Congresswoman and 17 others shot in Arizona

[AvsJerk]

Originally Posted by T@T

From this


To this

He looks like he's been either overmedicated or wrongly medicated or both, to me. The two pictures show alot of weight gain and the bags under the eyes (and the eyes themselves) look like the results of meds to me.

I'm part of a clinical team at a youth corrections facility and have seen that look many times. My facility however, is great about gradually working kids off of meds and establishing a "normal" baseline...and then deciding what meds if any (in conjunction with counseling) should be administered.

I'm guessing we'll be hearing about what meds he was on in the next few days. My guess is seroquel.

[Reggie Dunlop]

Originally Posted by SeeBass

I guess a good example of how polarizing america is that both sides are racing to see which side is to blame.

It can happen in Canada.

Around 2003/2004 Craig Chandler organized a "Shoot A Liberal" fundraiser for the Conservative Party at a local gun range. There even were Members of Parliament like Rob Anders and Myron Thompson defending it.

They later claimed the targets would be Liberal Party logos, so the story went. After a public outcry, I think they ended up shooting copies of whatever piece of legislation it was that had them in a lather.

Stupidity can have tragic consequences.

[Reggie Dunlop]

... bags under the eyes (and the eyes themselves) look like the results of meds to me.

That's a shiner on one eye, plus a scrape on the forehead. Someone worked the punk over.

[the2bears]

Originally Posted by Cowperson

For interest, the very left wing Daily Kos puts a bullseye on Gabrielle Giffords in 2008.




EDIT, some possible further insight into the conspiracy theories of the accused:

http://www.jsonline.com/news/milwaukee/113176989.html

Maybe. That's about as obscure as it gets.

Cowperson

That image is actually one that has been photoshopped. Guess what was added? The image of Giffords and the target.

[Stimpy]

Originally Posted by transplant99

The most in-depth backgroud on the shooter so far. Pretty clear this wasnt politically motivated but moreso he just was pissed off at Giffords.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...LEFTTopStories

Did you miss these parts of the article you linked?

"In a series of videos posted on YouTube since the end of November, Mr. Loughner raged against the government and the Constitution and discussed "terrorism.""

"Mr. Montanaro recalled his friend developed "a hate for government and just how everything was systematic...He thought government controlled people too much.""


"I really can't understand why Jared was so interested in Giffords," Mr. Montanaro said. "I imagine it was simply because she was the most accessible."


Loughner has some serious mental issues (schizophrenia?) but all of his delusions are based in distrust of the government and political mechanisms in the country, making this political. The inflammatory rhetoric so prevalent in the state of Arizona fueled his delusions. This was a premeditated attack against a political figure at a political event, making this political. I think the party affiliation was unimportant, and upon reflection it could have happened to a Republican just as easy as it could have happened to a Democrat, but Loughner had some history with Giffords and saw her as a symbol of all things he hated. His reasoning may have been disconnected with our reality, but to his politically motivated delusions what he was doing made sense.

Originally Posted by Cowperson

In fairness, there have been a few Democrats as well going on the record saying it adds to the bitter climate to draw the right wing into the Arizona shootings without evidence, preaching the need to wait to see if that assertion turns into fact.

No evidence?

July 27, 2008—Jim Adkisson shoots and kills two people at a progressive church in Knoxville, Tennessee, wounding two. Adkisson calls it “a symbolic killing” because he really “wanted to kill…every Democrat in the Senate & House, the 100 people in Bernard Goldberg's book,” but was unable to gain access to them.

February 5, 2009—FOX commentator Glenn Beck hosts an hour-long special on Fox called “We Surround Them,” a “grassroots effort to wake up our Nation's leaders and let them know what many, if not most, Americans truly believe in and stand for.”

February 20, 2009—FOX commentator Glenn Beck hosts a program that games a 2014 civil war scenario called “The Bubba Effect.” It involves citizen militias in the South and West taking up arms against the U.S. government.

March 3, 2009— FOX commentator Glenn Beck interviews NRA celebrity spokesman Chuck Norris. During the interview, Beck states that, “Somebody asked me this morning, they said, ‘you really believe that there's going to be trouble in the future?’ And I said, ‘if this country starts to spiral out of control and, you know, and Mexico melts down or whatever, if it really starts to spiral out of control, before America allows a country to become a totalitarian country … Americans will, they just, they won't stand for it. There will be parts of the country that will rise up.’ And they said, ‘where's that going to come from?’ And I said, ‘Texas, it's going to come from Texas.’”

March 9, 2009— NRA celebrity spokesman Chuck Norris writes in an editorial published at WorldNetDaily: “How much more will Americans take? When will enough be enough? And, when that time comes, will our leaders finally listen or will history need to record a second American Revolution?”

March 21-22, 2009—Congresswoman Michele Bachmann (R-MN) states that she wants residents of her state to be “armed and dangerous on this issue of the energy tax because we need to fight back. Thomas Jefferson told us ‘having a revolution every now and then is a good thing,’ and the people—we the people—are going to have to fight back hard if we’re not going to lose our country.”

April 4, 2009—Neo-Nazi Richard Poplawski shoots and kills three police officers responding to a 911 call to his home in Pittsburgh. His friend Edward Perkovic tells reporters that Poplawski feared “the Obama gun ban that’s on its way” and “didn’t like our rights being infringed upon.” Perkovic also commented that Poplawski carried out the shooting because “if anyone tried to take his firearms, he was gonna’ stand by what his forefathers told him to do.”

April 7, 2009—The Department of Homeland Security’s Office of Intelligence and Analysis releases an assessment of right wing extremism in the United States. The Department notes that “the economic downturn and the election of the first African American president present unique drivers for rightwing radicalization and recruitment.”

Recalling the 1995 Oklahoma City bombing by Timothy McVeigh, the Department speculates, “The possible passage of new restrictions on firearms and the return of military veterans facing significant challenges reintegrating into their communities could lead to the potential emergence of terrorist groups or lone wolf extremists capable of carrying out violent attacks.”

May 31, 2009—Scott P. Roeder shoots and kills Dr. George Tiller, an abortion provider, in the foyer of Reformation Lutheran Church in Wichita, Kansas. The FBI lists Roeder as a member of the Montana Freemen, a radical anti-government group.

Between January 6 and May 15, Politifact found 8 instances where conservative talk show host, Bill O'Reilly called George Tiller a "baby killer". Other reports show O'Reilly had labeled Dr. Tiller "Tiller, the baby killer" as far back as 2006.

June 3, 2009—Hal Turner, a New Jersey resident and white supremacist blogger/radio host, is arrested on charges of inciting injury after calling for the deaths of two Connecticut state legislators on his blog because they sponsored a bill that would have transferred financial power in Roman Catholic parishes from priests and bishops to lay members. “While filing a lawsuit is quaint and the 'decent' way to handle things,” he wrote, “we at TRN (Turner Radio Network) believe that being decent to a group of tyrannical scumbags is the wrong approach. It's too soft. Thankfully, the Founding Fathers gave us the tools necessary to resolve tyranny: The Second Amendment. .”

June 10, 2009—James W. von Brunn, a convicted felon and a “hardcore Neo-Nazi,” walks into the U.S. Holocaust Memorial Museum in Washington, D.C. and shoots and kills a security guard. Von Brunn believed that Western civilization was going to be replaced with a “ONE WORLD ILLUMINATI GOVERNMENT” that would “confiscate private weapons” in order to accomplish its goals.

July 15, 2009—Katherine Crabill, a Republican candidate for the Virginia House of Delegates in the state’s 99th District makes headlines by calling on Americans to resist the course President Obama has set for the country. Appearing at a “Tea Party” rally, Crabill quotes a 1775 speech by Patrick Henry and then states, “We have a chance to fight this battle at the ballot box before we have to resort to the bullet box. But that's the beauty of our Second Amendment right. I am glad for all of us who enjoy the use of firearms for hunting. But make no mistake. That was not the intent of the Founding Fathers. Our Second Amendment right was to guard against tyranny.”

July 31, 2009—On WWJB-AM in Hernando County, Florida, talk radio host Bob Haa takes a call from a listener who mentions ammunition, target practice, and Barack Obama. Haa tells him not to waste his ammunition on targets, to save it for the administration. Haa is later visited by an agent for the Secret Service.

[Stimpy]

More evidence.

August 11, 2009— William Kostric is filmed openly carrying a handgun outside of President Obama's health care reform town hall meeting in New Hampshire. Kostric holds a sign that reads, "IT IS TIME TO WATER THE TREE OF LIBERTY!" a reference to the following Thomas Jefferson quote: "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time, with the blood of patriots and tyrants."

August 17, 2009—Chris Broughton openly carries a handgun and AR-15 semiautomatic assault rifle to a health care rally in Phoenix, Arizona. Simultaneously, President Obama addresses a VFW Convention across the street. In a video recorded that day, Broughton states, “What do you think we did in the revolution, in the American Revolution? The British weren't stealing money from us for health care. They weren't taxing us the way they are now back then. And what did we do? We forcefully kicked them out of our country."
August 26, 2009— At a secessionist rally on the state capitol steps in Austin, Texas, gubernatorial candidate Debra Medina states that, "We are aware that stepping off into secession may in fact be a bloody war. We are aware. We understand that the tree of freedom is occasionally watered with the blood of tyrants and patriots.”

September 28, 2009—Rep. Paul Broun (R-GA), the Chairman of the Second Amendment Task Force in the U.S. House of Representatives, calls House Speaker Nancy Pelosi a “domestic enemy of the Constitution” at a health care reform town hall meeting.

September 29, 2009—An editorial at the Newsmax website calls for a military coup to oust President Obama.

October 18-19, 2009—Reports emerge that the Secret Service has received an unprecedented number of death threats against President Obama. Ronald Kessler's account of presidential security, In the President's Secret Service, states that there has been a 400% increase in such threats in comparison with Obama’s predecessor. Another source of these reports is an August 5, 2009 study by the Congressional Research Service which finds: “The [Secret] Service’s protection mission has increased and become more ‘urgent’ due to the increase in terrorist threats and the expanded arsenal of weapons that terrorists could use in an assassination attempt or attacks on facilities.”


November 2009— A billboard is erected on I-70 in Lafayette County, Missouri, that promotes "a citizens guide to REVOLUTION." It urges Missourians to "LIVE FREE OR DIE" and "PREPARE FOR WAR" with a corrupt government. The billboard is highlighted at the Lafayette County Republicans website.
February 13, 2010— An unidentified speaker at an event organized by the Lewis and Clark Tea Party Patriots in Asotin County, Washington, tells the audience, "How many of you have watched the movie "Lonesome Dove"? What happened to Jake when he ran with the wrong crowd? He got hung. And that's what I want to do with [Democratic U.S. Senator] Patty Murray."


February 18, 2010— Joseph Stack of Austin, Texas, flies a single-engine plane into an office building containing nearly 200 IRS employees, killing one and wounding 13. In a suicide note, Stack lays out his grievances with the federal tax agency, stating, "... Violence not only is the answer, it is the only answer."

March 2010—The Southern Poverty Law Center (SPLC) announces that 2009 saw a dramatic increase in the number of new anti-government "Patriot" groups in the United States. Specifically, the number of Patriot groups jumped from 149 (including 42 militias) to 512 (127 of them militias) in 2009—a 244% jump.

March 4, 2010—John Patrick Bedell, a California resident, travels to Arlington, Virginia, and opens fire on police officers at the entrance to the Pentagon. Bedell is armed with two semiautomatic firearms and "many [ammunition] magazines." Bedell injures two officers before he is killed by return fire. Reports reveals Bedell to be a Truther who believed that the U.S. government had been taken over by a criminal organization in a 1963 coup. In an Internet posting, he writes, "This organization, like so many murderous governments throughout history, would see the sacrifice of thousands of its citizens, in an event such as the September 11 attacks, as a small cost in order to perpetuate its barbaric control."

March 19-22, 2010—During consideration of health care reform legislation by the U.S. House of Representatives, vandals attack Democratic offices in Pleasant Ridge, Ohio; Wichita, Kansas; Tuscon, Arizona; Niagra Falls, New York; and Rochester, New York. Mike Vanderboegh, the former leader of the Alabama Constitutional Militia, takes credit for the violence after posting a blog on March 19 that states, "If we break the windows of hundreds, thousands, of Democratic party headquarters across this country, we might just make up enough of them to make defending ourselves at the muzzle of a rifle unnecessary."

Several Democratic members receive death threats, including Rep. Louise Slaughter (D-NY), who is told snipers will "kill the children of the members who voted YES"; Rep. Bart Stupak (D-MI), who receives a message saying, "You're dead; we know where you live; we'll get you"; and Rep. Betsy Markey (D-CO), whose staffer is told by a caller, "Better hope I don't run into you in a dark alley with a knife, a club or a gun."

House Minority Leader John Boehner, speaking about Rep. Steve Driehaus (D-OH), says he "may be a dead man."

March 21, 2010—As the U.S. House of Representatives enters a final round of debate over a controversial health care reform bill, Conservative blogger Solomon "Solly" Forrell calls for the assassination of President Barack Obama on his Twitter account. In two separate postings, Forrel writes, "ASSASSINATION! America, we survived the #Assassinations of #Lincoln & #Kennedy. We'll surely get over a bullet 2 #BarackObama's head! ... The next #American with a #Clear #Shot should drop #Obama like a bad habit."

March 23, 2010— Sarah Palin announces her "Take Back The 20" campaign (which called on Americans to vote out of office Democrats from conservative districts who had voted for health care reform) on her Facebook page. The page includes an image of a map with targeted districts marked with crosshairs.

That same day, Palin tweets to her supporters a note about the Facebook message, writing, "Commonsense Conservatives & lovers of America: 'Don't Retreat, Instead - RELOAD!' Pls see my Facebook page."

One of the targeted districts was Garielle Giffords'.

March 24, 2010—After voting for health care reform legislation, Rep. Bart Stupak (D-MI) and Rep. James Clyburn (D-SC) receive faxes with drawings of nooses.

March 25, 2010—Rep. Anthony Weiner (D-NY), who voted for health care reform legislation, receives a package containing white powder and an angry letter telling him to "drop dead ."

[Stimpy]

More evidence.

March 26, 2010—Rep. Vic Snyder (D-AR), who voted for health care reform legislation, receives a letter stating, "It is apparent that it will take a few assassinations to stop Obamacare. Militia central has selected you for assassination. If we cannot stalk and find you in Washington, D.C., we will get you in Little Rock."

That same day, NRA Board Member Ted Nugent makes the following comment on FOX News' "Your World" program: “I’m the expert on the health care bill because I kill pigs and a just shot a monster big pig here in Texas and seeing as how this is a pig bill created by pig bureaucrats to help out American pigs … We gotta’ kill the pig.”

April 1, 2010— CNN commentator Erick Erickson, questioning the legality of the U.S. Census Bureau’s American Community Survey (ACS), makes the following comment on WMAC-AM radio: “We have become, or are becoming, enslaved by the government ... I dare ‘em to try to come throw me in jail. I dare ‘em to. [I’ll] pull out my wife’s shotgun and see how that little ACS twerp likes being scared at the door. They’re not going on my property.”

April 7, 2010—Gregory Lee Giusti, 48, of San Francisco, California, is arrested for making threatening phone calls to House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-CA). Giusti allegedly called Pelosi dozens of times, recited her home address, and told her that if she wanted to see it again, she should drop her support for health care reform legislation. Giusti had a "history of mental health problems" and his mother indicated he was influenced by "Fox News and all of those that are really radical."
April 13, 2010— Reports surface that state Sen. Randy Brogdon (R-OK) and Rep. Charles Key (R-OK) have met with Oklahoma Tea Party groups to discuss the formation of a new "volunteer militia" to defend against what they see as improprer federal infringements on state sovereignty.

One Tea Party leader involved in these meetings, J.W. Berry of the Tulsa-based OKforTea group, has called for the Militia to "launch a thousand guerrilla attacks on the plans that these people have to ruin us and our country."

April 19, 2010—Pro-gun activists conduct two rallies in the Washington, D.C. area to demonstrate their opposition to an "oppressive, totalitarian government." The choice of date is significant, as April 19 marks the anniversary of the first shots being fired in the American Revolution at the Battle of Lexington/Concord, the fiery conclusion to the 1993 siege at Waco, and the 1995 bombing of the Murrah Building in Oklahoma City by Timothy McVeigh.

May 15, 2010—Referring to a controversial new anti-immigration law in Arizona, FOX News personality Glenn Beck tells the 2010 NRA Convention, "Let's talk a minute about a 'well-regulated militia' and why you might need one because the government isn't doing their job. Let's meet people in Texas, Arizona and California."


May 27, 2010— The Washington Times publishes an editorial claiming that a United Nations treaty seeking to curb the international, illicit trade in smalls arms "would necessarily lead to confication of personal firearms" in the United States. The editorial goes on to say, "Not all insurgencies are bad. As U.S. history shows, one way to get rid of a despotic regime is to rise up against it... Governments are a bigger threat to most people than their neighbors."

May 30, 2010—Sharron Angle, a candidate for the Republican nomination for U.S. Senator in Nevada, tells the Reno Gazette-Journal that a recent increase in gun sales nationwide "tells me that the nation is arming. What are they arming for if it isn't that they are so distrustful of government? They're afraid they'll have to fight for their liberty in more Second Amendment kinds of ways." These comments echo ones made by Angle in January, when she told conservative radio show talk host Lars Larson, "You know, our Founding Fathers, they put that Second Amendment in there for a good reason....if this Congress keeps going the way it is, people are really looking toward those Second Amendment remedies and saying my goodness what can we do to turn this country around?

June 9, 2010—Addressing the Obama administration and the Democratic-controlled Congress, FOX commentator Glenn Beck says, "Shoot me in the head if you try to change our government—I will stand against you. And so will millions of others." Beck also compares American Progressives to Osama bin Laden and claims "they want to overthrow our entire system of government."

June 12, 2010 - Rep. Gabrielle Giffords' Republican opponent, Jesse Kelly, hosted a gun eventShoot a fully automatic M15 with Jesse Kelly."

Kelly, who also touted his experience as a Marine combat veteran, often used images of himself handling guns in campaign literature and on his website. Those images are no longer available on his campaign website because Kelly scrubbed most of the site right after the Giffords shooting. , inviting supporters to "Get on Target for Victory in November Help remove Gabrielle Giffords from office.

[Stimpy]

More evidence.

July 11, 2010—Supporters of Tea Party candidate Joe Miller openly carry assault rifles and handguns during a community parade in Eagle River and Chugiak, Alaska, while young children march alongside them. Miller, who is running against Senator Lisa Murkowski in the Republican primary, was endorsed by former Alaska governor Sarah Palin, who described him as a “true Commonsense Constitutional Conservative.”

July 18, 2010—California Highway Patrol officers arrest Byron Williams, 45, after a shootout on I-580 in which more than 60 rounds are fired. Officers had pulled Williams over in his pick-up for speeding and weaving in and out of traffic when he opened fire on them with a handgun and a long gun. Williams, a convicted felon, is shot several times, but survives because he is wearing body armor. Williams, a convicted felon, reveals that he was on his way to San Francisco to "start a revolution" by killing employees of the ACLU and Tides Foundation. Williams' mother says her son was angry at "Left-wing politicians" and upset by "the way Congress was railroading through all these Left-wing agenda items."

September 16, 2010—Patricia Stoneking, the President of the Kansas State Rifle Association, tells Fox News, "People need to arm themselves, We have the right to put limits on our government, and that's what [the Second Amendment] does." Explaining why America's Founding Fathers drafted the amendment, she says, "They knew government could become tyrannical. We have the right to defend ourselves from a rogue government."

October 15, 2010—Conservative radio show host Glenn Beck lays out a hypothetical scenario on the air where the government is considering taking his children because he refused to have them receive a mandatory flu vaccine. Beck tells his audience that his response to the government would be "Meet Mr. Smith and Mr. Wesson."

November 4, 2010—On his radio show, conservative host Glenn Beck fantasizes about President Obama being decapitated during a trip to India, saying, "If anybody thinks he was a Muslim over here, well God forbid, they think he was a Muslim over there because he left his religion for Christianity, death sentence, behead him.” Beck then tells his listeners that "God forbid" this should happen, as there would be a "New World Order" overnight in the United States.

Fox News host Bill O'Reilly fantasizes about killing a Washington Post reporter while on the air, saying, "Does sharia law say we can behead Dana Milbank?" O'Reilly also tells co-host Megyn Kelly, "I think you and I should go and beat him up."

Sarah Palin brags on twitter, "Remember months ago "bullseye" icon used 2 target the 20 Obamacare-lovin' incumbent seats? We won 18 out of 20) 90% success rate:T'aint bad".

One district unsuccessfully targeted was Gabrielle Giffords', the representative gunned down in Tuscon on January 8th, 2011

November 9, 2010—U.S. Representative-Elect Allen West of Florida's 22nd Congressional District hires conservative radio talk show host Joyce Kaufman as his Chief of Staff. On July 3, Kaufman told a crowd of Tea Party supporters, “I am convinced that the most important thing the Founding Fathers did to ensure me my First Amendments rights was they gave me a Second Amendment. And if ballots don’t work, bullets will."

The next day, public schools in Broward County, Florida, go into lockdown after an email threat is received by WFTL 850 AM. The email is sent to conservative radio host Joyce Kaufman in response to remarks she made the day before. The email expresses support for her view of the Second Amendment and says that to further "their cause...something big will happen at a government building in Broward County, maybe a post office maybe even a school." A phone call is then received at the station, allegedly from the emailer's wife, warning that he is preparing to go to a Pembroke Pines school and open fire.

November 29, 2010—U.S. Rep. Joe Barton (R-TX), the ranking Republican on the House Energy and Commerce Committee, circulates a PowerPoint presentation to his colleagues in which he compares the Obama administration to the Nazi regime in Germany and likens himself to Gen. George Patton, bragging, "Put anything in my scope and I will shoot it."

Outcome?

January 8, 2011—U.S. Rep. Gabrielle Giffords (D-AZ) is shot in the head by Jared Lee Loughner, with reported ties to an anti-Semetic, anti-immigration hate group, American Renaissance. 13 others were also injured, and 6 were killed, including a 9 year-old girl born on September 11, 2001.

The rhetoric has been crazy and just feeds the emotionally disturbed.

[Displaced Flames fan]

That's some creative language....I particularly like the use of the word 'fantasizes' in serveral entries. Accurate verbage, no doubt.

Garbage.

[Phaneuf3]

Originally Posted by Stimpy

words words words
<snip>

Isolated incident.


edit: but seriously.... there's a whole lot of dead and wounded people here. To hell with the politics and blame game. #### this. #### everything about this.

[Flames Fan, Ph.D.]

Originally Posted by Displaced Flames fan

Yeah, I haven't watched so I don't know. In any case, what you've said isn't what Flames Fan PhD was getting at, I am sure.

Growing up in Montana and Colorado, I defend ethical hunting every chance I get.

What I was getting at is that her whole persona is centering around some type of gun imagery, either visual or verbal. The show was just another way for her to manifest that message.

[QuadCityImages]

It has been interesting to go back and read this thread for the first time a few days later.

A few things I think we should be able to agree on.

1. Regardless of your views of guns overall, this kid should not have been able to walk into a store and buy one as easily as those of us in the realm of the sane. If he hadn't been able to buy one at a store, I don't think its a given that he could have found one illegally. I doubt he could just walk into a bad area of Tucson and start asking people if they had any illegal guns for sale.

2. The crime was "politically motivated", but the politics aren't possible to define. Which party does someone belong to if one of their big worries is "mind control using grammar?" Its like trying to guess what hockey team is someone's favorite when they say their favorite goalie is a stick of butter.

3. Is the political climate in the US, and especially Arizona, very fired up right now? Yes.

4. Did that crazy climate contribute to this crazy guy's actions? Maybe, maybe not. There were plenty of nuts on Coast to Coast worrying about mind control 10 years ago that this kid would have fit right in with. McVeigh wasn't a product of the current situation, so this kid may have just gone crazy the old fashioned way. Or he could have been influenced by people saying that the government is out to get us. No real way to know, at least yet.

5. That said, is the toxic political climate good for America? This is more opinion than the rest, but I'm going to say no.

[Cowperson]

Like I said Skimpy, some Democrats - not all - are trying to attach the motivation for this individual's actions to elements of the right wing without evidence. And the overemotional sheriff has pretty much said no such evidence of motivation exists to his knowledge.

Whatever tangent you think you're on with your fairly useless effort above is Irrelevant to that statement.

By the way, referencing your earlier irrelevant essay, if I actually have to explain to you the inherent potential conflict of interest issues that can come up when a lead investigator in an attempted murder case is wa close personal friend and political confidant of the victim, then there's probably no hope for you. We'll see if that comes up later with the defense.

[transplant99]

Did you miss these parts of the article you linked?

Uhhh....no I didnt.

This guy didnt shoot Ms. Giffords because of her politics, he shot her because she was in government and had pissed him off 3 years earlier.

That's not politically motivated.

[Displaced Flames fan]

Originally Posted by Flames Fan, Ph.D.

What I was getting at is that her whole persona is centering around some type of gun imagery, either visual or verbal. The show was just another way for her to manifest that message.

But hunting is very much a part of life in Alaska. The show is called Sarah Palin's Alaska. It's not a surprise that there would be some hunting going on.

If I had a show called Displaced Flames Fan's Montana I would likely chronicle a hunting trip.

No chance whatsoever that this is the case here? It MUST be a calculated move to whip people up into a gun crazed frenzy?

[pepper24]

The part that really bugs me about these events is that the suspect gets the spotlight while the victims are usually forgotten. This case is a bit different due to 2 political figures and a young girl born on 9-11 but in most cases they literally glorify the killer then wonder why it keeps happening. I think a lot of these nuts would do evil things anyways but a lot are lost people who are crying for help. No better way of getting that missing attention than in front of a large audience. The quieta awkward kid growing up finally gets some attention though in a negative sense.

I could really care less about the background of the killer and how he looks like. I think the media goes way overboard with their coverage on the suspect.

[Displaced Flames fan]

Originally Posted by pepper24

The part that really bugs me about these events is that the suspect gets the spotlight while the victims are usually forgotten. This case is a bit different due to 2 political figures and a young girl born on 9-11 but in most cases they literally glorify the killer then wonder why it keeps happening. I think a lot of these nuts would do evil things anyways but a lot are lost people who are crying for help. No better way of getting that missing attention than in front of a large audience. The quieta awkward kid growing up finally gets some attention though in a negative sense.

I could really care less about the background of the killer and how he looks like. I think the media goes way overboard with their coverage on the suspect.

Absolutely.

I remember talking about that on this very forum after Columbine. We knew Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold were the most famous people in the world for a few weeks.

Disgusting. It's disgusting that I will never be able to forget their names.

[the2bears]

Originally Posted by Displaced Flames fan

But hunting is very much a part of life in Alaska. The show is called Sarah Palin's Alaska. It's not a surprise that there would be some hunting going on.

If I had a show called Displaced Flames Fan's Montana I would likely chronicle a hunting trip.

No chance whatsoever that this is the case here? It MUST be a calculated move to whip people up into a gun crazed frenzy?

But taken in the context of everything else, is it not part of the mama-bear, gun-toting cougar, "reload" impression that is being marketed? I guess it beats a show on "Alaska's Quitters".

[longsuffering]

Originally Posted by QuadCityImages

5. That said, is the toxic political climate good for America? This is more opinion than the rest, but I'm going to say no.

I agree

Whether the shooting was a direct result of the toxic political climate or not, it is fair (and IMO important) to reflect on the use of violent and inflammatory language and images in the context of a political debate.

Just because there is no direct causation, it doesn't make the use of gun site images or phrases like "RELOAD" appropriate.

Despite how many people frame the debate, Left vs Right is not life or death. The dirty cons or the evil liberals can be voted out of office.

[Stimpy]

Originally Posted by Cowperson

Like I said Skimpy, some Democrats - not all - are trying to attach the motivation for this individual's actions to elements of the right wing without evidence. And the overemotional sheriff has pretty much said no such evidence of motivation exists to his knowledge.

Whatever tangent you think you're on with your fairly useless effort above is Irrelevant to that statement.

Whatever you say. Nice piece of name calling too.

It wouldn't matter what information was presented to you, you'd choose to ignore it. You ignored the complete pattern established above, which displayed the inflammatory rhetoric and outcomes of such language. Would it matter to you that the executives of other agencies are saying the same thing as the Pima County Sheriff? No. Doesn't fit your narrative.

By the way, referencing your earlier irrelevant essay, if I actually have to explain to you the inherent potential conflict of interest issues that can come up when a lead investigator in an attempted murder case is wa close personal friend and political confidant of the victim, then there's probably no hope for you. We'll see if that comes up later with the defense.

You do know that the executive officer of an agency is not going to be the lead investigator? You do also know that the media gets about 10% of the whole story? If any of that stuff you wrote comes up in the defense, this kid is headed to the gas chamber. Talk about irrelevant.

Originally Posted by transplant99

Uhhh....no I didnt.

This guy didnt shoot Ms. Giffords because of her politics, he shot her because she was in government and had pissed him off 3 years earlier.

That's not politically motivated.

If that isn't politically motivated then is? Did you also miss where he produced a series of anti-government and anti-immigration You Tube videos and made similar posts on his social networking pages? No, Giffords was shot because she pissed off the kid 3 years earlier. What was it that pissed him off so bad again? Her political stance on issues the kid didn't like. So he gunned down a politician at a political rally after leaving behind notes about politics and assassination. How do you construe that not being politically motivated?