2011 NFL Playoffs Thread

[Pagal4321]

Hey valo, it's called an opinion and we are all entitled to it. You seem to be taking it personally but given the reputation of the player at hand and the way he looked on the sideline just pouting like he always does, people are going to criticize. Thankfully, Cutler has thicker skin than you.

[HOOT]

Originally Posted by valo403

Who gives a #### about optics?

No one. That's why it's not all over the paper, TV and internet. Are you new to watching sports? It's all about the optics!

People who were actually at the game said that even guys like Urlacher were pleading with him to come back in the game. I have no doubt in my mind if it was 14-0 CHI when he got hurt Cutler would have finished the game. His team looked down and out so he just gave up and just sat there like a tool feeling sorry for himself. There are a ton of guys who have played through a lot worse and even with that injury he was probably a better option than Collins/Haine.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by HOOT

No one. That's why it's not all over the paper, TV and internet. Are you new to watching sports? It's all about the optics!

People who were actually at the game said that even guys like Urlacher were pleading with him to come back in the game. I have no doubt in my mind if it was 14-0 CHI when he got hurt Cutler would have finished the game. His team looked down and out so he just gave up and just sat there like a tool feeling sorry for himself. There are a ton of guys who have played through a lot worse and even with that injury he was probably a better option than Collins/Haine.

oh I see Hoot MD has arrived, nice to see you. Where did you get your medical degree? Actually, more importantly, when exactly did you get to evaluate the extent of Cutler's injury?

[valo403]

Originally Posted by Pagal4321

Hey valo, it's called an opinion and we are all entitled to it. You seem to be taking it personally but given the reputation of the player at hand and the way he looked on the sideline just pouting like he always does, people are going to criticize. Thankfully, Cutler has thicker skin than you.

Actually it's not an opinion when it's being passed off as the truth.

[HOOT]

I think valo is Cutler's cousin or something.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by HOOT

No one. That's why it's not all over the paper, TV and internet. Are you new to watching sports? It's all about the optics!

People who were actually at the game said that even guys like Urlacher were pleading with him to come back in the game. I have no doubt in my mind if it was 14-0 CHI when he got hurt Cutler would have finished the game. His team looked down and out so he just gave up and just sat there like a tool feeling sorry for himself. There are a ton of guys who have played through a lot worse and even with that injury he was probably a better option than Collins/Haine.

To be fair, and realize i am no jay Cutler fan of any degree, he was pulled by the medical people not by himself.

Smith said team trainers and doctors concurred that Cutler couldn't continue after playing only one series in the third quarter because of the knee injury.

"Jay hurt his knee. He couldn't go. He tried to go," Smith said. "Jay was disappointed that he couldn't go out and play and help his team win."
Under persistent questioning about Cutler's injury, Smith said, "Hey, guys: He hurt his knee, and he was out. All right? There's nothing else for me to tell you on that. I don't know exactly when it happened. He couldn't go, we moved on. Let's go to some other questions."

Cutler said afterward that he was unable to plant his foot and throw, and hoped the injury will not require surgery.

"I was going to keep playing," Cutler said of the team's decision to go to backup Todd Collins. "We taped it up (at halftime), warmed it up a little bit and gave it a shot, but couldn't do it."

http://www.chicagobreakingsports.com...xx-xxxxxx.html

This is all about "perception" instead of reality. People dont like Cutrler, think he is pouty, has a bad attitude, didnt talk to the rookie,etc. That's fine as he has earned that all by himself.

However, in this particular case, it is entirely unfair and untrue that he quit on the team. He was hurt....period. Bad enough that doctors told coaches he couldn't go any longer. An MRI confirmed that. It happens. Its football.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by HOOT

I think valo is Cutler's cousin or something.

Nice job of not actually addressing the issues.

[HOOT]

Originally Posted by valo403

Nice job of not actually addressing the issues.

Yes because your post really needed a reply...right?

My opinion is Cutler is a #####, you won't change that and neither will what his team says. What are they going to say?

[Pagal4321]

Originally Posted by valo403

Actually it's not an opinion when it's being passed off as the truth.

What's being passed off as the truth? That people think he quit on the team, that people think he should have manned up and returned to the game, that people are ragging on him?

I could have sworn those were all opinions.

[FlamingLonghorn]

Originally Posted by HOOT

People who were actually at the game said that even guys like Urlacher were pleading with him to come back in the game.

Source? This is the stupidest thing I ever heard. Even if they saw Urlacher talking to Cutler how the hell did they know what he was saying? I have no love for Cutler (look a couple pages back I call him a ######), but even I am on his side on this one.

Edit: Have they always censored ######? I was unaware it was a bad word. Am I allowed to say Summer's Eve?

[valo403]

Originally Posted by Pagal4321

What's being passed off as the truth? That people think he quit on the team, that people think he should have manned up and returned to the game, that people are ragging on him?

I could have sworn those were all opinions.

That he was medically able to play

[valo403]

Originally Posted by HOOT

Yes because your post really needed a reply...right?

My opinion is Cutler is a #####, you won't change that and neither will what his team says. What are they going to say?

So what you're saying is that you don't have a clue as to the severity of his injury, but you're going to go ahead and determine that he was medically able to play based on your complete lack of knowledge? That seems like a sound argument.

[Pagal4321]

Originally Posted by valo403

That he was medically able to play

Where is anyone talking about medical fact? Everyone is saying he should have sucked it up and got back into the game instead of looking disinterested on the sidelines. Want to see what an injured player who wants to come back into the game looks like, see Markice Pouncey. On crutches, visibly getting upset after the botched snap that caused a safety.

Oh right, maybe we didn't see a clip of him getting upset on the bad QB plays, but here we are back to the optics of the matter. But I get it, you don't think the optics matter.

Players, analysts and fans alike that are going after Cutler think that he could have played through the pain and gone back into the NFC CHAMPIONSHIP game.

Is this a PR mistake by the Bears, maybe? Is Cutler going to be forever known as a quitter and a p***y, yes. Is he? That's doubtful considering he played through Type II diabetes with Denver and never missed a snap.

But the fact that you are going on a tirade about people's opinion is getting to a comical stage now.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by Pagal4321

Where is anyone talking about medical fact? Everyone is saying he should have sucked it up and got back into the game instead of looking disinterested on the sidelines. Want to see what an injured player who wants to come back into the game looks like, see Markice Pouncey. On crutches, visibly getting upset after the botched snap that caused a safety.

Oh right, maybe we didn't see a clip of him getting upset on the bad QB plays, but here we are back to the optics of the matter. But I get it, you don't think the optics matter.

Players, analysts and fans alike that are going after Cutler think that he could have played through the pain and gone back into the NFC CHAMPIONSHIP game.

Is this a PR mistake by the Bears, maybe? Is Cutler going to be forever known as a quitter and a p***y, yes. Is he? That's doubtful considering he played through Type II diabetes with Denver and never missed a snap.

But the fact that you are going on a tirade about people's opinion is getting to a comical stage now.

That highlighted portion right there is not an opinion, that's saying that he was medically able to play. There's no gutting it out through the pain when you can't plant to throw. It's not about pain tolerance or guts, it's about the physical ability to actually perform a task. You can't suck it up in that situation. If it is phyically impossible to perform the task it is physically impossible to perform the task. There's no 'oh a tougher guy would have done it' with that.

As for the optics, I guarantee you that if we got a feed of Pouncey's mannerisms throughout the entire game I could put together a minute of clips that show him looking disinterested. Of course we'll never get that, but the point is you can very easily cherry pick a couple clips to tell the story you want to tell.

And now you went and made me thank a post by Moon, that's unforgiveable

[moon]

Originally Posted by Pagal4321

Players, analysts and fans alike that are going after Cutler think that he could have played through the pain and gone back into the NFC CHAMPIONSHIP game.

Then those people are idiots.

Amazing how people can make medical judgements on others with 0 training, 0 knowledge of the medical history and by looking at someone on the TV.

The fact that how he was acting on the sidelines is now taken into consideration on whether he could go back in or whether he is tough is laughable at best.

[Pagal4321]

Originally Posted by valo403

That highlighted portion right there is not an opinion, that's saying that he was medically able to play.

This is where we will agree to disagree. When someone says "Well he could have toughed it out and played through the pain", that is someones opinion. There's no medical or factual backing to that.

Maybe I'm the only one who thinks that way.

Regardless now that a player like Drew Brees has come out and said he's played with an injured MCL all season, this story will never die.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by Pagal4321

This is where we will agree to disagree. When someone says "Well he could have toughed it out and played through the pain", that is someones opinion. There's no medical or factual backing to that.

Maybe I'm the only one who thinks that way.

Regardless now that a player like Drew Brees has come out and said he's played with an injured MCL all season, this story will never die.

How is there no medical or factual backing to that? You can't make that statement without knowing the extent of the injury or pretending to know the extent of the injury. It's simply impossible to know if he could have come back in without that information. There's no grey area there at all. An opinion isn't a statement that presumes an unknown to be a fact.

If he could have physically performed and chose not to the criticism is justified, but you and all the other people calling him out don't actually know that to be the case now do you?

And read what Brees said, not all MCL injuries are created equal.

[HOOT]

Originally Posted by Sowa

Source? This is the stupidest thing I ever heard.

It was said on Around the Horn yesterday. One of the reports, can't remember who now, mentioned he was at the game and witnessed it.

Also if that's the stupidest thing you have ever heard you need to get out more.

Originally Posted by valo403

So what you're saying is that you don't have a clue as to the severity of his injury, but you're going to go ahead and determine that he was medically able to play based on your complete lack of knowledge? That seems like a sound argument.

Exactly the same thing you are doing. Unless you got you're a MD and have checked out Cutler to prove he was so injured he couldn't come back in. His team and teammates can't say anything but what they are saying. So right now it's only Cutler who really knows what he could and couldn't do. Pretty easy to know the right things to say to a doctor so they say you can't go anymore. I have no doubt in my mind he threw that last pick and just said f-it.

[Displaced Flames fan]

Originally Posted by HOOT

Yes because your post really needed a reply...right?

My opinion is Cutler is a #####, you won't change that and neither will what his team says. What are they going to say?

So I am supposed to believe that Urlacher, who has never been one to bite his tongue or offered cliched answers; who ran down arguably the greatest player in Chicago Bears history in the media.....lied to protect Jay Cutler on Sunday when he really believed Cutler could have gone back in?

I am getting tired of the prevalent use of the phrase "What are they going to say?" whenever someone wants to discount a statement made by a sports figure.

[moon]

Originally Posted by HOOT

Exactly the same thing you are doing. Unless you got you're a MD and have checked out Cutler to prove he was so injured he couldn't come back in. His team and teammates can't say anything but what they are saying. So right now it's only Cutler who really knows what he could and couldn't do. Pretty easy to know the right things to say to a doctor so they say you can't go anymore. I have no doubt in my mind he threw that last pick and just said f-it.

If his teammates thought he was faking or weak then Kreutz didn't have to make up a story about how bad his knee and that the guy shouldn't have tried to come back out.

He could have gone with a cliched answer but instead someone who was actually close to the player explained the situation.

Now I know this isn't as valuable or inciteful as what genius' like MJD and Darnell Dockett saw from their couches but I will go with the Bears center when it comes to how bad his knee was over those two morons.