We could call this place The Church of CP. It speaks the most truth of any other bible interpretation. All other opinions are wrong.
And isn't that how almost every religious denomination sees itself?
"It speaks the most truth of any other bible interpretation. All other opinions are wrong." describes exactly what most religions are and why people are resistive to proselytizing.
Protestants believe their interpretation of the Bible is the most correct, Mormons believe their interpretation of the Bible is the most correct, Adventists believe their interpretation of the Bible is most correct, Jehovah's Witness' believe their interpretation of the Bible is the most correct, Catholics believe their interpretation of the Bible is the most correct, Sunni's believe their interpretation of the Koran is the most correct, Shiias believe their interpretation of the Koran is most correct, Theravada Buddhists believe their interpreation of Buddha's teachings are most correct, Mahayana Buddists believe their interpretion of Buddha's teachings are most correct etc.
Westboro Baptists believe their interpretation of the Bible is the most correct, the Taliban believes their interpretation of the Koran is most correct...
In almost all those cases, most of the above also believe that "all other opinions are wrong" and their anger at the other sects leads to schisms and sometimes violence.
People here are only offering their personal opinions and beliefs. Everybody is free to voice theirs or offer a defense or argument for or against other opinions and beliefs.
Last edited by Hack&Lube; 05-15-2011 at 11:41 PM.
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Sometimes I wish other ancient religions had survived to give us more variety in the world. The ancient Norse religions and Mithraic Mysteries have always fascinated me.
I dunno, that just seems like it would be more people to be potentially preachy about beliefs which are kind of cool as legends but not really cool at all when taken as true.
I recently found out that a guy I've had a bunch of conversations with at a small beer house I frequent in Shanghai is a scientologist. He's a nice guy and all and I can totally see how an intergalactic lord blowing up a bunch of aliens in Earth's volcanoes could be cool in a science fiction novel, but it's kind of disturbing when someone actually believes it's true. Religious stories as interesting legends = cool. Religious stories believed to be true = a little bit crazy.
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"If stupidity got us into this mess, then why can't it get us out?"
Sometimes I wish other ancient religions had survived to give us more variety in the world. The ancient Norse religions and Mithraic Mysteries have always fascinated me.
Now that's a church I'd be more then happy to attend on Sundays! Ancient Greek would be pretty sweet too, we could all watch 'Clash of the Titans' and then leave early to golf.
And isn't that how almost every religious denomination sees itself?
"It speaks the most truth of any other bible interpretation. All other opinions are wrong." describes exactly what most religions are and why people are resistive to proselytizing.
Protestants believe their interpretation of the Bible is the most correct, Mormons believe their interpretation of the Bible is the most correct, Adventists believe their interpretation of the Bible is most correct, Jehovah's Witness' believe their interpretation of the Bible is the most correct, Catholics believe their interpretation of the Bible is the most correct, Sunni's believe their interpretation of the Koran is the most correct, Shiias believe their interpretation of the Koran is most correct, Theravada Buddhists believe their interpreation of Buddha's teachings are most correct, Mahayana Buddists believe their interpretion of Buddha's teachings are most correct etc.
Westboro Baptists believe their interpretation of the Bible is the most correct, the Taliban believes their interpretation of the Koran is most correct...
In almost all those cases, most of the above also believe that "all other opinions are wrong" and their anger at the other sects leads to schisms and sometimes violence.
People here are only offering their personal opinions and beliefs. Everybody is free to voice theirs or offer a defense or argument for or against other opinions and beliefs.
You left out a respected group..starts with an "A"
Scoreface, you revealed in the Avery thread how a tragic incident in your life led you to your faith and understanding of Salvation. I think it's terrific that you were able to find peace and contentment out of what undoubtedly was a difficult time in life and wish to share this source of comfort and enlightenment with others.
Where you lose me, and I believe many others on this forum, is where you enter under the pretense of a discussion or conversation, when in reality you arrive with a sermon, albeit very open to feedback and comments by anyone requiring further clarity.
Your beliefs are rooted entirely in your interpretation of the Scriptures you have adopted as truth. And while it is no crime to be confident in your position, you dissuade your audience by refusing to examine their position fully or fairly. And why would you? Your word is God's word, of which you have no doubt or desire to debate, for His is the truth of which you are certain.
To put it in a sporting metaphor (as this is a sports message board) you always have the home court. Others are invited to participate, but on your turf, with your refs and your rules.
Just so you know where I'm coming from, I grew up in a religious family, and graduated from a Christian University. I have friends and family that cover a wide spectrum; conservative, liberal, Christian, Buddhist, atheist, agnostic, etc. And I'm a homosexual.
So naturally it pained me a little to see you enter the Avery thread trumpeting your opinion as the Word of God. Again, there's nothing wrong with being confident in your interpretation and arguing your position. But don't delude yourself into thinking you're engaging anyone. You stick to home court. Your "discussions" are presented as fact and include homework for your readers (Read Romans 5, discover the story of Sodom). You have assumed conclusions based entirely on your canon, with apparently no influence from differing opinions. And the most egregious to me personally was in post # 175 where you said this in reference to same-sex couples:
I have no idea where you found the moral authority to stake this claim. Yes I realize you quoted Romans that shed light on human's inherent sinful nature. And more links to Scripture that labels homosexuality a sin. And then more Scripture that shows God has granted us free will. And from that you have concluded that homosexuality is a choice. Not even a distinction between the act and the orientation. Gays are gay by choice. For so it is Written. No regard for testimony from biologists, psychiatrists, or actual homosexuals. Of course not, because they're not Scripture, of which you've been bestowed the divine interpretation. Home court.
But you show yourself a caring person, lamenting the dismissal of Sportsnet's Damian Goddard for exercising free speech as you state in post #164:
I would reserve a word like "atrocity" for persecution such as the current anti-homosexuality bill of Uganda (a primarily Christian country) that seeks the execution of all discovered homosexuals, the "save our children" campaign of the '70s (spearheaded by Christian advocates) that sought to appeal an ordinance that prohibited sexual orientation discrimination and further deny homosexuals their human rights, or the mass murders of the pink triangle in Nazi-Germany.
These people use Scripture just like you to support their claims. As did those who persecuted people of different color or gender. Interpretations differ and evolve. You wonder why you have faced so much backlash for some of your propositions:
Everyone speaks for themselves. Everyone gets to share their opinion. But you claim to speak for a Higher Power... the Ultimate Power. And you ask people to engage you in discussion. How exactly would they do that?
You found Salvation, and you want others to join you in this experience. That's fantastic.
I would suggest your method of enlightenment is counter-productive. Because although you seek to share the word of God, your pompousness serves as an indignity to those who may be receptive of the message you wish to convey.
I know personally I've always been most inspired by those who let their faith do the talking, not those who talk for their faith.
I guess if I wanted to quote all views of the matter, I'd still be working on it. I don't believe you're quoting all views of the matter yourself and representing a qualified rebuttal. Who can? If we tried, we'd still be here researching and pouring out countless hours trying to prove the other guy wrong.
Look, I respect the fact you attended a Christian University (but are anti-Christian?) Or perhaps you prefer a more 'well-rounded' argument taking into consideration all the facts. Maybe my 'home court' is due to the fact that I opened the thread, but also welcomed discussion.
I'm still somewhat surprised of all people you, who attended Christian University, grew up in a religious family find place to attack what I stated. I sure haven't talked to homosexuals about the matter. I don't know any or haven't looked any up. Why should I? Should I look up people in bondage from every walk of life? They all have one common denominator: Condemnation. I will not quote any more Bible verses, since that appears offensive. However, the strength of sin is the Law, which was given to actually strengthen sin. Maybe you, as a scholar, realize that. Maybe you should realize that when the Gospel was preached in Acts, 3000 were saved in one day (by quoting Scripture, no NT canonized at that time). When the Law was given at Mt. Sinai, 3000 died!!!
Maybe this is the wrong forum to discuss such matters. I don't speak for myself. Do you think all the scripture quoted speaks for myself? I speak for Another. Have you truly invited Him to be your life? You know, the best part of that bingo card in another post is that Christ's free gift of salvation is the middle 'free' space and with it you can exclaim 'Bingo.'
To any who read this, when will your end come? How will you know you are saved? Are you going to base it on the relativism of the world or reach out to the loving arms of Christ. Remember, the outstretched arms are those same arms stretched out on the cross.
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I sincerely wish for a wholehearted discussion, which in my earnest hope I do not wish to condemn. Nor do I proclaim to have all the answers. If I don't, I will do my best or just say 'dunno' 'good question' 'hmmmm..' I just want your input and conversation please. Thank you!
.....
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There's always two sides to an argument, and it's always a tie.
Who the hell is Him? I thought that was some vampire wannabe rocker. Given the rules set down by the bible do you honestly believe you or anyone else are going to heaven even if it did exist? Come on man, the place would be empty! Later on the Christian faithful realized this and so they came up with that if you ask then all your sins will be forgiven. Wtf, seriously? So I can lead a life of sin and rape and pillage and murder whomever I like and when I am on my deathbed I can say "Sorry god, please forgive me, I f'ed up" and I will rise to Heaven right? Did you ever look at it from an outside point of view of not being raised as a Christian and seen just how utterly ridiculous Christianity is?
The 'rules' you mention, do you refer to the Old Testament? Do you qualify? You would I am sure as you stated, say No. Do I? NO. Which is why I say Christ on behalf of us all fulfilled the Law. Again, self-righteousness has no place in light of the efficacy of the redeeming blood of Christ for all man kind. God has forgiven all and is inviting all to receive...As far as He is concerned, sin is done away with and receiving His Beloved Son is all that is left for salvation. It's a blessed and worthy saying (not my words, but of Another) for all eternity...
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The way you ask implies that you know when your end will come. Do you?
How will you know you are saved? Like what will happen to signify that you have been saved? Any specifics?
I don't know when my end will come, that could have worded better perhaps. What I was getting at, is that nobody knows when their end will come. It's very, very serious to me that people respond before it's too late. That is my main concern.
If you read the whole thread, you will know if you are saved or not. You will know you are saved when you have a strong conviction inside for He who took the nails for you. You will know because there will be a joy that can never be taken away. It's a loving conviction based on forgiveness and the righteousness of Christ that lasts forever.
Look, I respect the fact you attended a Christian University (but are anti-Christian?)
Just from past CP threads on religion (and they are legion)...
The number of people in this forum who came from religious backgrounds or families or were raised in religious circles and institutions but have realized the incompatibility of that for their own lives and reasoning may surprise you.
Calgarypuck has many religious topics that come up every now and then a few posters that have gone to religious schools and one that is a biblical scholar (seems to know Hebrew and Greek?) but I'd venture to say that they don't hold your position (again from past threads).
Feel free to quote scripture or anything you like. The level of knowledge of CP about religion is quite high for a hockey forum in Alberta.
I wish I could post as eloquently and intelligently as some of the people who have shown up the past threads but they seem to be staying out of the fray lately.
"... I am not afraid of priests. They have tried upon me all their various batteries of pious whining, hypocritical canting, lying and slandering. I have contemplated their order from the Magi of the East to the Saints of the West and I have found no difference of character, but of more or less caution, in proportion to their information or ignorance on whom their interested duperies were to be played off. Their sway in New England is indeed formidable. No mind beyond mediocrity dares there to develop itself."
- Thomas Jefferson
letter to Horatio Spofford, 1816
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There's always two sides to an argument, and it's always a tie.
so, I was "saved" when I was forced into bible study/sunday school in my early teens.
i figure I've got free reign to do whatever the hell I want, jeebus has my back.
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I’m always amazed these sportscasters and announcers can call the game with McDavid’s **** in their mouths all the time.
) Or perhaps you prefer a more 'well-rounded' argument taking into consideration all the facts. Maybe my 'home court' is due to the fact that I opened the thread, but also welcomed discussion.
