Beloved character actor Osama bin Laden, star of TV's "Fox News", dies age 54

[Weiser Wonder]

Originally Posted by troutman

Michael Moore (I know, I know) said it was "un-American" to kill Bin Laden without a trial. Nazis were given trials. Does he make a good point?

Perhaps they did intend to capture him alive, until they met resistance.

I'd say that yes it is Un-American but it's really hard to care. What's really un-American and needs to stop is what's going on in Guantanamo Bay right now. That's not something Western countries do.

[JBR]

My guess at what "capture or kill" missions means.. is that the first option is arrest, but if he moves 1 inch.. double-tap. It sounds like the Mrs. lunged and was shot in the leg, then he must have moved (whether it be to a weapon, or whether he was just crapping his robes), and received and upper body injury.

It's always the woman's fault..

[BigBrodieFan]

Originally Posted by valo403

I think keeping him alive could have been highly beneficial from an intelligence perspective, the guy obviously would have had a lot to spill if you could have gotten it out of him. At the same time, this wasn't a few local cops breaking up a loud party. The notion that they could go in there and just slap some cuffs on him is pretty outlandish.

I think keeping him alive would have outraged his followers because they would demand for his release, and I think that a situation where the United States is holding/interrogating/torturing Bin Laden would put our troops in even more danger than they are in now that he's been killed.

I had a conversation with a friend of mine last night who's son is in Afghanistan in the US Army. I was going on about the story changing, if they should show the pictures, if they should have kept him alive..yadayada and she stopped me and said 'My kid is over there. I am so glad Osama's dead because now maybe he can come home. I honestly hope that Bin Laden's pictures aren't shown because I am so worried.'

It really hit me. I can't imagine what it's like to have a kid/relative/husband/wife over there right now. I think killing him was the right thing to do opposed to keeping him and bringing him back.

[Cowperson]

Originally Posted by troutman

Michael Moore (I know, I know) said it was "un-American" to kill Bin Laden without a trial. Nazis were given trials. Does he make a good point?

Perhaps they did intend to capture him alive, until they met resistance.

The USA stopped taking prisoners in this fight a long time ago, but particularly accelerated in the Obama administration.

The population of Gitmo is not rising and that's for sure.

I don't think there was any chance Bin Laden was coming back alive simply because that has been the overwhelming trend.

When a window of opportunity opened to strike the leader of al-Qaeda in East Africa last September, U.S. Special Operations forces prepared several options. They could obliterate his vehicle with an airstrike as he drove through southern Somalia. Or they could fire from helicopters that could land at the scene to confirm the kill. Or they could try to take him alive.

The White House authorized the second option. On the morning of Sept. 14, helicopters flying from a U.S. ship off the Somali coast blew up a car carrying Saleh Ali Nabhan. While several hovered overhead, one set down long enough for troops to scoop up enough of the remains for DNA verification. Moments later, the helicopters were headed back to the ship.

The strike was considered a major success, according to senior administration and military officials who spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss the classified operation and other sensitive matters. But the opportunity to interrogate one of the most wanted U.S. terrorism targets was gone forever.

The Nabhan decision was one of a number of similar choices the administration has faced over the past year as President Obama has escalated U.S. attacks on the leadership of al-Qaeda and its allies around the globe. The result has been dozens of targeted killings and no reports of high-value detentions.

Although senior administration officials say that no policy determination has been made to emphasize kills over captures, several factors appear to have tipped the balance in that direction. The Obama administration has authorized such attacks more frequently than the George W. Bush administration did in its final years, including in countries where U.S. ground operations are officially unwelcome or especially dangerous. Improvements in electronic surveillance and precision targeting have made killing from a distance much more of a sure thing. At the same time, options for where to keep U.S. captives have dwindled.


http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...021303748.html

Cowperson

[mikey_the_redneck]

Originally Posted by valo403

At the same time, this wasn't a few local cops breaking up a loud party. The notion that they could go in there and just slap some cuffs on him is pretty outlandish.

The notion that Osama Bin Laden is some hardcore warrior is pretty outlandish also..

OBL had Marfan Syndrome, as well as kidney disease. He was a sick, dying man.

http://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&source...IBPMSyz5RNSyJg

If this is all legit he could have been captured. The news agencies are now saying he didn't use a woman as a human shield, and he was unarmed.

[MacGruber]

the torture debate is an interesting one. far right conservatives refuse to give up the 2nd amendment right for guns even if it means things being safer for all americans

yet for torture, they dont mind peoples rights being thrown out the window for the safety of all. do terrorists have rights? this is a false question others and more will and have asked. if your taken off the street and labelled as a terrorist with no trial the rule of law has already been defeated.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by mikey_the_redneck

The notion that Osama Bin Laden is some hardcore warrior is pretty outlandish also..

OBL had Marfan Syndrome, as well as kidney disease. He was a sick, dying man.

http://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&source...IBPMSyz5RNSyJg

If this is all legit he could have been captured. The news agencies are now saying he didn't use a woman as a human shield, and he was unarmed.

By all accounts he had the usual AK and Makerov in the room with him, as does every other adult male in that region, so he wasn't unarmed, the other males in the house were also armed

The US had no authority to capture or kill him without Pakistani permission to be honest so taking him alive would have left the yanks open to claims of kidnapping with the associated long running legal action etc. it also makes it easier for their allies in the Pakistani goverment, a dead Osama leaves them with much less they can be preasured over internally.

By killing him they reduce the Pakistani reaction to a few diplomatic complaints.

[jar_e]

Originally Posted by mikey_the_redneck

The notion that Osama Bin Laden is some hardcore warrior is pretty outlandish also..

OBL had Marfan Syndrome, as well as kidney disease. He was a sick, dying man.

http://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&source...IBPMSyz5RNSyJg

If this is all legit he could have been captured. The news agencies are now saying he didn't use a woman as a human shield, and he was unarmed.

Pretty sure that the Marfan Syndrome thing was purely rumour...best site I could find with medical history was this ( http://www.doctorzebra.com/prez/a_binladen.htm )...

There is an often-repeated statement, not "supported by firm evidence," that bin Laden has Marfan syndrome, e.g.

[mikey_the_redneck]

Originally Posted by jar_e

Pretty sure that the Marfan Syndrome thing was purely rumour...best site I could find with medical history was this ( http://www.doctorzebra.com/prez/a_binladen.htm )...

I don't think of it as a rumour.

Dr. Steve Pieczenik (who has tons of credibility) confirmed that OBL had both renal disease and marfan syndrome. He personally saw his CIA medical file, and met OBL in person many years ago.

http://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&source...YiA8tu5k7qk_ww

"Pieczenik served as a Deputy Assistant Secretary of State and/or Senior Policy Planner under Secretaries Henry Kissinger, Cyrus Vance, George Schultz and James Baker."

This guy is extremely interesting. He has experience in counter-terrorism, psychological warfare, black operations etc. He is also credited for being a co-creator of Tom Clancy books. Harrison Ford's character in Patriot Games was based on Mr. Pieczenik. He is also a former member of the CFR and consulted the RAND corporation, and currently consults the military.

He insists that OBL was dead at the end of 2001 (from kidney disease/marfan syndrome), and that this recent death announcement is a total fabrication, and a psy-op on the American people. He also claims that a general who worked under Wolfowitz told him that 9-11 was a "false flag-stand down" black operation, and that he would be willing to reveal this general to a federal grand jury, as well as other details.

[jar_e]

Originally Posted by mikey_the_redneck

I don't think of it as a rumour.

Dr. Steve Pieczenik (who has tons of credibility) ....

He insists that OBL was dead at the end of 2001 (from kidney disease/marfan syndrome), and that this recent death announcement is a total fabrication, and a psy-op on the American people. He also claims that a general who worked under Wolfowitz told him that 9-11 was a "false flag-stand down" black operation, and that he would be willing to reveal this general to a federal grand jury, as well as other details.

Yeah Mikey...your last paragraph pretty much tells me this guy has no credibility...but a convenient source for you no doubt. Are you able to provide any sort of source that he had marfan syndrome?

[firebug]

See above ^

[Flashpoint]

Originally Posted by Schultzie

Do you really think this (or at least the US pretending that Bin Laden was still alive) is that far-fetched?

Not me. Michael Moore

[jar_e]

Furthermore...just a quick google search of this Dr. Steve Pieczenik guy comes up with these gems...

Dr. Steve R. Pieczenik Says America Needs A Second American Revolution

America needs a new peaceful revolution says Dr. Steve Pieczenik...

He is now using his experience and knowledge to help the American people get rid of the state terrorists and government liars in Washington's political/banking/war establishment. This deceptive and secretive establishment killed nearly 3,000 Americans on September 11, 2001, and then shipped off many more Americans to their untimely deaths in a criminal and fraudulent war on terrorism that was artificially created based on lies and deception, and should have never been started.

Pieczenik has appeared on the Alex Jones show all throughout this week, exposing
the politically staged announcement of Osama Bin Laden's death, and
calling 9/11 a false flag operation that was secretly conducted by Dick
Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld, Condoleezza Rice, Richard Myers, George Bush, Paul Wolfowitz, Richard Perle, and other members of the Bush administration. Pieczenik says that a
military general who served under Wolfowitz told him that 9/11 was a
false flag, and that he will reveal more information in court once Bush
administration officials are charged with war crimes, state terrorism,
and crimes against humanity.

Top Government Insider: Bin Laden Died In 2001, 9/11 A False Flag

Back in April 2002, over nine years ago, Pieczenik told the Alex Jones Show that Bin Laden had already been “dead for months,” and that the government was waiting for the most politically expedient time to roll out his corpse. Pieczenik would be in a position to know, having personally met Bin Laden and worked with him during the proxy war against the Soviets in Afghanistan back in the early 80′s.
Pieczenik said that Osama Bin Laden died in 2001, “Not because special forces had killed him, but because as a physician I had known that the CIA physicians had treated him and it was on the intelligence roster that he had marfan syndrome,” adding that the US government knew Bin Laden was dead before they invaded Afghanistan.

“It’s a total make-up, make believe, we’re in an American theater of the absurd….why are we doing this again….nine years ago this man was already dead….why does the government repeatedly have to lie to the American people,” asked Pieczenik.

Dismissing the government’s account of the assassination of Bin Laden as a “sick joke” on the American people, Pieczenik said, “They are so desperate to make Obama viable, to negate the fact that he may not have been born here, any questions about his background, any irregularities about his background, to make him look assertive….to re-elect this president so the American public can be duped once again.”

[chemgear]

Wait, Bush covered up OBL's death so that Obama could reveal it years later in order to let him handwave distract from his actual birth location?!?!

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by mikey_the_redneck

I don't think of it as a rumour.

Dr. Steve Pieczenik (who has tons of credibility) confirmed that OBL had both renal disease and marfan syndrome. He personally saw his CIA medical file, and met OBL in person many years ago.

Originally Posted by jar_e

Furthermore...just a quick google search of this Dr. Steve Pieczenik guy comes up with these gems...

Dr. Steve R. Pieczenik Says America Needs A Second American Revolution

Top Government Insider: Bin Laden Died In 2001, 9/11 A False Flag

LOL. Oh, mikey....

[ken0042]

Originally Posted by mikey_the_redneck

{snip]
BTW I'm absolutely sure OBL is dead ....just that he has been dead for a number of years now.

Originally Posted by mikey_the_redneck

The notion that Osama Bin Laden is some hardcore warrior is pretty outlandish also..

OBL had Marfan Syndrome, as well as kidney disease. He was a sick, dying man.

So which is it; in your opinion? Was he a sick, dying man; or has he been dead for years?

[Zevo]

Originally Posted by ken0042

So which is it; in your opinion? Was he a sick, dying man; or has he been dead for years?

He needs to do a quick google search. He'll get back to you on that one.

[VladtheImpaler]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

Same country who wants war, same Republican Party, same Presidential name, same people who will profit from war (over used but still true, the military industrial complex).

Let's tie a bow on all this... The whole thing is organized by Mr. Bettman...

[mikey_the_redneck]

Originally Posted by ken0042

So which is it; in your opinion? Was he a sick, dying man; or has he been dead for years?

I said in the other thread a few days ago that OBL was dead years ago.......and that he was sick back then from his ailments.

LOL Zevo ...........you so funny!

[mikey_the_redneck]

Originally Posted by chemgear

Wait, Bush covered up OBL's death so that Obama could reveal it years later in order to let him handwave distract from his actual birth location?!?!

If the military industrial complex wants the wars to go on indefinately, what advantage does it serve to reveal that OBL was dead not long after 9-11? The American people may have demand that the wars be ended.

There was speculation among democrats that Bush would use OBL as a political tool before the 2004 election, but all his administration ended up doing was releasing the OBL video tapes.