Congresswoman and 17 others shot in Arizona

[peter12]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Hmm both far sides of the political spectrum.

The far sides come together at one point, and I would never do disservice to Mr. Marx by comparing him at all to Hitler. Marx was a philosopher, Hitler was a looney.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by peter12

The far sides come together at one point, and I would never do disservice to Mr. Marx by comparing him at all to Hitler. Marx was a philosopher, Hitler was a looney.

Not to get into a political discourse with you, because I'm sure I'd get slaughtered.

But the methods of both political systems were the same and required ruthless application, but in terms of political end goals I think that they were far different.

At the end of the day, Marx and communism was theorized to see all people as an equal voice and as owners of their countries. Everyone works, everyone gets rewarded

Fascism was strong government with no voice by the people. Everyone works, a few get rewarded.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Not to get into a political discourse with you, because I'm sure I'd get slaughtered.

But the methods of both political systems were the same and required ruthless application, but in terms of political end goals I think that they were far different.

At the end of the day, Marx and communism was theorized to see all people as an equal voice and as owners of their countries. Everyone works, everyone gets rewarded

Fascism was strong government with no voice by the people. Everyone works, a few get rewarded.

This feller, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kojeve, argued that the only place Marx's theory had actually been applied and achieved success was in the USA.

[GreenTeaFrapp]

Originally Posted by BigBrodieFan

This guy's youtube talks about literacy and people in District 8 being illiterate- and 'conscience dreaming.' Nutcase. No one's fault but his own.

Do you really think he chose to be a nutcase?

Was he a nutcase before he joined the military? If so, why did they allow him to enlist? If not, what made him a nutcase?

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by GreenTeaFrapp

Do you really think he chose to be a nutcase?

Was he a nutcase before he joined the military? If so, why did they allow him to enlist? If not, what made him a nutcase?

That will probably be looked at in the coming days.

But I did state on this board a few years back that military recruiters are not shrinks, nor are basic training instructors.

And mental illness is often mis interpreted as gung ho. I know that the Canadian Forces has an assessment program put in place during the recruiting cycle now, but its relatively new, and probably still wouldn't have prevented Col Williams for example from rising to his former posting and rank.

[T@T]

The kid had a 9mm glock with an extended clip, when is America finally going to ban handguns?

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by T@T

The kid had a 9mm glock with an extended clip, when is America finally going to ban handguns?

Would a ban have mattered or prevented this? I agree that they need to look at handguns and assault rifle possession but this guy and other killers would have merely found another method.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Would a ban have mattered or prevented this? I agree that they need to look at handguns and assault rifle possession but this guy and other killers would have merely found another method.

Hard to wound or kill 12 people with an axe.

[Blaster86]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

I know that the Canadian Forces has an assessment program put in place during the recruiting cycle now, but its relatively new, and probably still wouldn't have prevented Col Williams for example from rising to his former posting and rank.

About three or four years ago now, one of my friends was eager to go over to Afghanistan. They decided that he was a risk to send over because he was over heard by a commanding officer joking around saying he wanted to be a gunner on a humvee and yell "Get Some" while shooting at attackers.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by peter12

Hard to wound or kill 12 people with an axe.

He'd still find a gun.

Or guns.

The gun trade is too lucrative especially the underground trade for it to go away.

However instead of an AR-15 it would have probably been a nice Chinese made AK-47 and instead of a Glock it would have been an Israeli made UZI.

[mikey_the_redneck]

Originally Posted by peter12

Hard to wound or kill 12 people with an axe.

CaptainCrunch laid it all out for you. If you ban guns, not only will the nation resist, the arms industry will go underground, just like the prohibition of alcohol did.

[T@T]

Originally Posted by mikey_the_redneck

See Mexico as a bad example of what you are preaching here. Mexican citizens cannot own guns, but they are one of the most violent western nations period. They also have more incidents of public officials being attacked.

Are you suggesting the United states would be like Mexico if they banned handguns and assault rifles? Mexico is what it is because of years of corrupt government and police.

How about use Britain, Sweden, France, Canada and many many more instead using a country under basically a civil war as your example.

There is ZERO reason why a citizen should possess a handgun or assault rifle..period.

[mikey_the_redneck]

Originally Posted by T@T

There is ZERO reason why a citizen should possess a handgun or assault rifle..period.

Well, the Constitution disagrees. Also, look to past totalitarian governments to see what happens when citizens have no way to defend themselves from tyranny.

P.S. with a restricted lisence you can buy an AR-15 in Canada.

Switzerland is a country where gun ownership is mandatory for military aged citizens I believe, and not known to be a violent country.

[Gozer]

The far right is instigating these type of attacks.

That should be the focal point of coverage, but it won't be reported as such because of some assinine dedication to balance.

[Gozer]

Originally Posted by mikey_the_redneck

Well, the Constitution disagrees. Also, look to past totalitarian governments to see what happens when citizens have no way to defend themselves from tyranny..

I agree about the constitutional argument, But the biggest reason the gov't shouldn't act right now is the potential civil terrorism that would result from Obama being the "face" of the restrictions.

[T@T]

Originally Posted by mikey_the_redneck

CaptainCrunch laid it all out for you. If you ban guns, not only will the nation resist, the arms industry will go underground, just like the prohibition of alcohol did.

Good, let it go underground just as it is here and most countrys. most of these shootings are because of a mentally ill person snapping, are most going to hunt down an underground gun before they snap?

[mikey_the_redneck]

Originally Posted by T@T

Good, let it go underground just as it is here and most countrys. most of these shootings are because of a mentally ill person snapping, are most going to hunt down an underground gun before they snap?

Yeah if they are motivated. The market demand is what drives underground business. If a kid on a school ground can easily find drugs, I'm sure it wouldn't be hard for an adult to track down a weapon if they needed one.
Simply banning guns is terribly short sighted...you can't just strip a basic right of people when a bad incident occurs. It's only going to get worse unfortunately, as this political unrest will soon become economic unrest and the whole country will be angry.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Gozer

The far right is instigating these type of attacks.

That should be the focal point of coverage, but it won't be reported as such because of some assinine dedication to balance.

Then respectfully they're doing a pretty piss poor job of instigation. They've had two years, and they've only managed to get one mentally ill nutcase to move on their call to action?

This is more about a mentally ill loser with his own motives then about some shadowy politically based civil war.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by T@T

Good, let it go underground just as it is here and most countrys. most of these shootings are because of a mentally ill person snapping, are most going to hunt down an underground gun before they snap?

One thing that always stands out to me is that they always find these massive gun and explosive collections after the shooting and these guns range from the legal to the completely illegal.

I'm not against gun control, but if your going to have gun control then you need to also have the criminal justice system to back it up.

Canada for example has gun control, but we're seeing gun crimes because there's not a big enough punative bite for people that use legal and illegal guns in crimes.

Plus on the whole thing, Canada and the U.S. and guns. Canada was never the gun culture that the States was. You will never ever be able to remove something thats mentioned in the constitution.

[Gozer]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Then respectfully they're doing a pretty piss poor job of instigation. They've had two years, and they've only managed to get one mentally ill nutcase to move on their call to action?

This is more about a mentally ill loser with his own motives then about some shadowy politically based civil war.

If you look back on this incident as isolated in two years then I will awknowledge being the panic-driven sissy of the thead.

Even if this incident has nothing to do with politics, the left wing cannot continue to ignore the hate-mongering of the right - and the right (as well as the ignorant) will not mellow in the near future without recanting their entire rhetoric.