CBE to trim 200-250 jobs

[Reggie Dunlop]

From reading this thread, I think there is an urgent need for more English teachers.

[SebC]

Originally Posted by flamingreen

After 5 years half of all teachers quit. The teacher's colleges talk about it, the province talks about it, the school boards talk about it, the education academics talk about it, the union talks about. You can say that you don't believe it but that doesn't mean it isn't a serious problem that is going on in the profession.

Maybe it's because young teachers get a bum deal compared to those who have seniority? Less stable exmployment, less compensation, less attractive positions. So maybe it's not a cushy gig when you're starting out, but it turns into one if you stick with it. In that case, the union and overcompensation for senior union members may part of the problem.

[bizaro86]

Teachers teach for ~200 days per year, plus work another ~10 days at the beginning of the year/teachers convention, total of ~210 workdays.

Oil company employees work 48 weeks*5 days per week = 240 days, minus 24 fridays off (2 per month) minus 9 stat holidays =~207 work days. Granted 4 weeks plus 2 fridays a month is probably the more generous side of the industry, but a lot of people get 3 weeks vacation plus a bunch of flex days, which still only puts them working 10-15 days per year more than a teacher.

[SebC]

Originally Posted by Finny61

Maybe it is a sweet gig because its damn hard to secure a permanent role?

Maybe its damn hard to secure a permanent role because it is a sweet gig? <- fixed

[flamingreen]

Originally Posted by Sliver

It's not that I don't believe it, but I am skeptical. Do you have an unbiased Canadian link, or am I just supposed to take your word for it? In this thread people on your side of the debate have ranged their guess from 30% - 50%, so I think it's reasonable for me to by suspect of it.

What kind of unbiased source are you looking for? The only people that are going to look at teacher retention rates are people directly affected by them. Do you think Education Alberta wants to publish a report that says half of all teachers are quitting after 5 years, what benefit does that provide them?

I just graduated from an education program and the issue of teacher retention was something I ran into on a daily basis throughout the two years. In fact, during one of my practicums I saw a 4th year teacher wrestle with leaving the profession daily. They quit for any number of reasons; burnout, lack of mentorship, lifestyle, lack of classroom support (something these cuts will affect greatly), etc, etc.

[bizaro86]

Originally Posted by SebC

Maybe it's because young teachers get a bum deal compared to those who have seniority? Less stable exmployment, less compensation, less attractive positions. So maybe it's not a cushy gig when you're starting out, but it turns into one if you stick with it. In that case, the union and overcompensation for senior union members may part of the problem.

This is definitely true. They're not talking about layoffs, so the old battle axe teachers will still be there coasting into retirement. But the fresh University grad with energy, new ideas, who cares about the kids and puts in long hours will see her probationary contract not renewed.

Thanks ATA. "Won't somebody think of the children!?!?!?!"

[crazy_eoj]

It would be really interesting to see the number of Education degrees granted vs jobs for any given year as well. I think that many regard Education as an 'easy' university degree program but when the rubber hits the road the job is actually much tougher than many anticipate.

Of course this is true in many professions. How does education rack up vs communications or commerce? What is the average worker retention rate in 5 years of any given undergraduate degree?

[SebC]

Originally Posted by bizaro86

Teachers teach for ~200 days per year, plus work another ~10 days at the beginning of the year/teachers convention, total of ~210 workdays.

Oil company employees work 48 weeks*5 days per week = 240 days, minus 24 fridays off (2 per month) minus 9 stat holidays =~207 work days. Granted 4 weeks plus 2 fridays a month is probably the more generous side of the industry, but a lot of people get 3 weeks vacation plus a bunch of flex days, which still only puts them working 10-15 days per year more than a teacher.

The Fridays off come from working extra hours during the week. They shouldn't count.

[bizaro86]

Originally Posted by SebC

The Fridays off come from working extra hours during the week. They shouldn't count.

I'll split the difference, because: 52 weeks*5 days/week*0.5 hours/day=130 hours extra worked

24 fridays off *8 hours = 192 hours off

That's ~8 days extra off that aren't being made up.

[crazy_eoj]

Originally Posted by bizaro86

I'll split the difference, because: 52 weeks*5 days/week*0.5 hours/day=130 hours extra worked

24 fridays off *8 hours = 192 hours off

That's ~8 days extra off that aren't being made up.

Where are you getting your fridays off figure from?

The average vacation period in a starting downtown Calgary office job (ie less than 5 years), according to the UofC career center is 4 weeks including all flex days.

[Shazam]

Wife gets 4 weeks (might be five now) and 18 flex days.

Encana gave out every other fridays off a few years ago, no idea if they still have it.

[crazy_eoj]

Originally Posted by Shazam

Wife gets 4 weeks (might be five now) and 18 flex days.

Encana gave out every other fridays off a few years ago, no idea if they still have it.

Did she just come out of University?

EnCana is famous for the very most days off in the entire industry. It would be folly to pretend they are the average.

[jolinar of malkshor]

Originally Posted by Sliver

You're right, we did determine this in another thread. It was three months.

Here's the link to the CBE page.

Obviously you didn't learn anything in that thread then...I feel sorry for you, did you eat paint chips when you were a kid?

[Ashartus]

Originally Posted by SebC

Maybe it's because young teachers get a bum deal compared to those who have seniority? Less stable exmployment, less compensation, less attractive positions. So maybe it's not a cushy gig when you're starting out, but it turns into one if you stick with it. In that case, the union and overcompensation for senior union members may part of the problem.

I don't think that's the case in teaching, aside from the first couple of years when they don't have permanent contracts. In fact teachers have relatively high starting wages and low wages for senior staff compared to most professions.

[Locke]

Okay, why is teaching such a contentious issue? Every time we have this discussion it breaks down into a 'teaching is a cushy gig and they're overpaid whiners' versus 'they nurture and educate the future leaders of our society.'

Why cant we all just get along? No one liked school, it stands to reason that for every 'inspirational' teacher we all experienced a plethora of mini-Stalins.

That must be it.

[jolinar of malkshor]

Originally Posted by SebC

The Fridays off come from working extra hours during the week. They shouldn't count.

Where are all the extra hours that teachers work after their shift that are not counted? Equals out.

[Shazam]

Originally Posted by crazy_eoj

Did she just come out of University?

No, but everybody gets the 18 flex days. I think employees start off with three weeks now.

EnCana is famous for the very most days off in the entire industry. It would be folly to pretend they are the average.

Encana was bleeding employees because on average people didn't like working there. This was part of their attempt to retain people.

[bizaro86]

Originally Posted by crazy_eoj

Did she just come out of University?

EnCana is famous for the very most days off in the entire industry. It would be folly to pretend they are the average.

3 weeks vacation plus a bunch of flex days has got to be around the minimum at this point for O&G professionals at the producing companies.

[Shazam]

18 is supposedly below average now. Some places offer 21.

[Yasa]

So, whether or not teaching is an easy job or not, is the CBE justified in this job-trimming?