2011 Canadian Election Thread

[Ozy_Flame]

Originally Posted by Ark2

If Layton becomes PM, then I'm moving to the US.

Hahaha . . . A friend from Montreal told me that if Duceppe became Prime Minister, he'd move to Canada.

[WilsonFourTwo]

Originally Posted by Ark2

If Layton becomes PM, then I'm moving to the US.

Don't worry about that.

There's a real possibility (likelihood?) that Jack Layton becomes opposition leader, but plans to occupy the PMO are far fetched to say the least.

Still.....part of me wonders what a one/two year NDP minority could do? I hardly doubt they'd be able to bankrupt the nation, but I can't help but wonder if they'd kick-start some (useful) environmental initiatives? I could see a 12-month NDP minority as useful in reinvigorating/refocusing both the Right and Left.

[Shazam]

Originally Posted by Ark2

If Layton becomes PM, then I'm moving to the US.

You have to do it before he puts in the moving away tax.

[Frequitude]

Liberals get what they deserve for bringing this election upon us. Idiots.

I can't believe there are this many god damned socialists in this country.

[WilsonFourTwo]

Originally Posted by Frequitude

Liberals get what they deserve for bringing this election upon us. Idiots.

I can't believe there are this many god damned socialists in this country.

Ya.....Education, Medicine and Security are real hassles.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not in favor of an NDP Government, but I don't see a problem with their message getting airtime as well. The NDP carry a solid message that represents a large group of Canadians.....no harm in that message being heard.

And people love to complain about "Socialism" and "Paying Taxes to pay for everyone else", but NOBODY would move to a country called "Free for all" or "Screw everyone else".

[Ark2]

Originally Posted by WilsonFourTwo

Ya.....Education, Medicine and Security are real hassles.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not in favor of an NDP Government, but I don't see a problem with their message getting airtime as well. The NDP carry a solid message that represents a large group of Canadians.....no harm in that message being heard.

And people love to complain about "Socialism" and "Paying Taxes to pay for everyone else", but NOBODY would move to a country called "Free for all" or "Screw everyone else".

They perpetuate the age of entitlement and they only degrade government. Why can't we have a party that offers to reduce spending and table a fiscally conservative budget? Because parties like the NDP come along and promise everyone the moon, thereby making fiscal conservatism undesirable.

[rubecube]

As someone who has always been in the centre to centre-right, I'm actually considering voting NDP this election. Their platform seems to be the most focused and, like others have mentioned, no way they can bankrupt the country with a minority government. That said, my only caveat with voting NDP is that I can't stand Layton.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by Ark2

They perpetuate the age of entitlement and they only degrade government. Why can't we have a party that offers to reduce spending and table a fiscally conservative budget? Because parties like the NDP come along and promise everyone the moon, thereby making fiscal conservatism undesirable.

I think we only need to look South of the border to see how well fiscal conservatism has turned out.

[Slava]

I don't think that fiscal conservatism is dead, and nor should it be. Eventually though the baby boomers and the entitled thinking is going to grind to a halt. When you look ahead a decade or so and see that about 3/10 people are going to be working and paying for the other 7....who are collecting CPP/OAS as well as using healthcare more and more you're likely to see a motivated group of voters who are not willing to maintain those programs.

[Frequitude]

Originally Posted by WilsonFourTwo

Ya.....Education, Medicine and Security are real hassles.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not in favor of an NDP Government, but I don't see a problem with their message getting airtime as well. The NDP carry a solid message that represents a large group of Canadians.....no harm in that message being heard.

And people love to complain about "Socialism" and "Paying Taxes to pay for everyone else", but NOBODY would move to a country called "Free for all" or "Screw everyone else".

1) The NDP don't have a patent on Education, Medicine and Security.
2) Conservatives and Liberals aren't promoting a free for all.

The NDP just take those issues reallllly far. It comes down to economics. I'm frightened by the cost of the NDP's promises.

Originally Posted by rubecube

As someone who has always been in the centre to centre-right, I'm actually considering voting NDP this election. Their platform seems to be the most focused and, like others have mentioned, no way they can bankrupt the country with a minority government. That said, my only caveat with voting NDP is that I can't stand Layton.

Agreed, very focused. But a focused platform can also be be unfeasible.

[SebC]

Originally Posted by crazy_eoj

Another semantical argument.

Their votes are counted exactly the same way as anyone else. Ignoring their representation does not mean they are not represented.

I'm only arguing semantics because you keep repeating the same equivocation.

A Green voter has no more impact on the makeup of our parliament than a child who doesn't get to vote at all.

[chemgear]

Originally Posted by Frequitude

I can't believe there are this many god damned socialists in this country.

Too many old, lazy and entitled people. Though not necessarily all at once in a particular individual.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by rubecube

As someone who has always been in the centre to centre-right, I'm actually considering voting NDP this election. Their platform seems to be the most focused and, like others have mentioned, no way they can bankrupt the country with a minority government. That said, my only caveat with voting NDP is that I can't stand Layton.

Never underestimate the ability of the NDP to destroy an economy.

Not to mention that the NDP parachuted a couple Edmontonians into Calgary ridings just so they can collect some vote subsidy money. They aren't even campaigning.

[WilsonFourTwo]

Originally Posted by Ark2

They perpetuate the age of entitlement and they only degrade government.

First part, agreed. Second part, not so much.

I love the fact that the fringe/far-left is represented by its own party. It helps keeps the Liberal party honest. We used to have that on the right as well......

Why can't we have a party that offers to reduce spending and table a fiscally conservative budget?

I hear ya. We used to have a great party that had both fiscal capability and a sense of civic duty......

Because parties like the NDP come along and promise everyone the moon, thereby making fiscal conservatism undesirable.

I think that's giving the NDP a bit too much credit. I think fiscal conservatism will always be less popular. The notion of "Make the next generation pay for it" has been around a lot longer than our nation has.....

I go back to my initial suggestion that an NDP opposition wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing. I think it would result in different (likely social/environmental) issues getting a lot more emphasis. That might be a refreshing change in Ottawa......perhaps even kick-start some cooperation?

[Cowboy89]

Originally Posted by Slava

I don't think that fiscal conservatism is dead, and nor should it be. Eventually though the baby boomers and the entitled thinking is going to grind to a halt. When you look ahead a decade or so and see that about 3/10 people are going to be working and paying for the other 7....who are collecting CPP/OAS as well as using healthcare more and more you're likely to see a motivated group of voters who are not willing to maintain those programs.

Yeah but the rules of math and our current birthrates suggest that those 3 votes against getting railed in taxes will get out voted by the 5 boomers and other elders that are pissed about not recieving the quantity and quality of entitlements they envisioned and were promised by previous Conservative, Liberal, and (shudder) impending NDP governments.

The only way to claw back entitlements is to not give them out in the first place or hack them to the bone before a majority of people get hooked by their tenticles. Which is why I'm voting CPC, because I believe them less when they talk about spending more on things.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by WilsonFourTwo

I love the fact that the fringe/far-left is represented by its own party. It helps keeps the Liberal party honest. We used to have that on the right as well......

No, not really. Other than the ten-year period where western conservatives broke away from eastern, the right has mostly been unified.

[WilsonFourTwo]

Originally Posted by Frequitude

1) The NDP don't have a patent on Education, Medicine and Security.
2) Conservatives and Liberals aren't promoting a free for all.

The NDP just take those issues reallllly far. It comes down to economics. I'm frightened by the cost of the NDP's promises.

Just to be clear, I wasn't trying to take a potshot or anything. I think that (amongst the three main federalist parties), the NDP tend to focus their energies on Education, Health Care and Environment. That could lead to an interesting shift in topics within the Commons.

And it absolutely comes down to economics. I wouldn't give the Dippers a majority government if my life depended on it. As I mentioned earlier today, I really liked their revamped platform......but I don't really believe the numbers.

[Pinner]

Free Tickets


I have four Box Tickets to give away for anyone that wants to see Robbie Knievel perform at BC Place in Vancouver.


Robbie will use a CAT D9T with a 16 foot U-Blade and attempt to jump over 10,000 Liberal and NDP supporters.

[SebC]

Originally Posted by peter12

I've been talking about this over with my colleagues at work. I wonder if given a choice between being the junior partner in an NDP/Bloc coalition and the junior partner with the Conservatives, the Libs might just swallow 20 years of rhetoric and posturing.

Both parties are really substantially centre-right, and would actually have common ground on virtually everything. The vast breadth of the Liberal base that remains would never, ever go over to the NDP.

I don't want to jump the gun here, but we might be seeing a very substantial realignment of Canadian democracy here.

The way I see it is that it depends on the Conservatives. If they perceive the NDP as the greater threat, they may be more willing to work with the Liberals. If that happens, then the Liberals become the swing vote, which, even with reduced numbers, is a fantastic position to hold.

Originally Posted by starseed

I still get the feeling that we are looking at a conservative majority. They are looking at exactly the same numbers, with the only change being how the left vote will be further split. I would think that the conservatives are not going to lose many votes, and that will translate into more victories in close ridings. Most importantly, the conservatives are looking at better numbers than before in Ontario.

The 'Orange Wave' is going to be largely moot, and the government is only going to end up going further right... which is ironic.

NDP support has been largely counter-productive for the left for a long time, but that may change if they become the second place party on a riding level.

[Frequitude]

Originally Posted by WilsonFourTwo

Just to be clear, I wasn't trying to take a potshot or anything. I think that (amongst the three main federalist parties), the NDP tend to focus their energies on Education, Health Care and Environment. That could lead to an interesting shift in topics within the Commons.

And it absolutely comes down to economics. I wouldn't give the Dippers a majority government if my life depended on it. As I mentioned earlier today, I really liked their revamped platform......but I don't really believe the numbers.

What's to like about a platform long on "whats" and short on "hows"?

If a platform is set on a shoddy foundation, is it really a platform?