Plasma TVs and Image Burn/Retention

[Yamer]

Originally Posted by onetwo_threefour

Sounds like you've bought something similar to what I bought and recommended back on page 1 or so. I too read about the buzzing, but also read that it was an uncommon problem and most of the posts about it seemed older at the time I was looking into it. Interestingly, if you do a bit of research it seems like the difference between the 5 series and the 6 series is even less than is advertised. Some of the features are just locked out in the diagnostic mode and there is a relatively simple way to change the settings to unlock some of the better adjustments. I'm on my phine right now but I'll look later for the link that discusses this. I did it mysdelf a few months ago with no problem but YMMV. If I remember correctly it unlocked some much better picture controls and maybe a game mode.

Mine is the PN540 and if you bought a higher number than that this stuff might already be unlocked.

Good luck...

Yeah, I've been lurking on AVSforum for a bit and found out how to go through the service menu to change the model. I can change it to a 590, which has Cinema Smooth....although I hear that feature doesn't perform up to snub. I'll have to research a little more to see if doing it is worth it because I don't want to void my warranty or something silly.

Originally Posted by kunkstyle

Glad you clarified. I thought you brought it home laying flat and were going to be on to TV #6.

I figured that you thought I might have done that after I left the original response. Yes, it is a very big risk to transport it anything but upright. I would certainly feel shame if I did that and wound up with a broken set. I need to purchase a bigger vehicle for these adventures.

[Yamer]

Alright, a bit of an update.

I have the TV set up and I am running the slides provided here: http://www.eaprogramming.com/

Will probably do that for the next few weeks, let it build up to at least 200 hours.

So far, so good. The plasma definitely has a directional buzz. When I sit dead center to the middle of the screen (no matter what distance) there is an electrical buzzing sound like a bee. If I move a foot any which way (up, down, left, right) it seems to disappear. When I turn my head left/right it increases in intensity. However, even when I am in that dead center position facing forwards the buzz isn't terribly distracting unless there is a quiet scene or I have the volume down low. Completely directional. I think I will remedy this by elevating the set to about a foot above eye level. If anyone has a better suggestion or a known fix let me know.

I went into the media play option and it had some fixed menus, and the immediate ghosting/IR was quite noticeable. Probably didn't spend more than 5 minutes in these menus, and after watching some standard content it went away in the same amount of time. I am sure after breaking it in the IR will be much better.

I am just as impressed with this set as I was with the Samsung LCD. Here is hoping that I didn't get a defective panel this time. The features are nice, and the PQ on standard definition is pleasing. I won't know much more about it until I am able to use it, which I am not going to do until the break in period expires. I want to speed that process up by leaving the set on overnight but I don't know if it is the best idea, even with a few hours to cool down each day.

If the buzz is the only thing that I have to worry about with this set, I think I will be quite happy....as long as the IR improves.

[onetwo_threefour]

Originally Posted by Yamer

Yeah, I've been lurking on AVSforum for a bit and found out how to go through the service menu to change the model. I can change it to a 590, which has Cinema Smooth....although I hear that feature doesn't perform up to snub. I'll have to research a little more to see if doing it is worth it because I don't want to void my warranty or something silly.



I figured that you thought I might have done that after I left the original response. Yes, it is a very big risk to transport it anything but upright. I would certainly feel shame if I did that and wound up with a broken set. I need to purchase a bigger vehicle for these adventures.

You may be right about the CinemaSmooth, and that may be the only difference in changing the model number. I think I decided to do it because I had also bought a 24p Blu-Ray player at the same time and wanted to see if the 24p support was noticeably better. To be frank, I can't say I noticed a huge difference, but I'm not a real cinemaphile either so I might be a poor judge. Since going into the service menu can theoretically void your warranty, it may not be worth it...

[Yamer]

Originally Posted by onetwo_threefour

You may be right about the CinemaSmooth, and that may be the only difference in changing the model number. I think I decided to do it because I had also bought a 24p Blu-Ray player at the same time and wanted to see if the 24p support was noticeably better. To be frank, I can't say I noticed a huge difference, but I'm not a real cinemaphile either so I might be a poor judge. Since going into the service menu can theoretically void your warranty, it may not be worth it...

I think there are also 2 additional picture settings, CAL-Day and CAL-Night...IIRC. As someone who does not own a BluRay I don't find I will need to change it. A few reviews I have read said that despite being a desired feature by most users, Cinema Smooth does more harm than good. I guess it increases brightness and decreases shadow detail, but it does make things...well, a little smoother.

Don't take my word for it. I am also not a videophile. As long as the set works I am happy. After years and years of blur, it's a little disorientating to see such smooth action. The only time it seems to look natural is when I am watching M*A*S*H on History Channel. Looks amazing even on a 120 HZ LCD.

[Ryan Coke]

FWIW, I can't remember my first, but my last Panny plasma I had to lay down to bring home and have never had any issues.

Glad you seem to be happy with the Samsung, fingers crossed it stays that way. As much as I tend NOT to rely on my in store perception (too many variables with how it is set up and what they are pumping in as far as input type), I do rely more on research, so the comments about some issues with late model Panny's vs. Samsungs seems sound.

Good luck!

[DownhillGoat]

See post #68.
Glad to see it's out of the box and running smooth (except for the buzzing - a nice surround sound setup will mask that though ).
Keeping my fingers crossed for you.

[Hack&Lube]

Originally Posted by Yamer

Alright, a bit of an update.

I have the TV set up and I am running the slides provided here: http://www.eaprogramming.com/

Will probably do that for the next few weeks, let it build up to at least 200 hours.

So far, so good. The plasma definitely has a directional buzz. When I sit dead center to the middle of the screen (no matter what distance) there is an electrical buzzing sound like a bee. If I move a foot any which way (up, down, left, right) it seems to disappear. When I turn my head left/right it increases in intensity. However, even when I am in that dead center position facing forwards the buzz isn't terribly distracting unless there is a quiet scene or I have the volume down low. Completely directional. I think I will remedy this by elevating the set to about a foot above eye level. If anyone has a better suggestion or a known fix let me know.

I went into the media play option and it had some fixed menus, and the immediate ghosting/IR was quite noticeable. Probably didn't spend more than 5 minutes in these menus, and after watching some standard content it went away in the same amount of time. I am sure after breaking it in the IR will be much better.

I am just as impressed with this set as I was with the Samsung LCD. Here is hoping that I didn't get a defective panel this time. The features are nice, and the PQ on standard definition is pleasing. I won't know much more about it until I am able to use it, which I am not going to do until the break in period expires. I want to speed that process up by leaving the set on overnight but I don't know if it is the best idea, even with a few hours to cool down each day.

If the buzz is the only thing that I have to worry about with this set, I think I will be quite happy....as long as the IR improves.

That buzz sounds like a pretty stupid thing. I've never heard anything like that on LG or Panasonic plasmas.

I went into the media play option and it had some fixed menus, and the immediate ghosting/IR was quite noticeable. Probably didn't spend more than 5 minutes in these menus, and after watching some standard content it went away in the same amount of time. I am sure after breaking it in the IR will be much better.

I haven't seen image retention after just 5 minutes in menus either on the plasmas me or friends own.

I'm not sure why you went with the Samsung after thinking you would go with a Panasonic but I do hope this one works out for you.

[Galakanokis]

Ah monitor fun! It can be a pain in the ass for sure. Screw plasma and LCD just wait for the OLED tv's to get bigger then you are golden. The picture blows the pants off of either plasma or LCD.

Plasma is the way to go in the meantime though. Currently Panasonic makes the best monitor out there, a pro model that we use in film restoration and colour correction. It has its' issues but bang for buck nothing comes closer. A 50" runs in the $2200 range, a 42" about $1700. Has a slew of options as well including SDI and you have RGB gain bias control for colour balance, which is why we use it.

The reason to season your plasmas is to settle down the gases and how the pixels rotate through the RGB colours. We do this with full field 100% white for 200 to 240 hours. This also evens out what the pixels are doing, they are all behaving the same. If you run different images some pixels will not be as active as the others. From the testing we have done we haven't seen it make a big difference in the image retention. We will typically run a 10 min white wash after every session to clear up any images anyways, no problems.

[Yamer]

Originally Posted by Hack&Lube

That buzz sounds like a pretty stupid thing. I've never heard anything like that on LG or Panasonic plasmas.



I haven't seen image retention after just 5 minutes in menus either on the plasmas me or friends own.

I'm not sure why you went with the Samsung after thinking you would go with a Panasonic but I do hope this one works out for you.

It's brand new, so IR is going to be a little more obvious in the first 200 or so hours (according to any research I have done). As long as it is temporary I am OK with it.

And I think I explained why I choose the Samsung over the Panasonic earlier in the thread. It's not like I have a ton of choice at Costco. And if I'm going to pay the same price anywhere I go then I will take the free extended warranty and 90 day return policy any day.

[alltherage]

You know, I used to work in Home Theatre and never once did we "break in" our TVs... and they were almost always good to go.

I didn't "break in" my samsung and it looks fantastic. Like I said, brighter, clearer than my friend's XBR6. Professed by HIM.

Good luck Yamer, you seem to be a little paranoid but I'm sure you will be happy with your choice!

[Yamer]

Originally Posted by alltherage

You know, I used to work in Home Theatre and never once did we "break in" our TVs... and they were almost always good to go.

I didn't "break in" my samsung and it looks fantastic. Like I said, brighter, clearer than my friend's XBR6. Professed by HIM.

Good luck Yamer, you seem to be a little paranoid but I'm sure you will be happy with your choice!

Oh, just a little.

[Yamer]

Hey, looks like it is time for an update.

I used the break in slides for about 220 hours, which I figured was plenty of time. So I went and tested the IR. I left a menu on the screen for about 8 minutes, and when I went to switch back there was still very obvious IR. That was certainly displeasing in it's own, but I wanted to also test how long it would take to go away. I ran a snowy channel for 15 minutes, and it was fainter but still there. I ran the scrolling feature for an additional 15 minutes, and again it was fainter but still there. That isn't the kicker, though.

What did I notice in the lower left hand corner? A dead frickin' pixel.

Between heavy IR and the dead pixel this set is going back. For anyone reading this I do not recommend Samsung sets, they are faulty. Thank the lord that it is the season of the sale. And I will not be buying a plasma again, too much worry for something I may possibly have extended gaming sessions on.

[jayocal]

Sorry about your luck Yamer.

I have 2 friends that bought Samsung TVs ~3 years ago. BOTH of them have recently crapped out. (screen is blank but on/off indicator is lit) When they worked, the pictures looked great.

Last month I picked up a 40" Sharp Aquos LCD (LC40D78UN). So far no problems. Picture looks fantastic for movies and PS3 (game mode). I found some easy configuration tips and settings online that helped improved the picture.

It took me a while to decide which brand to buy. Apparently Sharp Aquos' are kick-axe. I hope so!

[Hack&Lube]

Yamer, you have the worst luck my friend. Condolences.

Maybe it's just the Costco models are inherently cheaper/different. I know they carry store specific budget models that most other retailers don't touch or get.

[Yamer]

Originally Posted by Hack&Lube

Yamer, you have the worst luck my friend. Condolences.

Maybe it's just the Costco models are inherently cheaper/different. I know they carry store specific budget models that most other retailers don't touch or get.

I'm starting to think this as well. It seems highly illogical, but I don't understand why I continue to get defective panel after defective panel. I waded through the terrible drivers to check out what they had on the floor (again), and it is slim to none. Seems I have tried every model they have in my price range.

Thankfully, most of the electronic stores in Red Deer are huddled together on the south end so I was able to check out a few stores. There are some nice deals, but again not a whole bunch in my price range.

I appreciate everyone's virtual support and I don't want to drone on and on about my decision process and bad luck. All I can say is that as a gamer I am too paranoid about plasma, and too paranoid about Costco. I'm going to take this Samsung back after the weekend. If I can afford an additional in-store warranty I will get one, otherwise I am not going to worry too much about it at this point.

[Hack&Lube]

Originally Posted by Yamer

I'm starting to think this as well. It seems highly illogical, but I don't understand why I continue to get defective panel after defective panel. I waded through the terrible drivers to check out what they had on the floor (again), and it is slim to none. Seems I have tried every model they have in my price range.

Thankfully, most of the electronic stores in Red Deer are huddled together on the south end so I was able to check out a few stores. There are some nice deals, but again not a whole bunch in my price range.

I appreciate everyone's virtual support and I don't want to drone on and on about my decision process and bad luck. All I can say is that as a gamer I am too paranoid about plasma, and too paranoid about Costco. I'm going to take this Samsung back after the weekend. If I can afford an additional in-store warranty I will get one, otherwise I am not going to worry too much about it at this point.

It just seems that you keep compromising on the suggestions and advice that have popped up often in this thread just because you want to save a few bucks or get a costco model which in the end defeated the purpose of that advice (spend a little more, maybe try Panasonic plasma, etc.)

I know from gaming on a $1000 (on sale) Panasonic plasma and leaving it for like half and hour didn't leave any IR that didn't go away after shutting it off for like 5 minutes. I also know my $1700 60" LG plasma has no problems with IR because I run a computer on it half the time with the windows bars and all that jazz being static for a long, long time.

Goodluck on your continued search for a TV. Go for an LED that you feel is right perhaps.

[McG]

all i can add to this thread is that i bought the lg 47le5300 from costco for 1199 and although i haven't pushed it yet, i have watched a number of movies and the picture looks great.

i followed the instructions on the internet to get the right panel/screen and so far i am pretty happy with it.

its from costco, it is the same model that i can find in many, many stores, except i get the 90 days warranty from costco and 2 years plus an additional year warranty on the tv itself.

i also bought the kanto articulating mount from costco and although i wish it tilted down more, it was easy to put up compared to 3 other mounts that i had here.

as i posted previously, plasma is probably the right choice for me, but for my family plasma just won't work.

i am prepared to live with some of the failings of led/lcd tvs until the next generation of whatever tvs comes out, knowing that i have the costco warranty behind the tv.

[Yamer]

Not going the plasma route again. It may be ideal for some people, but I do not trust the technology to hold up to extended gaming sessions...especially EA titles. I only have about $1100 all in, and have been spending way too much of my Saturday (and prob Sunday) looking at different sets.

My options are:

Sharp Aquos 46" LED 120 Hz
http://www.futureshop.ca/en-CA/produ...3268afbbdden02

LG 47" LCD 120 Hz
http://www.futureshop.ca/en-CA/produ...45f55d0f56en02

LG 47" LCD 240 Hz
http://www.futureshop.ca/en-CA/produ...ef76d60de2en02

Sony Bravia 46" LCD 120 Hz
http://www.futureshop.ca/en-CA/produ...627222dd33en02

These are all in my price range and fairly comparable. Most of the sales seem to end on the 25th, so I will have to be hasty. There are things I like about each model.

Any suggestions/opinions would be welcome.

[Vulcan]

I've had good luck with two LG LCDs but it seems your mileage will vary.

I'd wait till this Thursday or Friday to see what sales are on for the American Thanksgiving. (Black Friday)

[OBCT]

Between the LG's, I'd personally go with the 240 Hz model. For me, 20k less contrast ratio is an acceptable trade-off for the doubled refresh rate, couple extra connections (component video and media card), added DivX playback, and 10% decrease in weight. They're really very similar.

I hear a lot of good things about Sharp LCDs, so I wouldn't hesitate to buy that Aquos (based on reputation alone). Looking at the specs, though, I'm not so sure. Aside from the remarkable 3mil:1 contrast ratio and ample connectors, there are two suspect areas. 1.) 120 Hz refresh rate, and probably even more importantly, 2.) 4ms response time; these specs put up red flags for me. You say you're playing video games and watching sports -- these weak points are likely to have a noticeable affect on these activities, IMO.

I haven't been super high on Sony TVs in awhile, but I've heard enough people tell me how much they like their's to keep the Bravia in the running. There aren't any areas that really jump out at me to separate this set from the others when looking at the specs, other than minor things like: Audio Enhancement, Auto Volume Correction, 4 HDMI inputs, HDMI PC input compatibility, and MPEG movie playback. The reviews seem mostly positive, however.

It's a tough call in the end. I suggest zoning in on a couple of key areas that matter most to you and finding as much pertinent user feedback as possible.

Here's to your next set being "the one"!!