France bans the burqa

[Canuck-Hater]

Im sure you would all be saying the same thing if Yamakas/wearing crosses were banned

[Drury18]

Originally Posted by T@T

Good. I hope canada follows and starts the ban of ceremonial swords and other stupid religious items...

I hope your list includes the Bible, Crosses/Crucifixes, Kippahs, Yarmulkes and Rosaries. If you ban one religous item, you need to ban them all.

It's sickening how many people (not directed at the OP, I'm using people in the general sense) are quick to want religious items of a Eastern Culture banned, but don't see their own religious items which are openly on display as being stupid to people, even those of their own country.

I'm an atheist, I don't want to see your damn religious symbol here or anywhere and its not dependant on which deity you choose to worship or what country you were born in.

[burn_this_city]

Anyone find this slightly facist?? First the Roma now the Muslims.

[IliketoPuck]

Theres a difference between a ninja hood and a cross

vs. + ?

Just a joke people.....don't go nuts on it.

[DuffMan]

If my wife and I visited a burqa wearing prone country, and my wife wanted to walk around in public, in a bikini, what would happen? My guess is they are not very tolerant on that sort of thing, and she would be arrested and stoned to death within a minute.

So they go to France, and France says, no wearing burqa's, as we don't want people covering their identities, and they would have a problem accepting that because, why?

[Hack&Lube]

Well there's a backdoor method to discourage immigration.

[IliketoPuck]

Originally Posted by Hack&Lube

Well there's a backdoor method to discourage immigration.

There's one to discourage pregnancy too.

[3 Justin 3]

Originally Posted by DuffMan

well, let them do what they want in their own country.

Oh noes, they are wearing a head scarf in the mall. All hell is going to break loose. Seriously.

My only problem was when the Indian guys wanted their turban apart of the RCMP uniform.

[SeeBass]

Many who oppose the burqa do so because they see it as an oppressive item of clothing which symbolises and reinforces the inferior social status of women. For them it represents an assault on the dignity and equality of women, a regard for them as property, and a concern for them that they be sexually controlled and limited. Despite such negative views an inner twinge of apprehension can rise up at the thought of legislatively outlawing its being worn. Self-consciously we may ask ourselves: to where will this road lead us? Is it not a mark of intolerance to impose the values of the majority over a minority, and in this case a culturally insensitive form of intolerance as well? We don’t want to begin telling people what they can and can’t wear, do we? The fact is though that this is already quite commonly done, but in the inverse: many western countries have laws against public nudity in areas outside of those which are specially set aside for it; you can’t just walk around naked in public wherever and whenever you would like to, though you are entitled to be as naked as you please in the privacy of your own home.

[Addick]

Originally Posted by kipperfan

Problem is, when we let "Muslims be Muslim" we aren't giving Muslim women a chance to even be people! I am of the opinion that in progressive democratic societies (such as France, Canada, etc.) we have a responsibility to stand up for all of our citizens, despite what "god" they may pray to.

What is the best way to achieve this change? What is a better method, convincing the parties to change or forcing them to?

Originally Posted by DuffMan

If my wife and I visited a burqa wearing prone country, and my wife wanted to walk around in public, in a bikini, what would happen? My guess is they are not very tolerant on that sort of thing, and she would be arrested and stoned to death within a minute.

So they go to France, and France says, no wearing burqa's, as we don't want people covering their identities, and they would have a problem accepting that because, why?

Bollocks!

The Middle Eastern countries you are referring to our Muslim countries while Canada and France are secular nations. As such, in the latter the laws are not, and should not be, made according to religions beliefs. Furthermore, if it is an identity problem you are trying to eliminate should we not ban youths from wearing hoodies and ball caps?

[Hack&Lube]

Originally Posted by Addick

Bollocks!

The Middle Eastern countries you are referring to our Muslim countries while Canada and France are secular nations. As such, in the latter the laws are not, and should not be, made according to religions beliefs. Furthermore, if it is an identity problem you are trying to eliminate should we not ban youths from wearing hoodies and ball caps?

And so some states are permitted to practice their draconian laws just because they are theocracies while secular ones are not in order to protect their cultural identity and security?

[Thor]

The tensions and massive problems faced by the 'slums' where you find mostly muslim immigrants is where all this frustration and anger from the French.

The Muslims are starting to grow substantially in numbers in a number of European countries and many people are starting to resent how immigrants such as the very visible muslims are not doing much to integrate into their society and in fact are often protesting in their new home nations to hold onto their particular religious traditions.

Europe is very liberal and a great deal of people were all supportive of immigrants holding onto their traditions and what not, but even those wimpy liberal s are now frustrated and want to draw a line in the sand.

Like has been said here already, if Europeans were the ones migrating to Islamic nations do you think the women would be allowed to wear revealing clothing in many nations of Islam? Hell no.

Good job France, way to stand up for your culture, now we need more EU nations to follow suit, damn liberal wimps!

[Hanni]

Originally Posted by SeeBass

you can’t just walk around naked in public wherever and whenever you would like to, though you are entitled to be as naked as you please in the privacy of your own home.

Muslims should be able to wear whatever they want in their own homes or places of worship. But when we have muslim women getting drivers licenses or getting on airplanes without seeing their faces we have a much bigger issue. Yes they should be checked at the airport, but when a security guard has an angry husband yelling at him for being racist what is he going to do?

It has yet to happen in Canada but there instances of men dressed in burqa's and getting on planes in secret. Or men or women hiding explosives under them and blowing themselves up.

The security of the majority should outweigh all else.

[Antithesis]

Originally Posted by kipperfan

Problem is, when we let "Muslims be Muslim" we aren't giving Muslim women a chance to even be people! I am of the opinion that in progressive democratic societies (such as France, Canada, etc.) we have a responsibility to stand up for all of our citizens, despite what "god" they may pray to.

These people want to be "Muslim" and degradate the rights of 50% of society? No problem, they can head back to Afghanistan or whatever 3rd world hell hole they crawled out of anytime they'd like.

What many people seem to not notice is that they are making huge, sweeping, blanket generalizations of a very large group of people based on the actions of a very small minority of them.

In my time as a teacher, I have probably taught/spent time with hundreds of Muslims. Not a single one was covered with a burqa. That's a pretty decent sample size. I would say approximately half, if not fewer, of the Muslim girls I taught were wearing the head scarves, and they were certainly all above the age where it would be deemed appropriate.

Before I get painted as some kind of religious fanatic/anti-atheist, I would love to highlight that I agree with the burqa ban, but to characterize the entire group of Muslim people as being willfully degrading to half of their population is a pretty big (and pretty ugly, if you ask me) generalization.

Don't mean to come off as 'on the attack', but there seems to be a lot of misinformation/misunderstanding in this thread on the issue of hijab/burqa.

[burn_this_city]

Originally Posted by Hack&Lube

And so some states are permitted to practice their draconian laws just because they are theocracies while secular ones are not in order to protect their cultural identity and security?

Theocracies typically arent founded on ideals of freedom and liberty for all.

[Ashartus]

I think banning the burka is just treating a symptom rather than the underlying cause of the problems facing France. The real problem is immigrants coming into the country with no real prospects, ending up in slums or lower-class neighbourhoods where they are surrounded by others from similar backgrounds, and effectively bringing their old society to a new country. The only way the problems are likely to be solved (in my opinion) is by integrating immigrant groups into society, but that would mean having them live, go to school, and work alongside the existing population rather than in racial enclaves. Unfortunately not something that can be solved by passing a simple law.

[nik-]

Originally Posted by Ashartus

I think banning the burka is just treating a symptom rather than the underlying cause of the problems facing France. The real problem is immigrants coming into the country with no real prospects, ending up in slums or lower-class neighbourhoods where they are surrounded by others from similar backgrounds, and effectively bringing their old society to a new country. The only way the problems are likely to be solved (in my opinion) is by integrating immigrant groups into society, but that would mean having them live, go to school, and work alongside the existing population rather than in racial enclaves. Unfortunately not something that can be solved by passing a simple law.

Naw, the same thing happens in Canada and the US. People live where they will be most comfortable and it naturally draws immigrant communities together. When you're surrounded by old customs it's easier to maintain them rather than adapt to new ones.

[Igottago]

Originally Posted by 3 Justin 3

Oh noes, they are wearing a head scarf in the mall. All hell is going to break loose. Seriously.

My only problem was when the Indian guys wanted their turban apart of the RCMP uniform.

Why? What was wrong with that?

[Hack&Lube]

Originally Posted by burn_this_city

Theocracies typically arent founded on ideals of freedom and liberty for all.

Liberté, Equalité, Fraternité

It's not for all, it's for your fellow frog eating brothers and not your burqa wearing sisters.

I agree with this law, in addition to the ones some European countries have put in place to ban minarets in their cities.

[burn_this_city]

Originally Posted by Hack&Lube

Liberté, Equalité, Fraternité

It's not for all, it's for your fellow frog eating brothers and not your burqa wearing sisters.

I agree with this law, in addition to the ones some European countries have put in place to ban minarets in their cities.

Whats the justification for no minarets?? I have yet to hear a rational argument on that one.