonizing death. That is not fair. That He should take the abuse He took in our place.
Further in Colossians, it states that He wiped out all the handwriting of requirements that was 'against us.' That being, God's Holy Law. It was never meant to save man, but to demand from man. Now, God in His infinite grace, imparts such grace to man, to those that receive Him.
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This thread is hilarious to read (thanks Scoreface) but after reading stuff like this:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scoreface
To any who read this, when will your end come? How will you know you are saved? Are you going to base it on the relativism of the world or reach out to the loving arms of Christ. Remember, the outstretched arms are those same arms stretched out on the cross.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scoreface
Even years later, I heard the anointed teachings of Joseph Prince (don't know how to embed, my apoligies). And I wept again.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scoreface
Hell is scary and spooky...for eternity. That is very serious and is the reason I opened this thread in the first place.
This guy has to be doing this as a joke to see how far he can go before people realize it. Nobody can actually belief all this garbage can they?
Yup! Almost everything Scoreface has said I've either said myself or would have Amen'ed in a sermon.
Quote:
Originally Posted by moon
You were concerned about other people's salvation?
Yup, I've gone on mission trips, witnessed, preached to the unsaved (even in a different language through a translator!).
I used to think the earth was 6000 years old and that every other religion was a lie from Satan to deceive. That listening to non-Christian music was a gateway for the devil to lead me astray, and I even tossed out an Egyptian picture once because another believer convinced me that it was demonic.
That Jesus Camp documentary? I went to those kinds of things, and when I got older helped stage them.
"For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, '"He catches the wise in their own craftiness.' ; and again, ' the Lord knows the thoughts of the wise, that they are futile.'" (1 Cor 3:19-20)
What is so foolish/silly about what I've said? If even one believes, there is much rejoicing in Heaven.
Build your house on the solid rock instead of the sinking sand and you too will have much reason to rejoice.
Maybe if the Canucks won the cup, you would seek refuge, a strong tower whereby you will be saved.
Last edited by Scoreface; 05-18-2011 at 09:34 PM.
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This guy has to be doing this as a joke to see how far he can go before people realize it. Nobody can actually belief all this garbage can they?
Just because you think this "stuff" is garbage doesn't mean it is. You refer to this as a joke but I'm on board with Scoreface that this is not joke and no laughing matter. You don't believe it but we both do believe it really is your eternal salvation at stake.
I would willingly be mocked by you and a lot of others if it resulted in another person actually coming to know Jesus and being saved.
"What if you're right?
And he was just another nice guy
What if you're right?
What if it's true?
They say the cross will only make a fool of you
And what if it's true?
But what if you're wrong?
What if there's more?
What if there's hope you never dreamed of hoping for?"
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I wonder if you're capable of forming a single thought on your own? All you do is regurgitate some fairy tale.
Actually, His love will enable you to put Christ-centered pictures on your wall, through His Spirit. I don't believe I've said any of this on my own accord, and am quite glad I haven't. (If I have, my apologies)
(If I have, my apologies)
