'Intactivists' to San Francisco: Ban circumcision

[burn_this_city]

Its funny reading posts from intact guys, the extreme language being thrown around is pretty comical.

[Boblobla]

Originally Posted by burn_this_city

Its funny reading posts from intact guys, the extreme language being thrown around is pretty comical.

They are just mad because their dinks look funny.

[red sky]

I still have nightmares about my circumcision.

[burn_this_city]

Originally Posted by Boblobla

They are just mad because their dinks look funny.

I'd have to reread this thread, but did a single snipped guy lament the loss of his foreskin?

[CaptainCrunch]

If you kids don't knock it off, I swear to god I'll pull this car over and each of you is getting a circumcision

[Calgaryborn]

Originally Posted by SebC

I agree that in most cases it doesn't really matter (and where there is a clear medical imperative for circumcision, I think we're all in favour). Given that, how is it preferable to give the choice to the parents rather than to the individual?

The best time to preform a circumcision is when a child is new born. He is recieving a ton of antibodies through his mother's milk. Also the penis is very small and therefore requires a very small cut. Parents make all the decisions for a new born and continue to for the first few years. I still make the majoity of choices for my 10 and 11 year old. Although now they have a significant amount of imput.

If I were to wait until my boys were adults and had them make the decision they would most likely not have the procedure done unless they had a religious motivation. The reason would be fear of the pain which would be much more acute and last a lot longer than if they were done as a baby. I know this because I witnessed my brother's discomfort when he was circumcised at 10 for medical reasons. I've also witnessed both my boys being done as babies and like many have said there was very little fuss when it was being done. Moreover there appeared to be no awareness of their little wound while it healed. I don't know but, I do wonder if the penis and area gets more sensitive as a boy moves into puberty.

How long is this thread? Yet we've have not found one person who was circumcised by their parents and resented their decision. Some wouldn't carry on the tradition with their boy and that is fine. But it is telling that those who picked this hill to die over really have no pony in the race.

[4X4]

Originally Posted by Boblobla

They are just mad because their dinks look funny.

Jeez, man. This actually made me LOL.

[Boblobla]

Originally Posted by Calgaryborn

The best time to preform a circumcision is when a child is new born. He is recieving a ton of antibodies through his mother's milk. Also the penis is very small and therefore requires a very small cut. Parents make all the decisions for a new born and continue to for the first few years. I still make the majoity of choices for my 10 and 11 year old. Although now they have a significant amount of imput.

Pfft, speak for yourself man.

[burn_baby_burn]

Originally Posted by Ark2

By removing the foreskin, the nerve endings at the head of the penis become less sensitive, making sex less enjoyable.

How would anybody really know this? What kind of studies or experiments have there been to come up with this conclusion? I'm not saying your wrong, just asking how one would know sex is more enjoyable uncircumcised than circumcised? Or is it something that certain people are just assuming?

[troutman]

Originally Posted by burn_baby_burn

How would anybody really know this? What kind of studies or experiments have there been to come up with this conclusion? I'm not saying your wrong, just asking how one would know sex is more enjoyable uncircumcised than circumcised? Or is it something that certain people are just assuming?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_...f_circumcision

Results of studies of the effect on penile sensitivity have been mixed. In a British study of 150 men circumcised as adults for penile problems, Masood et al. found that 38% reported improved penile sensation (p=0.01), 18% reported worse penile sensation, while the remainder (44%) reported no change.[1] In a survey of men circumcised as adults for medical (93%) or elective (7%) reasons, Fink et al. found an association between adult circumcision and decreased penile sensitivity that "bordered on statistical significance" (p=0.08).[2]

In a 2008 study, Krieger et al. stated that "Adult male circumcision was not associated with sexual dysfunction. Circumcised men reported increased penile sensitivity and enhanced ease of reaching orgasm."[3] In a 2009 study, Cortés-González et al. reported a statistically significant improvement in "perception of sexual events" (p=0.04).

http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/?p=3310

… [T]here were no reported differences in sexual satisfaction in the randomized study arms in either the Ugandan or Kenyan male circumcision trials or among men before and after they were circumcised. In addition, it has been hypothesized that behavioral disinhibition may counteract any protective effects of male circumcision. However, there was no consistent or substantial evidence of change in sexual behavior after circumcision in the Kenyan or Ugandan randomized controlled trials.

The World Health Organization/Joint United Nations Program on HIV/AIDS has concluded that “the research evidence that male circumcision is efficacious in reducing sexual transmission of HIV from women to men is compelling … and has been proven beyond reasonable doubt.” In 2007, the American Urological Association revised their policy to state that “circumcision should be presented as an option for health benefits.” However, the AAP, American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists, and American Medical Association are likely to have the greatest influence on parental decisions and insurance coverage for neonatal circumcision in the United States. With the mounting evidence that male circumcision decreases viral STIs, genital ulcer disease, and penile inflammatory disorders in men, and bacterial vaginosis, T vaginalis infection, and genital ulcer disease in their female partners, it is time for the AAP policy to fully reflect these current data.

http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/?p=431

The science is quite clear; circumcision effectively prevents the transmission of a number of important diseases, and used in congress with condoms has a great potential to reduce the plagues killing millions of people yearly. What has yet to be answered is whether the human cost of circumcision, whatever that may be, justifies its use.

[troutman]

http://www.cps.ca/english/statements/FN/fn96-01.htm

Values: The literature was assessed to determine whether neonatal circumcision improves the health of boys and men and is a cost-effective approach to preventing penile problems and associated urinary tract conditions. Religious and personal values were not included in the assessment.
Benefits, harms and costs: The effect of neonatal circumcision on the incidence of urinary tract infection, sexually transmitted diseases, cancer of the penis, cervical cancer and penile problems the complications of circumcision; and estimates of the costs of neonatal circumcision and of the treatment of later penile conditions, urinary tract infections and complications of circumcision.
Recommendation: Circumcision of newborns should not be routinely performed.

http://www.cfp.ca/cgi/content/full/53/12/2096

It is time for the medical establishment to recognize the compelling evidence favouring newborn circumcision10 and catch up to the public (80% of American males are circumcised).

http://www.cfp.ca/cgi/content/full/53/12/2097

Although there is evidence that circumcision will provide certain health benefits, the evidence continues to show that for little boys born in Canada, where antibiotics are readily available, the physical harm outweighs long-term benefit for both HIV and UTI prevention.

The ethical issues in removing healthy tissue from patients who are unable to consent to the procedure forms the basis of another treatise. One can only imagine the outcry if baby girls were submitted to cosmetic surgery in the first few days of life. Do our baby boys deserve less?

This study presents hard data on complications: http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/cgi/content/full/118/5/1971

Two recent negative cost-benefit reviews:
http://rsh.sagepub.com/cgi/content/abstract/125/6/259
http://mdm.sagepub.com/cgi/content/abstract/24/6/584

[puckluck]

Why is this even turning into a right or wrong argument? Last I checked circumcisons weren't covered by your tax dollars and are paid by the parents.

So why do people care what other people do with their kids? O right because it's the internet, but in reality 99% of you wouldn't dare tell someone what to do with their kids in real life.

[Stranger]

We should make this a poll. Are you cut or un-cut? I still think the snipped are in the majority.

[GreenTeaFrapp]

Originally Posted by puckluck

Why is this even turning into a right or wrong argument?

Because some people are a little too interested in what other people are doing with penises.

It's not a fetus, it's a foreskin. Why care what someone else decides to do, or not do, with it?

[Bill Bumface]

Originally Posted by Finny61

Gentlemen, less sensitivity can be a good thing
Stop trying to use that as an argument.

Why? It's not like I'm trying to get her off.

More time for video games!

[burn_this_city]

Originally Posted by hulkrogan

Why? It's not like I'm trying to get her off.

More time for video games!

You: "Was it good for you?"
Her: "Best 7 seconds of my life"

[Finny61]

Originally Posted by hulkrogan

Why? It's not like I'm trying to get her off.

More time for video games!

*clap* *clap* *clap*

[Coys1882]

Originally Posted by GreenTeaFrapp

It's not a fetus, it's a foreskin. Why care what someone else decides to do, or not do, with it?

What if it were labia?

[red '00]

Originally Posted by getbak

Personally, I wouldn't want to have to explain to my son that I had him cut because his mother preferred fellating men who were cut.

Winner.

[red '00]

Originally Posted by burn_this_city

Its funny reading posts from intact guys, the extreme language being thrown around is pretty comical.

How dare you make fun of the extreme mutilation of infants once beautiful genitalia. The violent removal of foreskin is no laughing matter.