Congresswoman and 17 others shot in Arizona

[theonlywhiteout]

Originally Posted by T@T

That gun would not have protected you from him or people like him. Even if you carried it on your hip it's likely he would have targeted you with the first bullet.

You are not protecting yourself or your family by owning a gun, it's common sense, odds are about 3-1 that your gun will kill you or a family member before it protects you. odds are about 21-1 that your gun will hurt someone else other than the criminal you bought it for protection from.
If gun possession made you safer, the United States would be the safest place on earth. instead you have the worst gun violence per capita than any other developed country.

You and your country needs to wake the f'ck up. you can start by destroying your gun.

Gun owners don't care about facts and statistics. If a sobering fact like your gun will hurt you or your family before hurting an intruder wont put sense into someone, nothing will

[AvsJerk]

Anybody else catch the interview on cnn with the concealed carry guy that was in the drugstore when the shooting began? He rushed out to see if he could help. I find this disturbing for a couple of reasons:

1. How the hell would this yahoo have enough background info on whats going down to be of any use...I'm sure people were in a panic...running/screaming.

2. If by some chance this guy did figure out what was happening and started shooting, is he experienced enough to take out the threat without injuring/killing bystanders? Can you imagine the chaos if now there were two morons shooting through a crowd of people?

3. The good samaritan would be at a great danger when the cops arrived. How would the cops discern who the "bad guy" is? Maybe they both get shot down.

I'm a gun owner myself (3 shotguns and a rifle), if the gun isn't being used while I'm hunting, it is locked in my gun safe...in a basement closet. Home defense is my dogs and a broken axe handle.

Carrying a gun in public? It's not for me, too dangerous. But then I generally try to avoid crowds, bad neighborhoods, and situations that have a good chance of going bad. Carrying a gun is not a good replacement for situational awareness and common sense.

[Jordan!]

T@T, I understand your point and would prefer to have this country abolish gun ownership entirely however in the real world bad guys will get guns if they want them.. period. For me, It's just there to have peace of mind... if my home alarm system goes off at night I know I'll have an option to protect myself, or if i'm at a drive thru banking maching I have a .380 in my middle console to protect myself. I do work in South Phoenix sometimes and I prefer to take my own car rather than the company car because I have my gun with me.

It's a sad fact but it does bring me peace of mind.. i'm not a right wing gun rights protecting, concealed carrying red neck here. I'm a guy who grew up in Canada, a Geek, who loves hockey... who has the option to purchase peace of mind.

[Calgaryborn]

Originally Posted by theonlywhiteout

Gun owners don't care about facts and statistics. If a sobering fact like your gun will hurt you or your family before hurting an intruder wont put sense into someone, nothing will

Maybe gun owners don't trust stats compiled by those opposed to gun ownership.

Also, perhaps gun owners would rather trust their own abilities rather that trust law enforcements speedy response. Got any stats on how many people are killed in a given year who were unarmed? What are the odds of the police showing up before the crime is committed?

[GreenTeaFrapp]

Originally Posted by Bouw N Arrow

if i'm at a drive thru banking maching I have a .380 in my middle console to protect myself.

Do you really think you'd be able to get it if someone pulls a gun on you while you're banking? Go for it and I'm sure dude'll shoot you before you get your finger on the trigger.

[MrMastodonFarm]

Originally Posted by Bouw N Arrow

T@T, I understand your point and would prefer to have this country abolish gun ownership entirely however in the real world bad guys will get guns if they want them.. period. For me, It's just there to have peace of mind... if my home alarm system goes off at night I know I'll have an option to protect myself, or if i'm at a drive thru banking maching I have a .380 in my middle console to protect myself. I do work in South Phoenix sometimes and I prefer to take my own car rather than the company car because I have my gun with me.

It's a sad fact but it does bring me peace of mind.. i'm not a right wing gun rights protecting, concealed carrying red neck here. I'm a guy who grew up in Canada, a Geek, who loves hockey... who has the option to purchase peace of mind.

Two points.

First point - Until you don't have to feel safe driving around with a loaded firearm any post about how great it is in Pheonix from you will be ignored or you will be slapped

Second point - I can't imagine ever having to purchase a weapong to feel peace of mind, that's the day I seriously evaluate where I am in life.

[tjinaz]

Two points.

First point - Until you don't have to feel safe driving around with a loaded firearm any post about how great it is in Pheonix from you will be ignored or you will be slapped

Second point - I can't imagine ever having to purchase a weapong to feel peace of mind, that's the day I seriously evaluate where I am in life.

Have you ever driven through a sketchy area in a big city and felt scared or anxious for your safety and NOT had the option of having a gun? All big cities have their "bad neighborhoods" don't be getting all high and mighty that the metro areas of Canada don't have them or Gang problems. The difference is he may have to go into them as part of his job functions and has the option of having a gun.

Here is the right answer

Carrying a gun in public? It's not for me, too dangerous. But then I generally try to avoid crowds, bad neighborhoods, and situations that have a good chance of going bad. Carrying a gun is not a good replacement for situational awareness and common sense.

Just because you carry a gun doesn't mean you whip it out at the first sign of trouble. It is there as a last possible resort.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by Calgaryborn

I forget which State it originated in but, there is a case that is going to end up at the Supreme court arguing that immigrants with green cards should be covered by the second amendment and be allowed to own guns. Legal experts seem to think it will be upheld because there has to be a compeling reason not to afford aliens a constitutional right. The ACLU is bringing the case foreward.

This will be good for Canadian gun owners. Right now because of federal laws we can't carry or purchase firearms in the States. If this case is won a Canadian could purchase a rifle or pistol across the line and then register it immediately in Canada by phone. One week later he/she would get the registration card in the mail. He/she could then go down and bring the weapon across after paying the duty. This will give Canadian firearm stores some needed competition and should bring prices down by a third.

How exactly are you making the jump from the case you describe in paragraph one to the result for Canadians in paragraph two? A ruling allowing alien residents of the United States who are in possession of a green card to purchase guns doesn't mean that Canadian citizens who are not resident in the US and in possession of a green card to do the same. They are not the same thing, not even close.

[SeeBass]

^actually no I have never thought, boy I need a gun I feel scared.

Don't get me wrong I have felt unsafe but wanting another gun on the street so I feel better really makes me feel like I am adding to the problem and I would not do that just so I can feel better. In my opinion another gun just makes everybody less safe and I see it as a selfish act.

People talk about sacrifice and trying to make their country a great place so for me it is a matter of it put up or shut up and back up your thoughts with actions.

[BigBrodieFan]

Originally Posted by MrMastodonFarm

Two points.

First point - Until you don't have to feel safe driving around with a loaded firearm any post about how great it is in Pheonix from you will be ignored or you will be slapped

Second point - I can't imagine ever having to purchase a weapong to feel peace of mind, that's the day I seriously evaluate where I am in life.

I live in the US, I rarely have to drive through 'dangerous neighbourhoods' but I would feel more afraid to have a loaded weapon in my possession than to drive through those neighbourhoods, so I see your point.

But, just wondering, you said you wouldn't purchase a weapon to feel peace of mind. Do you have a hunting rifle?

When I lived in Canada with my parents, my father owned (and still owns) about 40 hunting rifles (collects them and hunts). He always kept them locked, followed regulations, etc. My husband owns seven guns and we do not keep them loaded. They are all rifles, no hand guns, and they are locked up too. He hunts occasionally. If someone were to break into our house, our wire haired pointer would be the last thing they'd want to deal with (unless of course they shot him) (not likely to happen). I would never think to unlock one of the rifles and load it, and of course I probably wouldn't have any time to think about it let alone do it.

Do you feel that guns are okay for hunting- but not for protection? I am just curious. I've heard many Canadians and Americans alike say this.

[SeeBass]

Originally Posted by BigBrodieFan

I live in the US, I rarely have to drive through 'dangerous neighbourhoods' but I would feel more afraid to have a loaded weapon in my possession than to drive through those neighbourhoods, so I see your point.

But, just wondering, you said you wouldn't purchase a weapon to feel peace of mind. Do you have a hunting rifle?

When I lived in Canada with my parents, my father owned (and still owns) about 40 hunting rifles (collects them and hunts). He always kept them locked, followed regulations, etc. My husband owns seven guns and we do not keep them loaded. They are all rifles, no hand guns, and they are locked up too. He hunts occasionally. If someone were to break into our house, our wire haired pointer would be the last thing they'd want to deal with (unless of course they shot him) (not likely to happen). I would never think to unlock one of the rifles and load it, and of course I probably wouldn't have any time to think about it let alone do it.

Do you feel that guns are okay for hunting- but not for protection? I am just curious. I've heard many Canadians and Americans alike say this.

As an ex rural Canadian I am ok with guns for hunting. I mostly see hunting as a form of pest control especially deer in your fields as it can effect an entire families bottom line. But the I feel that an Uzi on Robson is different than a rifle on a farm.

[MrMastodonFarm]

Originally Posted by BigBrodieFan

But, just wondering, you said you wouldn't purchase a weapon to feel peace of mind. Do you have a hunting rifle?
.

No, I don't. I'm not a hunter, at all. My father had some growing up, but they were locked up and he had a rule of never even keeping bullets in the house, only bought what he needed for hunting I think.

[Jordan!]

Originally Posted by MrMastodonFarm

Two points.

First point - Until you don't have to feel safe driving around with a loaded firearm any post about how great it is in Pheonix from you will be ignored or you will be slapped

Second point - I can't imagine ever having to purchase a weapong to feel peace of mind, that's the day I seriously evaluate where I am in life.

Really???

[MrMastodonFarm]

Originally Posted by Bouw N Arrow

Really???

The peace of mind thing?

Yeah, definitly.

[Gozer]

Originally Posted by MrMastodonFarm

The peace of mind thing?

Yeah, definitly.

I agree.

Arguing in favor of guns to improve safety is, at best, a contradiction.

[GreenTeaFrapp]

Originally Posted by Gozer

I agree.

Arguing in favor of guns to improve safety is, at best, a contradiction.

I understand it in a rural situation where you might encounter wildlife that might attack. But in an urban situation, it's only going to cause more problems.

[Bertuzzied]

Originally Posted by BigBrodieFan

I live in the US, I rarely have to drive through 'dangerous neighbourhoods' but I would feel more afraid to have a loaded weapon in my possession than to drive through those neighbourhoods, so I see your point.

But, just wondering, you said you wouldn't purchase a weapon to feel peace of mind. Do you have a hunting rifle?

When I lived in Canada with my parents, my father owned (and still owns) about 40 hunting rifles (collects them and hunts). He always kept them locked, followed regulations, etc. My husband owns seven guns and we do not keep them loaded. They are all rifles, no hand guns, and they are locked up too. He hunts occasionally. If someone were to break into our house, our wire haired pointer would be the last thing they'd want to deal with (unless of course they shot him) (not likely to happen). I would never think to unlock one of the rifles and load it, and of course I probably wouldn't have any time to think about it let alone do it.

Do you feel that guns are okay for hunting- but not for protection? I am just curious. I've heard many Canadians and Americans alike say this.

Do people really still need to hunt in this day and age?

Goto your local walmart and buy Big Game Hunter for your tv and go nuts.

And how severly f-d up is the US when you have to buy a gun to protect yourself from others with guns.

[mikey_the_redneck]

Ask a woman who has been raped in a dark subway station if citizens should be banned from owning firearms. Millions of women who work in large metro areas own pistols.

There is no universal solution to the gun question. Of course accidents happen, but not at an alarming rate so as to bring about a citizen gun ban. That would be over-reacting.

[BigBrodieFan]

Originally Posted by Bertuzzied

Do people really still need to hunt in this day and age?

Goto your local walmart and buy Big Game Hunter for your tv and go nuts.

And how severly f-d up is the US when you have to buy a gun to protect yourself from others with guns.

My father goes on an annual hunting trip in Canada and has done so for the last 44 years. He owns a cabin in Northern Ontario. It's a tradition for him and my uncles. If they shoot a deer or a moose they bring it home and get it ready and eat the meat over the winter. I doubt my 64 year old dad would really want play a video game.


As I said, I wouldn't be comfortable walking around with a loaded gun, regardless of the circumstance. I can't anyway, I have no US Citizenship, nor do I plan on getting one.

[SeeBass]

Originally Posted by mikey_the_redneck

Ask a woman who has been raped in a dark subway station if citizens should be banned from owning firearms. Millions of women who work in large metro areas own pistols.

There is no universal solution to the gun question. Of course accidents happen, but not at an alarming rate so as to bring about a citizen gun ban. That would be over-reacting.

How many women get raped but are saved by having a gun? Probably "not an alarming rate" so as to justify needing a gun. "That would be over-reacting"
Works both ways doesnt it?

Just when I think you couldnt be any more stupid you totally redeem yourself. So only accidental deaths are all that matter?

Oh and there is a successful universal solution to the gun problem....No guns!