2011 Canadian Election Thread

[evman150]

As a member of the LPC, I am considering voting NDP.

Not that it makes any difference in my riding, which is an NDP landslide already.

[Frequitude]

Originally Posted by peter12

I've been talking about this over with my colleagues at work. I wonder if given a choice between being the junior partner in an NDP/Bloc coalition and the junior partner with the Conservatives, the Libs might just swallow 20 years of rhetoric and posturing.

Both parties are really substantially centre-right, and would actually have common ground on virtually everything. The vast breadth of the Liberal base that remains would never, ever go over to the NDP.

I don't want to jump the gun here, but we might be seeing a very substantial realignment of Canadian democracy here.

A Liberal-Conservative partnership really does make the most sense.

[WilsonFourTwo]

Originally Posted by Frequitude

What's to like about a platform long on "whats" and short on "hows"?

If a platform is set on a shoddy foundation, is it really a platform?

Within the context of the current election, the NDP platform is as solid as the Liberal or Conservatives. They all promise a trip to the moon, but fail to really explain how it'll happen.

This was actually my big beef during the last election. We're expected to choose based a party based on on sound-bytes instead of speeches.

[Cowboy89]

Originally Posted by WilsonFourTwo

Within the context of the current election, the NDP platform is as solid as the Liberal or Conservatives. They all promise a trip to the moon, but fail to really explain how it'll happen.

This was actually my big beef during the last election. We're expected to choose based a party based on on sound-bytes instead of speeches.

Yeah but when faced with reality of finances, the Conservatives are more likely to cancel the trip to the moon, the Liberals more likely to revise the trip to the moon down to a trip into orbit, and the NDP would go to Mars on credit.

[crazy_eoj]

Originally Posted by SebC

I'm only arguing semantics because you keep repeating the same equivocation.

A Green voter has no more impact on the makeup of our parliament than a child who doesn't get to vote at all.

That's patently untrue. A green voter gets to vote, the same as every other franchised Canadian. Their vote is counted with every other vote, and along with those votes is how the parliament is set. Each vote is equal to every other vote.

A child doesn't get any input into the makeup of our parliament.

If you don't beleive it, don't vote. But pretending votes aren't counted doesn't mean that they are not counted.

[crazy_eoj]

Originally Posted by WilsonFourTwo

Within the context of the current election, the NDP platform is as solid as the Liberal or Conservatives. They all promise a trip to the moon, but fail to really explain how it'll happen.

This was actually my big beef during the last election. We're expected to choose based a party based on on sound-bytes instead of speeches.

The NDP platform promises increased spending of over 60 billion dollars with no rational explanation of how to pay for it. No mention of ever returning to balanced budgets. It looks like a Greek government proposal.

Both the Liberal and Conservatives at least discuss returning to balanced budgets.

[MarchHare]

The Liberals made a fatal mistake by adopting a more left-wing platform this election. It's no surprise they're losing ground to the NDP because voters are seeing their platform as "NDP-lite", so why not just vote for the real thing?

What they should have done is propose a centrist platform that contrasts against both the CPC and the NDP -- a return to the days of the Chretien/Martin Liberal governments only without the scandals. Business-friendly, fiscally conservative balanced budgets, a strong economy, and a focus on paying down the debt, but progressive on social issues.

As it is now, I really feel like I'm in the political wilderness this campaign with no party really representing my values.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

Never underestimate the ability of the NDP to destroy an economy.

Not to mention that the NDP parachuted a couple Edmontonians into Calgary ridings just so they can collect some vote subsidy money. They aren't even campaigning.

The parachuting isn't as big a deal as you're making it out to be. It happens fairly regularly, both at the provincial and federal levels for all parties.

Originally Posted by Cowboy89

Yeah but the rules of math and our current birthrates suggest that those 3 votes against getting railed in taxes will get out voted by the 5 boomers and other elders that are pissed about not recieving the quantity and quality of entitlements they envisioned and were promised by previous Conservative, Liberal, and (shudder) impending NDP governments.

The only way to claw back entitlements is to not give them out in the first place or hack them to the bone before a majority of people get hooked by their tenticles. Which is why I'm voting CPC, because I believe them less when they talk about spending more on things.

Thats true, and unfortunate. I'm already tired of paying and we're not even there yet!

[Slava]

Originally Posted by crazy_eoj

The NDP platform promises increased spending of over 60 billion dollars with no rational explanation of how to pay for it. No mention of ever returning to balanced budgets. It looks like a Greek government proposal.

Both the Liberal and Conservatives at least discuss returning to balanced budgets.

Well I think that its closer to $30 Billion....but ya its a lot of money!

[Jedi Ninja]

NDP now trail Cons by only 3 points: (Yikes!)

http://news.nationalpost.com/2011/04...ew-poll-finds/

[crazy_eoj]

Originally Posted by Slava

Well I think that its closer to $30 Billion....but ya its a lot of money!

In the middle of us both actually. From their platform directly:

Annual Expenditure Totals (millions)

2011-12 8,998
2012-13 12,701
2013-14 12,586
2014-15 14,466

TOTAL: 48 751

[burn_this_city]

Hmmm should I start looking at job postings in the middle east..?

[Ark2]

nm

[MarchHare]

Originally Posted by Ark2

Sigh... are Canadians really this stupid?

I don't agree with much of the NDP platform, particularly when it comes to the economy and fiscal responsibility, but applying blanket labels like "stupid" to their supporters isn't helpful for our political discourse. The same is true for Conservative, Liberal, and Bloc voters. Everyone has a reason for choosing one party/candidate over another; just because it's not a reason you agree with doesn't make them stupid.

Unless we're discussing Sarah Palin, in which case her supporters really are that stupid.

[Ark2]

Originally Posted by MarchHare

I don't agree with much of the NDP platform, particularly when it comes to the economy and fiscal responsibility, but applying blanket labels like "stupid" to their supporters isn't helpful for our political discourse. The same is true for Conservative, Liberal, and Bloc voters. Everyone has a reason for choosing one party/candidate over another; just because it's not a reason you agree with doesn't make them stupid.

Unless we're discussing Sarah Palin, in which case her supporters really are that stupid.

I edited my post but it seems not soon enough. I don't think that my question is wrong to ask, but I'd rather not try my luck with any more infractions. I'll ask this though, when every economist in North America is saying that raising corporate taxes will not increase tax revenue and that is it something that they are advising against, how can so many people be in support of it? How can a platform that doesn't address the budget at all be something that people consider to be "very solid"? We are just climbing out of a recession now and people are already looking to support the party that will spend the most money and do it irresponsibly. I'm not really sure how one should view these people.

[Cowboy89]

Originally Posted by burn_this_city

Hmmm should I start looking at job postings in the middle east..?

If you're in the oil patch, there is but one certainty of a NDP minority or NDP/Liberal coalition majority and that is utter extinction of our good fortune of the past decade.

Cap and trade plus the end of 'subsidies' (which is really just accelerated depreciation that every other industry gets to enjoy in a different form), plus a ban on tanker traffic on the west costs pretty much means that the value of all of our upstream oil companies would pretty much get ripped in half (Since a lot of the value in our companies is based on future expectations). So cash out your options on Monday, sell your shares in Oil and gas stocks, and bank stocks. Put those proceeds into US stocks, real return bonds, bank preferred stock and the typical oligopoly utility companies like Bell, Rogers, and Telus (The NDP support stricter Canadian ownership regulations for telecom companies from the CRTC).

Those who over leveraged on Calgary Real Estate and bought above their means, or bought multiple properties on high leverage will be bankrupted. Prices will crash by a lot. We're going to be reduced to Winnipeg status. A lot of the economic buzz around here at the moment centers around the massive amount of money that is getting spent on capital expenditures investing in future growth in the oil sands over the next few decades. Simply maintaining what we have (Productionwise) takes an awful lot less employees and at much lower salaries. This is an economic disaster for Alberta.

[Table 5]

^ Sweet, maybe I could afford to move back to Calgary again!

[edn88]

God help us all if the NDP gets into power. I'd rather have corrupt Liberal party...

[burn_this_city]

Originally Posted by Cowboy89

If you're in the oil patch, there is but one certainty of a NDP minority or NDP/Liberal coalition majority and that is utter extinction of our good fortune of the past decade.

Cap and trade plus the end of 'subsidies' (which is really just accelerated depreciation that every other industry gets to enjoy in a different form), plus a ban on tanker traffic on the west costs pretty much means that the value of all of our upstream oil companies would pretty much get ripped in half (Since a lot of the value in our companies is based on future expectations). So cash out your options on Monday, sell your shares in Oil and gas stocks, and bank stocks. Put those proceeds into US stocks, real return bonds, bank preferred stock and the typical oligopoly utility companies like Bell, Rogers, and Telus (The NDP support stricter Canadian ownership regulations for telecom companies from the CRTC).

Those who over leveraged on Calgary Real Estate and bought above their means, or bought multiple properties on high leverage will be bankrupted. Prices will crash by a lot. We're going to be reduced to Winnipeg status. A lot of the economic buzz around here at the moment centers around the massive amount of money that is getting spent on capital expenditures investing in future growth in the oil sands over the next few decades. Simply maintaining what we have (Productionwise) takes an awful lot less employees and at much lower salaries. This is an economic disaster for Alberta.

Pretty much what I think, aside from the good financial advice. I wonder how the provincial government would react to an NDP PM.

[Table 5]

Come on, does anybody really expect the NDP to win or even come in second place? Canadians are naive, but let's not get crazy.

Originally Posted by WilsonFourTwo

I hardly doubt they'd be able to bankrupt the nation, but I can't help but wonder if they'd kick-start some (useful) environmental initiatives?

This is perhaps the only reason I would ever even think about voting for the NDP. While I know it's sacrilegious to even mention it in Alberta, I'd little more emphasis placed on solving the greater environmental issues of our day. And yes, that includes ways of minimizing the impact of the oil sands.