George Bush comes out of hiding- His book "Decision Points" & upcoming interviews

[Mike F]

Originally Posted by Green

Yes. He was responsible for the overspending and increasing enormous tax cuts. The budget deficit can be traced back to him.

Originally Posted by MelBridgeman

That's not why the economy tanked.

Many economic theorists believe that the US is struggling to come out of the recession due to the huge deficit and debt and the uncertainty they cause investors about the country's long term solvency. If that's true, and given Bush is responsible for tax cuts and wars that the US has had to borrow billions to pay for, you can indeed blame Bush for the state of the economy.

Of course I believed for a week that California legalized pot, so take my opinions with a grain of salt.

[Azure]

Wars generate economic growth. The deals Boeing and others are making with foreign countries are going to create thousands of jobs. The Iraq War likewise generated a lot of economic growth, albeit in an industry where you wouldn't want it. That being said, the billions were in my opinion wasted, but the fact is the wasted money means nothing when you start to think about all the other implications. Like a stronger Iran, turmoil, etc, etc.

So, I don't think you can blame Bush so much for the recession, considering he wasn't the man behind sub prime mortgages, and a lot of stupid regulation laws that don't work in the first place. I think you can go back 30-40 years and find a lot of other people to blame.

The deficit is another tricky subject. $300-$400 billion is nothing compared to the trillion dollar deficit Obama has, but the truth of it is, Congress is more to blame than both Presidents.

In the end I think the US will pull out of everything in pretty decent shape. I'm seeing a lot of encouraging signs from Democrats(wanting to push Pelosi out for one), and I think they can rebound and help make some pretty decent things happen.

Reform is the only option right now. And with reform comes a lot of cost cutting. Starting with $100 billion to the DoD right off the bat.

[KootenayFlamesFan]

The book may have some interesting points, but he's only going to say/print what he wants you to believe, not exactly what happened or what he was thinking.

Would be great if it was a 100% honest memoir, but it won't be.

[Weiser Wonder]

Originally Posted by KootenayFlamesFan

The book may have some interesting points, but he's only going to say/print what he wants you to believe, not exactly what happened or what he was thinking.

Would be great if it was a 100% honest memoir, but it won't be.

It actually seems pretty honest from some of the quotes. Kanye West being is biggest regret (if he's lying about this then he needs to learn how to lie better). Admitting to torture (very honest). I think with GWB, what you see is what you get. He's not some brilliant political mind hiding behind plain and cumbersome rhetoric.

[HOZ]

[Cowperson]

Originally Posted by KootenayFlamesFan

The book may have some interesting points, but he's only going to say/print what he wants you to believe, not exactly what happened or what he was thinking.

Would be great if it was a 100% honest memoir, but it won't be.

Aside from a few politically motivated jabs, I thought this piece in the Washington Post putting the GW Bush II book in context with other Presidential memoirs was quite good.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...110602835.html

Bush himself has stated in numerous interviews the book isn't an attempt to re-write or shape history but rather to provide his recollection as to why his decisions were made. . . . . . and let historians ultimately argue, in context with the other information they have, whether he was right or wrong.

Kanye West has conceded he was wrong to label Bush a racist. Bill Clinton liked the book.

Most presidents gain some luster the further removed they are from office. Bush II himself, in a recent opinion poll, had a 43% approval rating while Jimmy Carter, who left office with similar approval ratings as Bush did, is nearing saint-like status. And Gerald Ford became a curiously loved figure after appearing to be a bumbling oaf while in office.

It's always useful to have both sides of the story.

Cowperson

[CaptainCrunch]

Chances are that I will pick up the book at some point. for all of our anger and some hatred of Bush, he was the sitting president at a pivotal point in American history, you can't say that about Clinton, nor Bush senior, nor even Ronald Reagan even though Reagan was the sitting president in a pivotal piece of World History.

While I do think that Bush was manipulated by events and in a lot of ways listened to the wrong people, and I don't think that he was the smartest president in the 20th century, I don't believe that he was the thundering lunk head that people accuse him of being.

[GirlySports]

Yes Bush was led astray by Rumsfeld and Chenny. In the book I think Bush mentioned that he seriously considered replacing Chenny.

And I agree that in 2004 the people had the opportunity to vote Bush out but the Dems had a rotten candidate.

[Red Slinger]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

Yes Bush was led astray by Rumsfeld and Chenny. In the book I think Bush mentioned that he seriously considered replacing Chenny.

I haven't read his book but based on the interviews I've seen I believe that Cheney offered his resignation before the re-election but Bush refused. I think this is an example of what plagued Bush during his Presidency. He chose some very dogmatic people to serve in his adminstration and those people ultimately ended up following their dogma. Should they be blamed for being what they promised they were going to be or should Bush be blamed for choosing them to begin with? I think it's the latter moreso than the former. I think Bush was, in general, a lousy judge of character including his own.

That being said, my biggest complaint about Bush is that he seems to lack a real capacity for introspection and intellectual curiosity. It appeared, from my limited perspective, that he would (for whatever reason) come to a belief system and never question that belief system. He came off as a simpleton doing perhaps the most complicated job on the planet. Even now he describes his biggest regret as a President as Kanye West calling him a racist. It wasn't sending thousands to die in Iraq based on bad intelligence? It wasn't royally screwing up the Katrina relief efforts? It wasn't Valerie Plame? It wasn't waterboarding? No, it was that a rapper said he didn't "care about black people". He comes off as being completely out-of-touch.

And I agree that in 2004 the people had the opportunity to vote Bush out but the Dems had a rotten candidate.

Kerry didn't run a very good campaign but I fail to see what was wrong with Kerry the candidate. I'd argue he was less progressive than Obama, had more experience in both the public and private sector and was a statesman. Where Kerry failed is that he couldn't/wouldn't respond to the swift-boating. He couldn't get down-and-dirty like Rove. He wasn't dogmatic like Cheney, Rumsfeld & Wolfawitz. He was a reasonable man and a good public servant that got fleeced by the Republican dirt machine.

[Igottago]

Originally Posted by Weiser Wonder

It actually seems pretty honest from some of the quotes. Kanye West being is biggest regret (if he's lying about this then he needs to learn how to lie better). Admitting to torture (very honest). I think with GWB, what you see is what you get. He's not some brilliant political mind hiding behind plain and cumbersome rhetoric.

Its pretty pathetic that the Kanye West thing is such a huge issue. Bush takes the US into a war that ends up killing tens of thousands, doesn't find WMD's, has a controversial election, 9-11, terrorism, a recession, hurricane katrina -- yet what some drama queen pop star said on tv for 2 seconds is the biggest regret?? Really? And then the press just runs with it.

I find it pretty sad that some TMZ style celebrety moment gets more attention than the actual issues. Bush probably prefers it that way. It would actually be pretty smart of him to use the Kanye West thing to deflect the attention from his presidency -- probably too much for him to come up with the idea but I wouldn't doubt if his publicist suggested it.

[CaptainCrunch]

I don't know, the handling of Katrina was as much poor handling by federal agencies that were run by clowns. The War in Iraq was stupid, but it was more the Bush it was the CIA, it was the heads of the Joint Chiefs not having a war termination phase figured out, it was a lot of things. The economy and tax issues were presidential.

Calling a man a racist is personal and a nasty bit of character assasination. I can see why Bush would react the way he did and feel the way he did. Maybe his wording on that is unfortunate.

People can tell me that I'm doing a horrible job on a project at work, and I won't take it personally. But if any of you crackers call me racists, I'm going to react and feel in a very different way.

Besides Kanye West is a jack a%%, Bush would have done the world a favor by using his one free dissapearance on him.

[Red Slinger]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

I don't know, the handling of Katrina was as much poor handling by federal agencies that were run by clowns. The War in Iraq was stupid, but it was more the Bush it was the CIA, it was the heads of the Joint Chiefs not having a war termination phase figured out, it was a lot of things. The economy and tax issues were presidential.

There is no question that the handling of Katrina was largely FEMA's FUBAR. However, Bush didn't help himself when he essentially stayed away from New Orleans much longer than he should have, didn't send in the National Guard when both the Mayor and Governor requested it and said that "Brownie" (FEMA director) was doing a "great job". The fly by over New Orleans certainly didn't help the optics of the situation either.

Calling a man a racist is personal and a nasty bit of character assasination. I can see why Bush would react the way he did and feel the way he did. Maybe his wording on that is unfortunate.

People can tell me that I'm doing a horrible job on a project at work, and I won't take it personally. But if any of you crackers call me racists, I'm going to react and feel in a very different way.

Besides Kanye West is a jack a%%, Bush would have done the world a favor by using his one free dissapearance on him.

Yes, Kanye is a jacka$$, which makes it even worse. Why not take it personally when Keith Olbermann called him a "bold faced liar" or when some other world leaders insinuated he was a war criminal? How about all of the signs at his inauguration about him being a corrupt corporate puppet that stole the election from the people? What about the polls from the AMERICAN PEOPLE that showed he had an historically low approval rating? That means that the voters who he was supposed to be serving thought he was doing a bad job. And yet he continually says he doesn't care about polls. No, instead he chose to care about a jacka$$ rapper calling him a racist during a Katrina telethon.

The man is truly losing touch with reality and he was the most powerful person in the world. Scary. Thank Spaghetti Monster it didn't turn out worse than it did.

[CaptainCrunch]

Look, all I know is that I wouldn't want to have to be the one that fires Dick Cheney. Not only does he hunt humans, but he's had about 100 heart attacks and hasn't died.

There's some black magic mojo happening there.

[mikey_the_redneck]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

Yes Bush was led astray by Rumsfeld and Chenny. In the book I think Bush mentioned that he seriously considered replacing Chenny.

And I agree that in 2004 the people had the opportunity to vote Bush out but the Dems had a rotten candidate.

Sounds like this book is full of excuses.

A real leader would never be led astray by their subordinates....period.

P.S. It was disgusting when police went into the dry, wealthy neghborhoods in New Orleans to confiscate guns from law abiding citizens protecting their homes from looters.

[Cowperson]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Look, all I know is that I wouldn't want to have to be the one that fires Dick Cheney. Not only does he hunt humans, but he's had about 100 heart attacks and hasn't died.

There's some black magic mojo happening there.

Speaking of Cheney, who speaks of Bush today . . . .

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_1...ctionContent.5

Cowperson

[Igottago]

Originally Posted by Red Slinger

Yes, Kanye is a jacka$$, which makes it even worse. Why not take it personally when Keith Olbermann called him a "bold faced liar" or when some other world leaders insinuated he was a war criminal? How about all of the signs at his inauguration about him being a corrupt corporate puppet that stole the election from the people? What about the polls from the AMERICAN PEOPLE that showed he had an historically low approval rating? That means that the voters who he was supposed to be serving thought he was doing a bad job. And yet he continually says he doesn't care about polls. No, instead he chose to care about a jacka$$ rapper calling him a racist during a Katrina telethon.

The man is truly losing touch with reality and he was the most powerful person in the world. Scary. Thank Spaghetti Monster it didn't turn out worse than it did.

Exactly, its just such an odd thing to rank as your highest disappointment as president. And no one in the media calls him on it. They just try to find Kanye West and get his reaction -- who knows maybe there will be an Oprah special with Kanye and Bush having a candid conversation. Because really, who gives a crap about the wars, reccessions, hurricanes. Its all about some attention whore celebrity's reaction on a tv. To me its just another cherry on top of the lunacy that was the Bush presidency.

And it speaks to the pathetic nature of society right now that celebrity gossip and soundbytes override real political discussion and issues. One of the most controversial leaders of our time speaks about the implications of the decisions he made, and the discussion turns to Kanye West. The only appropriate reaction here is a facepalm.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by mikey_the_redneck

Sounds like this book is full of excuses.

A real leader would never be led astray by their subordinates....period.

P.S. It was disgusting when police went into the dry, wealthy neghborhoods in New Orleans to confiscate guns from law abiding citizens protecting their homes from looters.

I don't buy that, every leader depends on his subordinates to get him the right information, and to give him the alternatives, the leader then makes a decision based on the alternatives.

If a president just needed to make his own decisions you wouldn't need the CIA, the Joint Chiefs, the department of the treasury and the royal order of the free masons.

Even Obama has become trapped by his own beaurocracy and leans on his advisors.

Stalin, Hitler Mao and even the Kims don't make decisions without their king makers.

And on your second point, maybe the cops saved some lives by taking guns away from jittery paranoid frightened people who might not have liked the looks of that black fella there.

[mikey_the_redneck]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

I don't buy that, every leader depends on his subordinates to get him the right information, and to give him the alternatives, the leader then makes a decision based on the alternatives.

If a president just needed to make his own decisions you wouldn't need the CIA, the Joint Chiefs, the department of the treasury and the royal order of the free masons.

Even Obama has become trapped by his own beaurocracy and leans on his advisors.

Stalin, Hitler Mao and even the Kims don't make decisions without their king makers.

And on your second point, maybe the cops saved some lives by taking guns away from jittery paranoid frightened people who might not have liked the looks of that black fella there.

Meh, if a leader doesn't have a grasp on the challenges his country faces, he shouldn't be there.

I guess this is the problem with modern politics here in the west. The "leader" blazes the campaign trail with great promise but then is easily influenced and ends up serving someone elses agenda, like Wallstreet, the military industrial complex etc..

After all, they don't want to get JFK'd.

And I don't support violating the constitution under the guise of safety and some what-ifs. Not that people around here have much respect for the constitution anyways...