Can you point me to a source that shows fajita is pronounced fa-ge-ta?
The source I provided (Merrian Webster a very reputable dictionary) has it has fa-he-tah.
I have to side with Cecil on this one. Bruschetta is not an English word, therefore there is no "English" pronunciation for it. There's simply the Italian way.
The reason why English don't use the French "r" and other such things is due to our accent (or lack thereof.)
It has nothing to do with accent. It has to do with the fact that it's not our language.
And bruschetta is an English word. Borrowed from Italian. Like many, many others. There is not "simply the Italian way". Table comes from French. Do you say it the French way?
theres a difference between pronouncing things a certain way and a translation being available.
so while cecil is correct that no one would say chicken fajita with a hard J, temp is correct that no one who speaks english refers to rome as "roma" or moscow as "moscova". Existing and accepted english translations exist for these words, while bruschetta and rendezvous have remained "untranslated" but used in english language
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theres a difference between pronouncing things a certain way and a translation being available.
so while cecil is correct that no one would say chicken fajita with a hard J, temp is correct that no one who speaks english refers to rome as "roma" or moscow as "moscova". Existing and accepted english translations exist for these words, while bruschetta and rendezvous have remained "untranslated" but used in english language
No one is disagreeing with the bolded part. As you correctly point out those are translations, not borrowed words.
Calling bruschetta, bru-shetta is not different that saying ren-dez-vous (ren as in ren and stimpy, dez as in rhymes with pez and vous as in rhymes with loose) instead of the correct ron-day-voo.
I should add, I've been to Italian restaurants that get bruschetta wrong. Although I question their authenticity if they can't get brushcetta right.
And honestly probably 90% of people who aren't Italian or haven't been to Italy or aren't frequently corrected by their Italian friends wouldn't know the difference.
Even I say it wrong occassionally to avoid getting confused looks from the clerk at sobeys when I want some bruschetta. Now the fact that simply mixing tomatos, herbs and olive oil isn't actually bruschetta is a whole other discussion but I digress.
I'm not implying that 90% of the population are stupid because they can't get bruschetta right. I'm saying they don't know, or like Temp don't care. The correct way to say it is bru-sketta, there is no debate about that. If someone wants to say it wrong they can go right ahead. Just don't pretend you're saying it right when you aren't.
Last edited by Cecil Terwilliger; 12-09-2010 at 10:11 PM.
Saying someone is in ESL isn't an insult? Whatever you say.
no, asking if someone is ESL is not an insult. You seem to have a strong grasp of Italian, but your English appears to be lacking. That is why I asked.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger
Well that is the case, you'd know a J is typically not silent. It makes a guh (soft g) sound. And you'd probably pronounce it fagita.
Like you say typically. At times (like this one) it can and is.
Also LOL at calling my source, Merrian Webster a very reputable dictionary, BS when you cite Wikipedia.
No one is disagreeing with the bolded part. As you correctly point out those are translations, not borrowed words.
They're more borrowed than translated. Translation isn't a very common method for place names to go from one language to another (usually seems to happen in places that have more than one language).
Rome and Moscow are just Roma and Москва anglicized.
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In my Linguistics 203 class, we had two classes when we had to learn the 'Ebonics' dialect of English. Aka "black" talk.
"I seen a movie."
"We was out at da mall last night wif some friends."
Apparently, there are consistencies in the way that "Ebonics" ruins English, to the point that their way of speak has been legitimized as a dialect of English. There are even teachers in regions of the Deep South who teach using this language, so as to better communicate to their students.
My old boss used to pronounce the word 'entrepreneur' like this:
Awn-trep-iner
I about died in every business meeting I had with him.
The problem with the French is that they have no word for "Entrepreneur".
This is a false quote attributed to George W. Bush. It seemed like something that he might have said, so it gained popularity for a while. Unfortunately, he didn't really say it.
Someone mentioned "borducks" - my boss actually pronounces merlot to rhyme with robot. She also went on vacation to The Barbados, uses the word "brung" (e.g. "I brung in the paper with me today"), and once referred to FOIP legislation as IHOP legislation. She also pronounces the Calgary road as "John Laurier".
__________________ You don't stay up at night wondering if you'll get an Oleg Saprykin.
It seems these things really grind your gears. Glad a new thread was created as there was nothing here previously to cover this.
Hmm. Not my intention when I started the thread. Plus this is specifically about a) misquotations from real people or plays, movies etc and b) things people generally just say wrong.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Temporary_User
no, asking if someone is ESL is not an insult. You seem to have a strong grasp of Italian, but your English appears to be lacking. That is why I asked.
Really, you back up your insult by saying it wasn't an insult by making more childish insults?
You seem really cultured. I bet your name is Jeb isn't it?
They're more borrowed than translated. Translation isn't a very common method for place names to go from one language to another (usually seems to happen in places that have more than one language).
Rome and Moscow are just Roma and Москва anglicized.
And what about names from the Far East? Are those simply anglicized?
The best part about reading all this talk about pronouncing words in "the proper English way" is that the biggest effect on pronunciation is accent, and Canadians mispronounce nearly every word in the English language.
Really, you back up your insult by saying it wasn't an insult by making more childish insults?
You seem really cultured. I bet your name is Jeb isn't it?
Sorry you have taken anything I've said as an insult. Illustrating how your knowledge of the English language is lacking is not really an insult.
Here is a little story for you:
Back in my first year of university I got a D on a math exam. Marking my exam a D was my professors way of telling me that I only got 55 out of a 100 on the exam, and that my skill in the area was somewhat lacking. Did I take that as an insult? Should I have?
No, he outlined the instances and how I was wrong, I accepted them and learned from my mistakes.
Dude I think you're done here. Time to go to bed perhaps?
Sorry you have taken anything I've said as an insult. Illustrating how your knowledge of the English language is lacking is not really an insult.
Here is a little story for you:
Back in my first year of university I got a D on a math exam. Marking my exam a D was my professors way of telling me that I only got 55 out of a 100 on the exam, and that my skill in the area was somewhat lacking. Did I take that as an insult? Should I have?
No, he outlined the instances and how I was wrong, I accepted them and learned from my mistakes.
In my Linguistics 203 class, we had two classes when we had to learn the 'Ebonics' dialect of English. Aka "black" talk.
"I seen a movie."
"We was out at da mall last night wif some friends."
Apparently, there are consistencies in the way that "Ebonics" ruins English, to the point that their way of speak has been legitimized as a dialect of English. There are even teachers in regions of the Deep South who teach using this language, so as to better communicate to their students.
I find this ridiculous.
Completely ridiculous. This to me is the reason why the age of US economic dominance is coming to an end. The education system down there is just terrible.
In my Linguistics 203 class, we had two classes when we had to learn the 'Ebonics' dialect of English. Aka "black" talk.
"I seen a movie."
"We was out at da mall last night wif some friends."
Apparently, there are consistencies in the way that "Ebonics" ruins English, to the point that their way of speak has been legitimized as a dialect of English. There are even teachers in regions of the Deep South who teach using this language, so as to better communicate to their students.
I find this ridiculous.
Are you serious?
Who the hell are the morons that approve this stuff?
Kind of going off the original topic but at work we have a "Near Miss report" that has to be filled out anytime you almost have an accident in the name of safety! I've tried to explain it to people but nobody seems to follow my logic:
If you had a near miss, you had an accident. If you nearly missed, you didn't miss at all but almost did. That's an accident, not the avoidance of one. It should be a "Near Accident report".
Nobody gets it.
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