Congresswoman and 17 others shot in Arizona

[mikey_the_redneck]

Originally Posted by MarchHare

Except in this specific case that we're currently discussing (and not all cases, granted), one side clearly is fueling the fire of violence-themed political rhetoric much more than the other. You've got your head in the sand and are committing the fallacy of false equivalence if you think both sides are equally guilty of this.

I don't think we are giving the left enough credit for their violent rhetoric.

If you consider that the global warming scam/cap and trade is a leftist policy, there has been some violence coming from those extremes as well.

Some examples are James Jay Lee, the guy who took hostages and tried to blow up the Discovery Channel building. There were several families that committed suicide and/or shot their kids as a result of hardcore environmental fear mongering, and that disturbing global warming alarmist commercial with the people being blown up for not reducing their carbon footprint.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5-Mw5_EBk0g

Yikes...I'd call that violent rhetoric as well.

[Tinordi]

Originally Posted by Flabbibulin

Somehow, I don't think all those donkeys violently protesting events such as the G8, the WTO and so on are "right wing party" voters...

To suggest there aren't yahoos on both sides of the political spectrum is crazy.

Get a clue. Those left wing anarchists have more ideologically in common in the right wing in many instances than the Democratic party. That article posted previously still stands quite tall.

One side, Republicans, deliberately invoke violent imagery for political gain. Your comment is just out to lunch.

This issue is not a case of everyone should take a step back. This is about one group of politics and ideas having to take a good hard look at themselves and the type of society that they want to perpetuate.

[Tinordi]

Originally Posted by mikey_the_redneck

I don't think we are giving the left enough credit for their violent rhetoric.

If you consider that the global warming scam/cap and trade is a leftist policy, there has been some violence coming from those extremes as well.

Some examples are James Jay Lee, the guy who took hostages and tried to blow up the Discovery Channel building. There were several families that committed suicide and/or shot their kids as a result of hardcore environmental fear mongering, and that disturbing global warming alarmist commercial with the people being blown up for not reducing their carbon footprint.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5-Mw5_EBk0g

Yikes...I'd call that violent rhetoric as well.

That's a huge stretch. People who are concerned about global warming are perpetuating violence in the same way that gun tootin right wing tea partiers are and at the same scale? Not even close.

[Calgaryborn]

Originally Posted by Gozer

The argument is not historic, that the left is always right.
The argument is not idealogical, that the right wing is more violent.
Those sentiments are NOT being offered.

What is being suggested is that one party finished an 8-year Presidency with an unmitigated disaster. Knowing the steep road back to political legitimacy, that same party is now endorsing a message of fear and hate directed at an innately historic President in an effort to leave voters desolate and willing to latch on to whatever wave they ride in 2012.
Palin potentially fits in with this. Depends how she is perceived in a year.

If you want to see hate just look at Michelle Malkins 2000-2010 primer:
http://michellemalkin.com/

The left is being very hyprocritical considering their record. Palin and the tea party are not the ones creating an atmostphere of hate.

[Calgaryborn]

Originally Posted by Tinordi

That's a huge stretch. People who are concerned about global warming are perpetuating violence in the same way that gun tootin right wing tea partiers are and at the same scale? Not even close.

There has been no arrests at any tea party rally. Considering the number of people involved that is pretty impressive. The only arrests at the summer town hall meetings were when some Union workers in union shirts ruffed up a tea party participant. No one pull a gun on them let alone used it.

Again if you want to see what hate looks like just click on this link:

http://michellemalkin.com/

[Stimpy]

Originally Posted by Calgaryborn

Again if you want to see what hate looks like...

Favorite conservative shirts right now.




http://www.thoseshirts.com/tshirts.html

Neither side are innocent in the battle of inflammatory speech or images. This stuff has to end, and soon.

[mikey_the_redneck]

^^That is the worst they could come up with?

I saw 3 signs that I thought were over the line, but the rest aren't that bad.

A few dozen offensive signs amongst quite a large tea party movement, speaks to the relative respect level that exists.

Perhaps the big media (including the internet) has hyped these accusations up a bit? ....

You will always get some bad eggs in large crowds like these...

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Calgaryborn

If you want to see hate just look at Michelle Malkins 2000-2010 primer:
http://michellemalkin.com/

The left is being very hyprocritical considering their record. Palin and the tea party are not the ones creating an atmostphere of hate.

No they're not.

But they are clearly helping fuel it.

[Azure]

The smear campaign against Palin happened on CP too.

I remember it quite clearly.

[Azure]

Also, none of us should be surprised that this is happening.

Every single Presidential candidate the past decade and a half has been smeared in one way or the other. It hasn't been about policy or the best direction the country can take for a very long. I honestly thought Obama would be a step in the right direction, but he obviously hasn't. Not so sure if that is his fault, or he is just the wrong candidate at the wrong time.

[CaptainCrunch]

Amazingly good sign for Gifford tonight as her doctor stated that she's generating breath on her own.

I don't know how far she can come back, but so far its been really good news.

Lougher's parents release a statement and don't mention their son

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE7071IA20110112

[Flames Fan, Ph.D.]

Originally Posted by Calgaryborn

There has been no arrests at any tea party rally. Considering the number of people involved that is pretty impressive. The only arrests at the summer town hall meetings were when some Union workers in union shirts ruffed up a tea party participant. No one pull a gun on them let alone used it.

Again if you want to see what hate looks like just click on this link:

http://michellemalkin.com/

Wait, you're countering a narrative that "the right foments hate" by linking to michelle malkin's homepage where, 1/5th of the way down, there is a link with an accompanying image of a photoshopped Obama dressed as the grim reaper?

[HOZ]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Amazingly good sign for Gifford tonight as her doctor stated that she's generating breath on her own.

I don't know how far she can come back, but so far its been really good news.

Lougher's parents release a statement and don't mention their son

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE7071IA20110112

What would you say if you were in their place? Your child turns into a monster....Talk about a special place in Hell.

[CaptainCrunch]

I don't know how I would handle it as a parent.

I can honestly say that my parents wouldn't be all that supportive if I did something criminal or violently criminal.

But in this case, the killer is probably mentally ill, we'll find out how ill in the coming months or years.

Don't get me wrong, I think they handled the statement properly, but I can't imagine the guilt and the personal level of hell they're going through.

[HOZ]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

I don't know how I would handle it as a parent.

I can honestly say that my parents wouldn't be all that supportive if I did something criminal or violently criminal.

But in this case, the killer is probably mentally ill, we'll find out how ill in the coming months or years.

Don't get me wrong, I think they handled the statement properly, but I can't imagine the guilt and the personal level of hell they're going through.

I looked at that and thought....."What would I say for my son?" I can't imagine the level of Hell they are going through. Just can't fathom the situation.

[Stimpy]

Originally Posted by mikey_the_redneck

^^That is the worst they could come up with?

No. Not at all. I could repost the three pages of actual acts of violence that the fringe right have perpetrated and the media personalities that have stoked them, but hat would probably be argued as spam and I'd get in trouble. Posts 445-448 outline all those incidents that you can't make disappear by pointing to a blog from one of the right's more inflammatory writers. There are some real idiots on the loony left, just as there are on the right, but until you have one walk into a church and start gunning people down, or another start killing cops in hopes of starting a war with the government, or another crash his plane into a government building, you've got nothing. Every time you go to Malkin's site looking to reinforce what you think, just remember that these folks are on the same side of the argument you're trying to defend.

[mikey_the_redneck]

^^That photo is not a tea party rally, in fact that is not a political event at all, but one of those hardcore christian groups that protest funerals and what not....

I am not trying to defend the right wing rhetoric here, but free speech should be defended across the political spectrum as a whole, and the left is not superior or innocent.

[CaptainCrunch]

I really don't think you can include the Westboro Baptist Church as an example of Right Wing lunacy, they have hatred for all ends of the political spectrum.

[SeeBass]

What I don't get is why do some of the same people who think violence in movies and video games and a lack of family values can contribute to the problems in our society but poor choices in political rhetoric doesn't?

[Stimpy]

Originally Posted by mikey_the_redneck

^^That photo is not a tea party rally, in fact that is not a political event at all, but one of those hardcore christian groups that protest funerals and what not....

I am not trying to defend the right wing rhetoric here, but free speech should be defended across the political spectrum as a whole, and the left is not superior or innocent.

I agree, the left is not superior or innocent when it comes to heated rhetoric. It has to cool on both sides. But pointing to a Malkin web site for examples of rhetorical behavior is not only ironic, but also going to one of the extremes in defense of the extreme. That's just strange.

You have to remember that we are talking the extremes and how that extreme can find sympathetic representation. This is not an indictment of an entire half of the political sphere but an examination of how it can be corrupted by an issue. The fringe is pretty ugly on both sides, but you have to consider the ramifications of the activity of that fringe element.

Where the inflammatory rhetoric argument tends to breakdown is the actions as a result of the rhetoric. Where is the violence that percolates to the top when the left is inflamed? During the Bush years the big news was the protests by the likes of Code Pink, who were ridiculous, and Cindy Sheehan. Do you recall much violence, even from the most fringe of the left in the past 20 or 30 years? You have to go back to the 60's to find the Weather Underground? The left has become pretty lame when it tries to work itself up into a lather.

Conversely, the fringe right, when they go off the deep end, tends to end in extreme violence. This is because the right embraces certain issues and takes ownership of them. The gun culture is firmly ingrained on the right. The extreme right is steep heavily in ideology, religious or otherwise. Like it or not the extreme right is where you find the White Supremest movements, the militia movements and the fundamental religious groups. You may want to marginalize Westboro, but they are reflective, to extreme, of that right wing extremest fringe. It is this fringe that has become activated and is resulting in these violent incidents.

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

I really don't think you can include the Westboro Baptist Church as an example of Right Wing lunacy, they have hatred for all ends of the political spectrum.

Disagree Captain. Like it or not, Westboro sits on the right side of the fulcrum. You know, Westboro has extreme views, but at least they only hold up distasteful signs and should obscenities. I would much rather have that than some of the supposedly less extreme groups on the right that have killed police or abortion doctors or have damaged or destroyed government buildings. Westboro is nutty, but they aren't violent.