2010/2011 Premier League Thread

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by Barnet Flame

Man U have had the capacity in the past to make mistakes in the transfer market. Having become saddled with debt, that capacity has been greatly reduced hence they have upped their game and are far more effective in the market.

Your first point about Arsenal is wrong, and your second point would carry more weight if you werent always looking up at the team.

Rivalry aside, shouldn't Arsenal generally finish above Spurs? They spend more money every year and have newer/larger digs. For the amount the Gooners spend every year they really should have more hardware.

[Barnet Flame]

Originally Posted by rubecube

Rivalry aside, shouldn't Arsenal generally finish above Spurs? They spend more money every year and have newer/larger digs. For the amount the Gooners spend every year they really should have more hardware.

Spurs spend far more in the transfer market. Both Clubs have similar sized fan bases. A large chunk of the extra revenue generated from the Emirates is being used to pay off the building of the stadium which was the biggest ever capital infrastructure project undertaken by a soccer club.

Financing covenants during the project seriously curtailed Arsenal's involvement as a buyer in the transfer market, but as debts are being reduced ahead of schedule, the Club should be more ambitious in the current transfer market.

[d_phaneuf]

Originally Posted by Barnet Flame

Man U have had the capacity in the past to make mistakes in the transfer market. Having become saddled with debt, that capacity has been greatly reduced hence they have upped their game and are far more effective in the market.

Your first point about Arsenal is wrong, and your second point would carry more weight if you werent always looking up at the team.

I dono that they are more effective to be honest, take out Hernandez and I can't think of one good buy in the past few seasons

they got fleeced on Berba, he is a good player but he wasn't worth anything near 32m

Barthez, Veron, Forlan, Saha, Kleberson

were all terrible

about Arsenal

who have the bought in the past few years that was 'worth it'

Vermaelan is a solid player but he is injured all the time, Chamkah (france) has 7 goals in 28 games this year, Squillaci (france) is terrible, Koscielny (france) hasn't been worth his transfer fee so far

I'll give credit where credit is due, their youth system and training program is the best in the country and Ramsey especially is going to be an absolute stud, but he has been terrible in the transfer market the past two seasons (he had a good 2008 with Nasri (also french), but at 16m he wasn't really a steal). If he had been at least decent the past few seasons and strengthened the teams weaknesses they could have won the title, this year was I think their chance because City are only going to spend more, United will spend a ton this summer as well, and Chelsea/Liverpool/Spurs had bad seasons in the league

[d_phaneuf]

Originally Posted by rubecube

Rivalry aside, shouldn't Arsenal generally finish above Spurs? They spend more money every year and have newer/larger digs. For the amount the Gooners spend every year they really should have more hardware.

Originally Posted by Barnet Flame

Spurs spend far more in the transfer market. Both Clubs have similar sized fan bases. A large chunk of the extra revenue generated from the Emirates is being used to pay off the building of the stadium which was the biggest ever capital infrastructure project undertaken by a soccer club.

Financing covenants during the project seriously curtailed Arsenal's involvement as a buyer in the transfer market, but as debts are being reduced ahead of schedule, the Club should be more ambitious in the current transfer market.

Spurs spend a marginal amount more in the transfer windows on fees

Arsenal spend 50m more a year on wages

the amount of money spent between the two clubs is a huge gap, don't pretend otherwise

[GirlySports]

ManU doesn't buy based on one good tournament they look at the pedigree of the player. They were some mistakes but most are good. They bought Rooney when he was 18. Bought Ronaldo at 18 from Sporting. Bought Tevez at 23 when he was crap for Argentina. Bought Park at 24 for what seemed like just marketing purposes but he's turned into a great player. Hargraves from Bayern, Vidic from Spartak, Evra from Monaco. All great bargains! And as mentioned Hernandez has been great too. Valencia as well.

[Barnet Flame]

Originally Posted by diane_phaneuf

Spurs spend a marginal amount more in the transfer windows on fees

Arsenal spend 50m more a year on wages

the amount of money spent between the two clubs is a huge gap, don't pretend otherwise

I don't pretend otherwise.

Last four seasons - Arsenal average transfer spend = Minus £4m per season - they have been making a profit on transfer fees. Prior to that, it was of a similar amount, but in the couple of minutes I have befor I go to work, this is the best I can do.

Tottenham on the other hand...average net spend of £18m per season. A differential of £21m. Per season.

I anticipate there will be a huge gap in future spending between the two clubs. In fact I hope it happens, that was why us as fans were told we were going to have to endure the crap we have put up with in the lead up and subsequent to moving to the Emirates.

Which incidentally was done while your management produced a couple of shiny computer models of a stadium that never will be built and launched a Judicial Review because you're so desperate to move to Stratford.

Make no mistake, I am one seriously disgruntled Arsenal fan, there are players there that sicken me, but the difference in the direction of travel of Tottenham and Arsenal over the past twenty years has been phenomenal. So much so that if Tottenham were to finish above Arsenal in the table, it would be a HUGE news item.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

Hargraves from Bayern

Hargreaves was purchase solely based on his performance for England at the '06 World Cup, and it's proved to be a terrible buy. How much time has he actually spent on the pitch at United?

[Locke]

Originally Posted by rubecube

Hargreaves was purchase solely based on his performance for England at the '06 World Cup, and it's proved to be a terrible buy. How much time has he actually spent on the pitch at United?

Not to mention, he wasnt exactly a 'bargain.' He wasnt cheap and he hasnt performed.

Either way, every club's got their facepalm purchases. For instance, I will never, ever, forgive Roy Hodgson for buying Paul Konchesky. Not because he was a waste of money, but because as a part of that deal he sent two very highly touted reserves players to Fulham, and after seeing what Kenny is doing with the young players I'm pissed that they're not around.

[Locke]

The Fifth Official:

Gomes, by Jerry Seinfeld
If ever there was a 90-second chapter to illustrate why Tottenham won't be tasting the heady delights of Champions League football again for a while, it arrived at the palace for part-time prevaricators, White Hart Lane, in their struggle with the 'dirtiest dogs in the zone' Blackpool.

It was an instalment of calamity that might as well have been scripted by Jerry Seinfeld given how amusing it was, once again cast Heurelho Gomes in the leading role. After saving one penalty, brilliantly, Gomes was so intoxicated on adrenaline and the buzz of the crowd that he conceded another one straight away just to prolong the feeling. Sadly, Charlie Adam made no mistake second time round, despite the protestations of DJ, and 'Arry was left to ponder whether he'd be better off employing Kramer in goal - at least he has a canny knack of getting there in the nick of time.

Manchester City's defeat at Everton had offered Spurs a tantalising look at the dazzling junk in the Champions League trunk, but their third successive home draw meant it slammed firmly shut. Added to that was a nasty looking injury to delicate flower Gareth Bale after Charlie Adam's vicious stamp on the Welshman's ankle. But, of course, and altogether now: "He's not that type of player."

http://soccernet.espn.go.com/columns...d-down?cc=5901

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by rubecube

Hargreaves was purchase solely based on his performance for England at the '06 World Cup, and it's proved to be a terrible buy. How much time has he actually spent on the pitch at United?

He was good before that. He was a guy not playing in England selected by the England national team. That almost never happens. He was good for the years he played helping them to the 2006/07 double. not a great buy but not a disaster either.

[d_phaneuf]

18m for an injury prone player is a bit of a disaster purchase

he only averaged 20 games a season in his 7 years at Bayern, those are Ledley King/RVP esque numbers

[DeanOMac]

Originally Posted by diane_phaneuf

Spurs spend a marginal amount more in the transfer windows on fees

Arsenal spend 50m more a year on wages

the amount of money spent between the two clubs is a huge gap, don't pretend otherwise

$25 million pounds per year in net spending (which is more fair then pure spending in my opinion, since Tottenham have spent 3 times Arsenal using that measure) is more than marginal in my opinion (from 2006-2011).
http://www.transferleague.co.uk/leag...2006-2011.html

Spurs have spent about 17 million more per year since the Abrahmovic era (2003) and 8 million more since the start of the premier league.

I don't know the differences between the wage bills (either I am blind or they don't separate these from total operating costs in their annual reports), but I am aware Arsenal historically have spent quite a bit more. I know Arsenal's has increased recently, as I imagine spurs has, due to the increased size of their squad.

[d_phaneuf]

Originally Posted by Locke

The Fifth Official:
http://soccernet.espn.go.com/columns...d-down?cc=5901

forgets to mention that in the first penalty conceded Dawson was pushed in the back which is why his hands went up, than in the 2nd penalty gomes arm brushed the blackpool player and it seemingly launched him in the air

but most importantly Charlie Adam shouldn't have been on the pitch after he tried to pull a De Jong on Bale (who is out for 2 months now)

[d_phaneuf]

Originally Posted by DeanOMac

$25 million pounds is a lot more than marginal in my opinion.
http://www.transferleague.co.uk/leag...2006-2011.html

Spurs have spent about 17 million more per year since the Abrahmovic era (2003) and 8 million more since the start of the premier league.

I don't know the differences between the wage bills (either I am blind or they don't separate these from total operating costs in their annual reports), but I am aware Arsenal historically have spent quite a bit more. I know Arsenal's has increased recently, as I imagine spurs has, due to the increased size of their squad.

Post 1240 in this thread has the average wage bill per player of each team, Arsenal's is 50m more than Spurs

Arsenal were 5th in England, Spurs 10th

and even with Spurs spending more in actual transfer fees, its still a 25m gap between the two per season. Quite large

[d_phaneuf]

and Robbie Keane potentially missing the sitter that pushes West Ham down to the championship almost made up for the rest of the results on the weekend

just fantastic stuff

[Addick]

Originally Posted by diane_phaneuf

Spurs spend a marginal amount more in the transfer windows on fees

Arsenal spend 50m more a year on wages

the amount of money spent between the two clubs is a huge gap, don't pretend otherwise

However, one of the reasons why our wage bill is so high is due to the investment in youth/younger players. It's not that we are showering World Class players that we bought in the summer with cash but rather, rightly or wrongly, paying a premium for our younger players to ward off potential suitors.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by diane_phaneuf

forgets to mention that in the first penalty conceded Dawson was pushed in the back which is why his hands went up, than in the 2nd penalty gomes arm brushed the blackpool player and it seemingly launched him in the air

but most importantly Charlie Adam shouldn't have been on the pitch after he tried to pull a De Jong on Bale (who is out for 2 months now)

Okay, I watched that game, first of all, Dawson may have been lighty jarred on conceding the first penalty, but it was hardly a foul, and either way, a CB should know to never, ever, put your hands up when going for a corner.

The Gomes penalty was clear cut. No contact with the ball, and again, if Gomes wasnt butterfingers and actually, oh, I dont know, held the damn ball when he caught it the first time there wouldnt have been a problem.

That Adam tackle on Bale was gruesome. I remember seeing it happen, and I'm largely convinced that Bale is really very fragile, I remember thinking to myself 'has this guy ever finished a whole 90 minutes?'

Then they showed the replay, and that was ugly. That really should have been a red card. Sure, I doubt there was intent there, but even if that was just clumsy that was a bad, bad tackle.

[NBC]

Gomes sucks.

I think that about sums it up.

[DeanOMac]

Originally Posted by diane_phaneuf

Post 1240 in this thread has the average wage bill per player of each team, Arsenal's is 50m more than Spurs

Arsenal were 5th in England, Spurs 10th

and even with Spurs spending more in actual transfer fees, its still a 25m gap between the two per season. Quite large

Originally Posted by Addick

However, one of the reasons why our wage bill is so high is due to the investment in youth/younger players. It's not that we are showering World Class players that we bought in the summer with cash but rather, rightly or wrongly, paying a premium for our younger players to ward off potential suitors.

I never disputed that Arsenal spent quite a bit more, just pointing out that 25 million per year is not marginal. I also don't know this years salaries but I bet the gap closed a bit, however according to Levy's comments about trimming the squad due to the lack of CL revenue, it will probably widen back to this level.

I have heard that Arsenal have the highest paid youth/reserve teams (by quite a bit alledgedly) and a large chunk of our salaries go to these players. This still constitutes a legitimate payroll expense, so I am not saying it should be wiped aside, but I recall our top players historically were underpaid when compared to other top clubs.

I am not disputing that Arsenal have a higher wage structure and probably will for awhile, but I bet if you take actual squads, 25 players as the premier league allows, the gap is a lot closer.

[d_phaneuf]

Originally Posted by Locke

Okay, I watched that game, first of all, Dawson may have been lighty jarred on conceding the first penalty, but it was hardly a foul, and either way, a CB should know to never, ever, put your hands up when going for a corner.

The Gomes penalty was clear cut. No contact with the ball, and again, if Gomes wasnt butterfingers and actually, oh, I dont know, held the damn ball when he caught it the first time there wouldnt have been a problem.

That Adam tackle on Bale was gruesome. I remember seeing it happen, and I'm largely convinced that Bale is really very fragile, I remember thinking to myself 'has this guy ever finished a whole 90 minutes?'

Then they showed the replay, and that was ugly. That really should have been a red card. Sure, I doubt there was intent there, but even if that was just clumsy that was a bad, bad tackle.

Disagree on the dawson thing, jump in the air and have someone touch you in the back. You will always put your arms up to try and steady yourself, it was slight and not worthy of a foul in any other case, but it caused Dawson to put his arms up so it wasn't worthy of a penalty either

Bale does go down a lot, he is a bit soft Harry has called him out on it in the past. But he doesn't get the same calls as other wingers do, even someone like Lennon gets more calls than him. It all depends on how the ref calls the first borderline tackle, if he gives a yellow than it protects the player, if he doesn't than its basically open season. So far this year its been open season on Bale

the whole 'he's not that kind of player' stuff with Adam is wrong, he did the same thing to David Silva earlier this year. Luckily Silva didn't get hurt

how many times must you do something stupid before you become 'that kind of player'