Roughnecks on verge of folding

[valo403]

Originally Posted by Flames in 07

I guess it depends on the mgmt agreement. Maybe they have exclusive rights to the concessions, or at least the discretion on how to distribute its revenue.

Yeah, there's a lot of maybe there. The Flames obviously see some value, I'm just not sure that the notion they can use the Roughnecks as a way to boost their concession revenue is totally accurate.

[Flames in 07]

Originally Posted by valo403

Yeah, there's a lot of maybe there. The Flames obviously see some value, I'm just not sure that the notion they can use the Roughnecks as a way to boost their concession revenue is totally accurate.

i don't know if they can or can't. But I do know the Flames see way more value in that franchise than BB does simply because BB doesn't have access to all the revenue streams.

[Dion]

nm

[browna]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

Roughnecks have now confirmed interest from the Flames.

http://www.ilindoor.com/2011/02/24/r...private-talks/

After the Wednesday media back and forth with Banister, first not denying Flames interest, then calling the paper to deny, its clear he figured out he could get more mileage and his name in the paper again the next day by holding back this info until today and put it in yet another "press" release.

What are the chances he gets through the weekend without yet another "update" from him? Maybe scold Stelmach for not attending a game?

[corporatejay]

Originally Posted by valo403

Why does everyone think the Flames would be entitled to all the revenues from concession etc.? Does the Flames lease entitle them to everything at the Dome? Do they get all the revenues from other events like concerts? I know they manage the arena, but that doesn't mean they get every penny that comes in. Anyone have more info on this?

I can't be sure but I think every time the Flames get "flack" for wanting a new building there is buzz about how they have a sweetheart deal on the 'dome. Free rent and concession I think, the only thing they don't get is the parking.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by corporatejay

I can't be sure but I think every time the Flames get "flack" for wanting a new building there is buzz about how they have a sweetheart deal on the 'dome. Free rent and concession I think, the only thing they don't get is the parking.

I've ehard that, just wondering how far it extends. It would be one heck of a deal if they get all the revenues from other events in the dome, concerts alone would bring in a small fortune in concessions and merchandising splits.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by valo403

Why does everyone think the Flames would be entitled to all the revenues from concession etc.? Does the Flames lease entitle them to everything at the Dome? Do they get all the revenues from other events like concerts? I know they manage the arena, but that doesn't mean they get every penny that comes in. Anyone have more info on this?

Yes. The Flames pay the city a flat fee, and in return, get all revenues the building generates. As far as concessions goes, the Flames themselves operate the concessions, so while Bannister is whining about not getting concession revenue, he's not mentioning how he has no concession expenses.

To add, the Flames' deal also makes them responsible for building maintenance and upgrades. The power ring and new jumbotron, for example, were paid for by the Flames, not the city or the Saddledome Foundation.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

Yes. The Flames pay the city a flat fee, and in return, get all revenues the building generates. As far as concessions goes, the Flames themselves operate the concessions, so while Bannister is whining about not getting concession revenue, he's not mentioning how he has no concession expenses.

To add, the Flames' deal also makes them responsible for building maintenance and upgrades. The power ring and new jumbotron, for example, were paid for by the Flames, not the city or the Saddledome Foundation.

Thanks. I'm curious, where did you get this info from? I'm assuming you didn't google it a few minutes ago, it's just something that I've always seen as the assumed reality without really knowing where that was coming from. Not living in Calgary I often miss things like this.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by valo403

Thanks. I'm curious, where did you get this info from? I'm assuming you didn't google it a few minutes ago, it's just something that I've always seen as the assumed reality without really knowing where that was coming from. Not living in Calgary I often miss things like this.

News stories over the years. The Saddledome itself has a mural on the 1995 upgrades that includes a couple newspaper articles of the time. I've got copies of some of the stories at home.

[Julio]

valo, as usual Resolute has the good on this stuff, and said it better than I could...all staff working in the Saddledome are either directly Flames employees (most concessions, security, cleaning and all the FanAttic staff) or contracted companies who do the work for the Flames, such as the Pocket Dawg concession, concert 'T-Shirt security' or the medical staff from Stampede Park.

All this happened back in 1995 when the Flames took over the operation of the Saddledome from the Calgary Stampede. A lot of the staff in the 'Dome has been there a long time, and actually worked for Stampede before the split.

[Resolute 14]

This was the 1994 deal that expires in 2014, which has been repeatedly noted as the target date for a new rink:

-Flames bought out the Stampede's management contract for $20 million
-Flames and the Stampede split the $6 million cost of new luxury suites
-The Saddledome Foundation put $7 million into infrastructure upgrades that the Flames would have to pay for if they break the contract
-Flames contribute minimum of $600,000 per year to amateur sport in the city
-Flames assume all maintenance costs, and costs of all future renovations

This was actually a huge improvement for the Flames, as the original 1983 deal saw them take in only 15% of concessions, 50% of suites and 70% of in-rink advertising, while the Stampede skimmed 10% of the Flames' ticket sales. As of 1994, the Flames accounted for 70% of the building's revenues, so they were definitely losing on the original contract. (all this from the Calgary Sun, March 20, 1994)

One of the biggest reasons why the Hitmen played in the Dome instead of the Corral was the fact that the Flames, as new managers of the arena, wanted to fill more dates. It is also why the team bought the Hitmen and did yeomans work building the team from a joke into one of the premier junior franchises in the country. One can only hope they might do the same for the Roughnecks.

Speaking of which, the owner of the Rush has "assured" the public that the Roughnecks will finish the season: http://www.calgarysun.com/sports/oth.../17414456.html

Bannister says Urban hasn't helped finance the team, but (a) I believe very little of what Bannister says, and (b) if the Roughnecks fold, Edmonton's costs go up, and they lose a good drawing card.

[browna]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

Speaking of which, the owner of the Rush has "assured" the public that the Roughnecks will finish the season: http://www.calgarysun.com/sports/oth.../17414456.html

Bannister says Urban hasn't helped finance the team, but (a) I believe very little of what Bannister says, and (b) if the Roughnecks fold, Edmonton's costs go up, and they lose a good drawing card.

TBQH, I'd put very little stock in Urban's words, as his ego over shadows most everything he says as well.

He was the guy who pretended that he was going to swoop in and save the Stamps if/when Hellard and Forzani dropped out, as the sale to them was taking a bit longer than expected 6 years ago. And, he wanted to keep Dunigan and Rooke. Seen him a few times and is about as slick as they come too.

Anything at all for either of guys to get their name in the paper...3 days in a row now for Banister...Banister not so subtly dropping in the name of Urban's company in the article, and Urban convinced lacrosse is going to be around for 20 years.

Couldn't trust either guy as far as I could throw them, as far as being honest and truly upfront about the situation.

[Lil Pedro]

What kind of attendance have the Roughnecks been drawing this year?

[shermanator]

Originally Posted by Lil Pedro

What kind of attendance have the Roughnecks been drawing this year?

Average attendance is 10398 according to http://www.pointstreak.com/prostats/...&seasonid=3260

[Resolute 14]

Turnstile count is no higher than 6000 from what I understand though. In short, they are still fairly good for the NLL, but an owner lacking deep pockets and the added cost of being in an isolated area of the league hurt.

[Azure]

6000 average is still good.

10,000 average is awesome.

[Resolute 14]

Indeed. If Bannister was actually selling 10k tickets, the team would be considered a huge success financially.

[CaramonLS]

Honestly I think the media (and roughnecks PR to be sure) had quite a bit to do with the financial troubles of the team this year.

I didn't even know the season had begun until I started hearing about this situation being talked about on 960 (and I do listen to 960 quite often).

[Resolute 14]

Depends on which stations you listen to. Some of the Roughnecks - especially Kaleb Toth - are on CJAY all the time.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by CaramonLS

Honestly I think the media (and roughnecks PR to be sure) had quite a bit to do with the financial troubles of the team this year.

I didn't even know the season had begun until I started hearing about this situation being talked about on 960 (and I do listen to 960 quite often).

Not sure how you can blame the media for that, it's not their responsibility to conduct the Roughnecks advertising campaigns for them.