CNN This Morning

[Vulcan]

Originally posted by Bingo@Oct 14 2005, 05:52 PM
A bad day? I hope you didn't mean to come off as that insensitive. Over 3000 innocent people just going to work like you and I were killed that day.

Yuck.

Saddam was a wicked man that slaughtered his own people, ignored rules outlined by the UN, and was a vicious dictator in every sense of the word. Losing him as a nation's leader isn't a bad thing no matter how you look at it.

Of course it was a terrible day but the vernacular term is " having a bad day" and my point is that Saddam had nothing to do with 911, he was the scapegoat. He was a very evil ruler but that never stopped the USA from supporting him when it was convenient. They didn't care if he was a bas**rd as long as he was their bas**rd. When they couldn't control him any more it seemed convenient to put him down, just like a vicious dog. Sure I'm glad to see him gone but there have been many other bad leaders that the USA have ignored over the years as long as they cooperated with American foreign policy, which makes me and probably many others including Moslems sceptical of American motives. Bringing freedom to Iraqis is probably plan D after plan A and B and C proved inadequate. The problem with getting rid of Saddam is that he has left a political vacuum that is seemingly being replaced by even more dangerous elements.
Now if I was insensitive, I'd laugh at the American and British situation, but honestly it scares me as they havn't solved the situation in Iraq and have only provided more fuel for the extremists.

[transplant99]

* The Bush administration has been caught by the GAO repeatedly producing and placing propaganda in the media.

And that would differ from past administrations how?

* The Bush administartion were caught planting a reporter in the press pool who tossed the President softball questions

.

LOL...yes...and? Isnt there some 50 others in that room every day as well? Again, nothing new here either.

* Fox News' lead correspondent during the 2000 election, and assigned to cover Bush's every move, had his wife working in the Bush campaign at the time.

Again...so what? Was the reporters wife spoonfeeding him only? Or would she say the same thing to every reporter she talked with. Its no secret that FOX is a right wing station Lanny...no idea why you keep bringing that up.

* Fox News is run by Roger Ailes, the same one who worked for Reagan and GHW Bush. This same Ailes instructed the White House how to handle the media after the events of 9/11 and through the Iraq war, while still running Fox News.

See above.

IIRC Clinton was supported at one time, financially, by the President of CNN as well. I still dont understand how that changes what happens with actual factual news stories. If its out there, and can be corroberated (and many times even when it cant) it is still plastered on ALL news outlets.

What you fail to comprehend is that journalism is disaray in this country. There is very little journalism being done as it is too expensive for the corporations to support. The local news bureas have been obliterated and have been replaced by repitition of the national feed. Soft news is all that the local stations produce any more, and that's all they are enouraged to produce. Journalism has been run over by corporate controls and the ideal of generating profits. The Fourth Estate is on life support in America.

I agree that jornalistic standards in North America, have taken a massive step backwards from what they once were. At all levels from local to federal. I dont know how you can blame that on the government though. As you yourself say, those are CORPORATE decisions, not governmental. That whole premise of what i said earlier, still stands. The Bush administration doesnt control the media. Period.

[Hack&Lube]

Guys, you have to realize that it's the media and what you see and hear is never quite what it's supposed to be.

"A NBC News correspondent was paddling in a canoe during a live report about flooding in Wayne, N.J. While she talked, two men walked between her and the camera...making it apparent that the water where she was floating was barely ankle-deep."

[Cowperson]

Originally posted by Hack&Lube@Oct 15 2005, 02:24 PM
Guys, you have to realize that it's the media and what you see and hear is never quite what it's supposed to be.

"A NBC News correspondent was paddling in a canoe during a live report about flooding in Wayne, N.J. While she talked, two men walked between her and the camera...making it apparent that the water where she was floating was barely ankle-deep."

I happened to be watching the Today Show this a.m. when they were playing that clip - obviously a clip from the previous evening - and they were mocking their own reporter . . . . . something about the "perils of live TV." Anyway, they were getting a good laugh out of it . . . . . not exactly an expose.

Cowperson

[Vulcan]

Originally posted by Cowperson@Oct 15 2005, 03:06 PM
I happened to be watching the Today Show this a.m. when they were playing that clip - obviously a clip from the previous evening - and they were mocking their own reporter . . . . . something about the "perils of live TV." Anyway, they were getting a good laugh out of it . . . . . not exactly an expose.

Cowperson

Laugh, what else are you supposed to do when you are caught with your pants down. Sometimes I think that the WWE is more real then the news we get from our big corporate agencies. Oh well, back to the baseball game.

[Cowperson]

Originally posted by Vulcan@Oct 15 2005, 03:32 PM
Sometimes I think that the WWE is more real then the news we get from our big corporate agencies. Oh well, back to the baseball game.

Laugh, what else are you supposed to do when you are caught with your pants down.

I'm going to be disappointed if you're not aware the more common, human, reactions, particularly in the corporate world or in politics, would be to run and hide, deny it or ignore it and hope no one notices.

You'll note the Drudge Report link isn't from the original mistake, but from the TODAY show this a.m. when NBC put it up for everyone to have a laugh at.

Of course, the rest of your observation carries no bias either.

Cowperson

[Vulcan]

The point is Cow that NBC still thinks it's a joke that they got caught misleading their viewers. I agree it is better then denying or lying etc. This was a trivial story but how often do they mislead their viewers on important matters? My bias has been well earned over the years but I still like to approach any news story with an open but critical mind.

[Cowperson]

Originally posted by Vulcan@Oct 16 2005, 02:41 AM
The point is Cow that NBC still thinks it's a joke that they got caught misleading their viewers. I agree it is better then denying or lying etc.

Are you saying there isn't flooding going on in the northeast?

Somehow, I don't think NBC was going to win with you no matter what they did on this . . . . the fact they exposed themselves and had a laugh about it was the right way to go . . . and it was hilarious and certainly that reporter is going to be ribbed about it for a long time. We can agree the better way to go is not to be stupid enough to sit in a canoe in two inches of water for a serious flood story in the first place.

This was a trivial story but how often do they mislead their viewers on important matters?

If I'm not mistaken, it was MSNBC, a division of NBC, which broke the tape of the staged Bush/Troops press conference which started this thread.

As a sidenote, in the matter of media navel gazing, you might also check out the New York Times this morning for some humourous self examination as the paper comes clean on the Judith Miller affair. Sort of.

My bias has been well earned over the years but I still like to approach any news story with an open but critical mind.

You would have to go a long way to convince me of that . . . . similiar to NBC, apparently, having to go a long way to convince you of the same in their case. To each his own. . . . we all have an opinion.

Cowperson

[transplant99]

As a sidenote, in the matter of media navel gazing, you might also check out the New York Times this morning for some humourous self examination as the paper comes clean on the Judith Miller affair. Sort of

.

You mean that bastion of journalistic integrity that the left often rallies around as the one source of truth???

Actually, the whole Miller affair pales in comparison with the Jayson Blair debacle.

It just goes to show...two things...that the media is very much NOT government controlled, and that reporters gleen information from many more places than the pulpit in the White House briefing room.

[Cowperson]

Originally posted by transplant99@Oct 16 2005, 09:34 AM
.

You mean that bastion of journalistic integrity that the left often rallies around as the one source of truth???

Actually, the whole Miller affair pales in comparison with the Jayson Blair debacle.

It just goes to show...two things...that the media is very much NOT government controlled, and that reporters gleen information from many more places than the pulpit in the White House briefing room.

Well, if you want your soap opera of the day and can't catch the first episode, season one of Battlestar Galactica later this afternoon on Space . . . . then there's always the New York Times drama below:

It's a rather unusual bit of navel gazing by the Times in that they appear to really disembowel themselves over this entire thing . . . . media typically do a poor job of self-examination.

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/10/16/national...artner=homepage

Judith Miller, now taking a leave of absence from the paper, has her say:

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/10/16/national...I4j9cTMganeQzTQ

If you want the Readers Digest version, instead of the 16 pages of reading above, and a fair interpretation of the questions raised, including the conflicts between the two accounts published in the Times today, Howard Kurtz, media critic of the Washington Post and host of "Reliable Sources" on CNN, with his take:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/conte...5101501465.html

Media analysts reaction:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/conte...5101601040.html

For those interested, Kurtz on other media matters with his weekly Q&A with readers:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/conte...5100300794.html

Cowperson

[KevanGuy]

Just for fun here is a link to that canoe video. Good stuff.

http://poststuff4.entensity.net/101705/med...a=deepwater.wmv


EDIT: Make sure to open that in IE. Apparently it crashes FireFox.

[Azure]

Originally posted by Lanny_MacDonald@Oct 13 2005, 04:53 PM
No, I was just pointing it out for those arguing the bias angle. Media is biased, but no more so than the person who is watching. Depending on where you sit the media is going to have a different orientation than the next guy sees. But if you wish to observe the centerline, it has indeed shifted and has gone further to the right, giving the impression that the established media was left leaning, which it was not.

Well you and me both know that there are idiots out there that believe everything TV, internet and the media tells them.

Like Denzal Washington said in Training Day, "90% of it is bullshinguard."

[Vulcan]

Originally posted by Cowperson@Oct 16 2005, 08:04 AM
Are you saying there isn't flooding going on in the northeast?

Somehow, I don't think NBC was going to win with you no matter what they did on this . . . . the fact they exposed themselves and had a laugh about it was the right way to go . . . and it was hilarious and certainly that reporter is going to be ribbed about it for a long time. We can agree the better way to go is not to be stupid enough to sit in a canoe in two inches of water for a serious flood story in the first place.

This was a trivial story but how often do they mislead their viewers on important matters?

If I'm not mistaken, it was MSNBC, a division of NBC, which broke the tape of the staged Bush/Troops press conference which started this thread.

As a sidenote, in the matter of media navel gazing, you might also check out the New York Times this morning for some humourous self examination as the paper comes clean on the Judith Miller affair. Sort of.

My bias has been well earned over the years but I still like to approach any news story with an open but critical mind.

You would have to go a long way to convince me of that . . . . similiar to NBC, apparently, having to go a long way to convince you of the same in their case. To each his own. . . . we all have an opinion.

Cowperson

No, I'm talking about the phony canoe story of course.

NBC or any other news source will never win with me when they fake the news. You seem to be much more accepting though.

From what I can understand the Judith Millar affair stems from her stepping in line with most of American media in promoting the myth of Weapons of Mass Destruction in Iraq and thus aiding Bush in creating the hysteria against Saddam. Their were many reports, especially from the UN that their were no WoMD and the outing of the CIA operative was in revenge for her husband's report that there was no attempt by Saddam to gain nuclear materials in Africa. On the whole I would call this mess a huge black eye on the American press which misled the American people either through knowingly lying or incompetence. Take you pick.

[Cowperson]

Originally posted by Vulcan@Oct 17 2005, 09:59 PM
No, I'm talking about the phony canoe story of course.

NBC or any other news source will never win with me when they fake the news. You seem to be much more accepting though.

From what I can understand the Judith Millar affair stems from her stepping in line with most of American media in promoting the myth of Weapons of Mass Destruction in Iraq and thus aiding Bush in creating the hysteria against Saddam. Their were many reports, especially from the UN that their were no WoMD and the outing of the CIA operative was in revenge for her husband's report that there was no attempt by Saddam to gain nuclear materials in Africa. On the whole I would call this mess a huge black eye on the American press which misled the American people either through knowingly lying or incompetence. Take you pick.

You know . . . . if we start, we're not going to stop and I'm sure we both have better things to do considering this would only be the 25th time this inconclusive merry-go-round has happened on this board.

I'll just say that the sad thing I've noticed about the far left AND the far right is that they are singularly humourless and apparently perpetually angry. I laugh when you're frowning. That's sad. Read the link at the bottom of this post.

Well you and me both know that there are idiots out there that believe everything TV, internet and the media tells them.

And we both know there are still idiots out there who think their news filters, Noam Chomsky and Ann Coulter, are different people.

Here's something for you:

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/10/06/...ain917324.shtml

Cowperson

[Azure]

Originally posted by Cowperson@Oct 18 2005, 10:13 AM
Well you and me both know that there are idiots out there that believe everything TV, internet and the media tells them.

And we both know there are still idiots out there who think their news filters, Noam Chomsky and Ann Coulter, are different people.

Here's something for you:

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/10/06/...ain917324.shtml

Cowperson

Those two would also be included in the whole idea of TV, internet and media.

One more thing, the US Media has certainly been critical of the war effort in Iraq, so much so that the achievements of the soldier are being overshadowed by everything else.

[transplant99]

terrific article there Cow...thanks for posting it.