CBE to trim 200-250 jobs

[Shazam]

Originally Posted by Yasa

So, whether or not teaching is an easy job or not, is the CBE justified in this job-trimming?

Not with that gigantic monstrosity of an office building going up.

I'm sure somebody will state that money isn't fungible, thus breaking every economic rule there is.

[SebC]

Originally Posted by Ashartus

I don't think that's the case in teaching, aside from the first couple of years when they don't have permanent contracts. In fact teachers have relatively high starting wages and low wages for senior staff compared to most professions.

The first couple of years fall into the first five years, no?

Originally Posted by jolinar of malkshor

Where are all the extra hours that teachers work after their shift that are not counted? Equals out.

How many hours a week do teachers work, not counting after-hours grading or whatever?

[Jedi Ninja]

Originally Posted by Shazam

18 is supposedly below average now. Some places offer 21.

We're probably not going to agree about teachers... but I think we can all agree that working O & G is, in fact, the cushiest gig going.

[Shazam]

Nah, teaching sucks. But I don't feel sorry for them.

O&G is cushy. Jesus, I think it's Sliver that has the bojillion stock options in the money. What the hell is she whining about?

[Rubicant]

As a teacher, I can confirm that it can be a very difficult job at times - depending on the classes that you get. Getting 25 - 30 fifteen year olds to not only behave in a reasonable manner but actually learn something they hate for 75 minutes on top of it is a challenge.

In terms of hours worked per year it is not as much as virtually every other profession however, so it's tough to argue that fact.

In terms of salary, I would say that the current compensation is fair. I don't think that I am hard done by at all, but I don't think teachers are overpaid for their education and value added to society.

I've seen the justification of salary like so: (Math is simplified - it's just a fun example)

I actually teach students (not extra supervision) for an average of 4 hours per day. I have on average 25 students in each class. Therefore I am responsible for 100 student hours per day. That would be 500 student hours per week worked. I work for 39 weeks per year, which works out to 19500 student hours per year.

A completely untrained babysitter makes what... 5$ per hour per kid? So for the babysitting services I provide, I should theoretically charge $97500 per year, simply to babysit these kids. Given that even the highest paid teacher makes less than that, I'm throwing in the teaching of math and physics for free.

Sounds like a pretty good deal to me

[crazy_eoj]

Originally Posted by Shazam

18 is supposedly below average now. Some places offer 21.

I think you guys are way off base. Im at a junior producer and everyone here gets 4 weeks no flex days at all. There's no way most companies offer 4 weeks worth of flex days on top of Vacation. Would love to hear from an HR person if any are around.

UPDATE: So I called up a friend in HR and she said that entry level ( < 3 yrs experience) in a downtown office job is currently averaging 3 weeks vacation and 10 flex days; or 4 weeks vacay and 5 flex days but basically its the same thing.

[crazy_eoj]

Originally Posted by Shazam

Not with that gigantic monstrosity of an office building going up.

I'm sure somebody will state that money isn't fungible, thus breaking every economic rule there is.

I agree with you there, its certainly not the front line workers that should be losing their job.

The amount of waste in administration and planning for education is immense. The Cushiest jobs in the world have to be the Union leaders!

[anyonebutedmonton]

I Work in a large midstream office (Crude Marketing).

When I was hired in 2009 I got 3 weeks of holidays a year and 12 flex.

Asking around, most companies seem to be fairly similar.

[Shazam]

Originally Posted by crazy_eoj

I think you guys are way off base. Im at a junior producer and everyone here gets 4 weeks no flex days at all. There's no way most companies offer 4 weeks worth of flex days on top of Vacation. Would love to hear from an HR person if any are around.

UPDATE: So I called up a friend in HR and she said that entry level ( < 3 yrs experience) in a downtown office job is currently averaging 3 weeks vacation and 10 flex days; or 4 weeks vacay and 5 flex days but basically its the same thing.

Work at a better place

What can I tell you? Companies had to increase benefits. Hell, my wife's salary has doubled in the past four years. And like I said in another thread, top 'geers make $250K a year. Managers get 200% bonuses.

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by Rubicant

As a teacher, I can confirm that it can be a very difficult job at times - depending on the classes that you get. Getting 25 - 30 fifteen year olds to not only behave in a reasonable manner but actually learn something they hate for 75 minutes on top of it is a challenge.

In terms of hours worked per year it is not as much as virtually every other profession however, so it's tough to argue that fact.

In terms of salary, I would say that the current compensation is fair. I don't think that I am hard done by at all, but I don't think teachers are overpaid for their education and value added to society.

I've seen the justification of salary like so: (Math is simplified - it's just a fun example)

I actually teach students (not extra supervision) for an average of 4 hours per day. I have on average 25 students in each class. Therefore I am responsible for 100 student hours per day. That would be 500 student hours per week worked. I work for 39 weeks per year, which works out to 19500 student hours per year.

A completely untrained babysitter makes what... 5$ per hour per kid? So for the babysitting services I provide, I should theoretically charge $97500 per year, simply to babysit these kids. Given that even the highest paid teacher makes less than that, I'm throwing in the teaching of math and physics for free.

Sounds like a pretty good deal to me

Great post, thanks.

[Kybosh]

Originally Posted by Shazam

Work at a better place

What can I tell you? Companies had to increase benefits. Hell, my wife's salary has doubled in the past four years. And like I said in another thread, top 'geers make $250K a year. Managers get 200% bonuses.

Whenever salaries and benefits come up, I think that the oil & gas people downtown should not be included in any comparisons aside from with other oil & gas (especially people at providers). That industry is so out of whack compared to everything else.

Starting vacations and time off for most jobs outside of oil & gas are 2 to 3 weeks with minimal (if any) flex days. Starting teacher salaries here in Alberta are quite a bit higher than other starting salaries but the cap is also lower than other professions.

[Handsome B. Wonderful]

I offer my congratulations to teachers for insisting on getting those increased raises a year ago, look where its got you now.

[Slava]

I know this is off topic now, but here is the latest ridiculousness from the CBE as dealt with by one current trustee http://blog.sheilataylor.ca/

I have no idea how they come to the conclusion that you can't vote on the budget if you have children in the system....seems like you should need to have kids in the system to be taken seriously!

[ma-skis.com]

Originally Posted by Handsome B. Wonderful

I offer my congratulations to teachers for insisting on getting those increased raises a year ago, look where its got you now.

it's your kid who ends up suffering not the teachers, they got the raise remember?

On a more serious note, pretty sure that raise was in a contract agreed to by the government, and was based on inflation so about 4%. so why would teachers give up 4% when the government is in tough, if bonuses aren't offered when things are good? Where's the balance there?

I agree with rubicant that teachers are paid fairly, but I also don't think that the time off each year makes teaching the "sweetest gig ever".

[SebC]

Originally Posted by ma-skis.com

On a more serious note, pretty sure that raise was in a contract agreed to by the government, and was based on inflation so about 4%. so why would teachers give up 4% when the government is in tough, if bonuses aren't offered when things are good? Where's the balance there?

4% inflation? The Bank of Canada does a pretty good job keeping inflation in the 1-2% target range.

[ma-skis.com]

Originally Posted by Sliver

Great post, thanks.

agreed, probably the middle ground (and rationale voice) between our two points of view, i was throwing some stuff out there that was a bit sarcastic to make a point, i don't actually think corporate is that cushy, just a different type of challenge for a different type of person

Originally Posted by SebC

4% inflation? The Bank of Canada does a pretty good job keeping inflation in the 1-2% target range.

sorry based on Alberta Average Weekly Earnings

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by Sliver

An assumption isn't evidence. That's basic.

I've got an assumption based on evidence... you work like a dog in the private world, and here you are arguing with a bunch of strangers about how easy teachers have it in the middle of a weekday.

I also work in the corporate world, and it's a cakewalk every day. I've also worked as a teacher, and it wasn't.

Regarding all the "time off" teachers get, you realize of course that their business has shut down and they don't have any customers when they get holidays and summers off, and they get paid for 9 months a year.

There are no students. Would you be happier to pay them to show up for work when there are no students?

[chid]

As someone who just graduated with an Education degree I can answer some questions regarding new teachers. We all get interviews with school boards (in Calgary specifically) and we are then told if we "passed" that stage and have been accepted into a pool of teacher candidates. From there we can sit in that pool waiting for a temporary teaching contract which likely won't ever happen - most of these people find other jobs. You could also be a lucky teacher who is offered a Substitute teaching contract - pretty self-explanatory. And the even luckier few get offered a temporary teaching contract with a school to cover some sort of leave (maternity/sick etc).

Temporary contracts are for a designated amount of time. After that they can go and substitute teach. After gosh knows how long a teacher who is subbing may be offered a probationary contract.

Not an easy process, really difficult to get into, and with the cuts its pretty discouraging for new grads who are the ones super eager to inspire students and introduce new ways of teaching.

[bcb]

Sliver,
What is it you do for a living?

[bcb]

Originally Posted by chid

As someone who just graduated with an Education degree I can answer some questions regarding new teachers. We all get interviews with school boards (in Calgary specifically) and we are then told if we "passed" that stage and have been accepted into a pool of teacher candidates. From there we can sit in that pool waiting for a temporary teaching contract which likely won't ever happen - most of these people find other jobs. You could also be a lucky teacher who is offered a Substitute teaching contract - pretty self-explanatory. And the even luckier few get offered a temporary teaching contract with a school to cover some sort of leave (maternity/sick etc).

Temporary contracts are for a designated amount of time. After that they can go and substitute teach. After gosh knows how long a teacher who is subbing may be offered a probationary contract.

Not an easy process, really difficult to get into, and with the cuts its pretty discouraging for new grads who are the ones super eager to inspire students and introduce new ways of teaching.

I feel terrible for teachers who are graduating from U of C this year. Interestingly, I noticed on the U of C website the application deadline to enter the B.Ed program next year has been extended two months. Something tells me people are now seeing the writing on the wall.

The nice thing is that this is all cyclical. In a couple of years, (hopefully) funding should be restored and they'll be hiring teachers again with the same gusto they were four years ago. Hang in there.