Girl Attacked in Calgary Schoolyard or Kids will be Kids?

[AC]

Originally Posted by flameswin

Hmm, I went there, too. Do you happen to be the brother of a Cook that graduated in '03?

Yep. One graduated in '03, the other in '02 (I think).

[photon]

Originally Posted by Mad Mel

Fair enough, man. I confess that this topic does make me emotional, and because I see absolutely zero excuse for what happened, it psses me off to see any kind of passing any of the blame beyond where I think think it belongs... on the rapist.

Of course, I don't think it's right and I don't think there's any excuse for it either.

But we're not talking about excuses (which means someone is excused from responsibility), we're talking about different factors that would contribute to the event, because it's not a simple thing.

It might not matter to you if they're 16 or 60, but maybe it should matter... at 12 or 16 the brain isn't done developing yet, how can a 12 or 16 year old be expected to make the exact same decisions as someone with a fully developed brain? I don't think they should, that's why we have more support and supervision for kids as they grow and learn.

http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releas...-abb060310.php

There's a middle ground between "string them up by their balls" and "absolved of all responsibility".

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by AC

Yep. One graduated in '03, the other in '02 (I think).

Nice. Small world. Well, I guess not really, considering it's a Calgary message board with lots of users in their 20's.

[Iowa_Flames_Fan]

Originally Posted by photon

Of course, I don't think it's right and I don't think there's any excuse for it either.

But we're not talking about excuses (which means someone is excused from responsibility), we're talking about different factors that would contribute to the event, because it's not a simple thing.

It might not matter to you if they're 16 or 60, but maybe it should matter... at 12 or 16 the brain isn't done developing yet, how can a 12 or 16 year old be expected to make the exact same decisions as someone with a fully developed brain? I don't think they should, that's why we have more support and supervision for kids as they grow and learn.

http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releas...-abb060310.php

There's a middle ground between "string them up by their balls" and "absolved of all responsibility".

I completely agree with that. In this case, both parties are children, and I'm glad we have a justice system that takes that into account. The last thing this boy needs is for a justice system to pretend he is an adult. He isn't--he's still a child too.

[AC]

Originally Posted by flameswin

Nice. Small world. Well, I guess not really, considering it's a Calgary message board with lots of users in their 20's.

Yeah pretty much. I know a few other people that I went to school with that post here.

Hell, one of the posters that came out for my ball hockey is dating the sister of a friend I've had since elementary.

[Mad Mel]

Originally Posted by photon

There's a middle ground between "string them up by their balls" and "absolved of all responsibility".

I entirely agree with the idea that teens take on risky behaviour; god knows I did. That said, my mother has been a guard at a Canadian maximum security young offenders facility for close to 30 years and I'm well aware of what 16 year old criminals are like. There is middle ground, but in many cases, that middle ground is far too soft and spongy. Sometimes leniency in the hope of someone growing up and out of it is appropriate; most times it's a pipe dream. It would be nice if our justice system didn't hide whether this is a first offence for the boy.

[Mean Mr. Mustard]

Originally Posted by FireFly

I never said puberty was the issue, YOU are the one who said a 12 year old is a child in a child's body. WRONG. a 12 year old is often a child in a young adult's body.

I think it's laughable that you all seem to think there is a magical age where young women are no longer children. Do you think at 14 it's okay? I have known 14 year olds who are less mature than some 12 year olds. Puberty isn't the issue at all, it's the person's mental maturity that matters IMO.

Technically speaking, a 12 year old is a 12 year old in a 12 year olds body and I don't care how old she may think she is she is still a 12 year old and that is a child. She can think she is a young adult all she wants but she is still a child and as this creep isn't a child, he is a young adult, he needed to respect that. He obviously didn't and now he is going to pay the price. I don't care what type of sexed up kid you were - a 12 year old should not be having sexual relations with anyone in my opinion, not only the consequences psychologically but physically are revolting.

You are right there isn't a line that one can draw in the sand to say something is morally wrong (although I believe that this is) but from a legal standpoint it is a very easy and definitive answer - what he did was illegal regardless as to morality.

[FireFly]

Originally Posted by Mean Mr. Mustard

Technically speaking, a 12 year old is a 12 year old in a 12 year olds body and I don't care how old she may think she is she is still a 12 year old and that is a child. She can think she is a young adult all she wants but she is still a child and as this creep isn't a child, he is a young adult, he needed to respect that. He obviously didn't and now he is going to pay the price. I don't care what type of sexed up kid you were - a 12 year old should not be having sexual relations with anyone in my opinion, not only the consequences psychologically but physically are revolting.

Wel that's a bit personal don't you think? Not to mention wholely inaccurate.

Anyways, I love how everyone is roasting the boy in the situation, but frankly, the 'little girl' (since everyone seems to believe she is,) just ruined his life and perhaps on purpose.

[Mean Mr. Mustard]

Originally Posted by FireFly

Wel that's a bit personal don't you think? Not to mention wholely inaccurate.

Anyways, I love how everyone is roasting the boy in the situation, but frankly, the 'little girl' (since everyone seems to believe she is,) just ruined his life and perhaps on purpose.

Now who is making assumptions. You are saying that she is a twelve ear old two bit floozy who intentionally used her powers of manipulation to seduce a 16 year old into having sex with her in public in front of all of his friends. In that case all he would have to do is say no. Simple as that.

If it is personal you have to forgive me but posts like this one may give people the wrong impression about your childhood.

Originally Posted by FireFly

My point was referencing the 'she has the body of a child' comment. I agree she is still a child, but I was also a 12 year old girl once and I can assure you, 12 year old girls think about boys and sex. At that age, body and brain are not always on the same wave-length.

[FireFly]

Originally Posted by Mean Mr. Mustard

Now who is making assumptions. You are saying that she is a twelve ear old two bit floozy who intentionally used her powers of manipulation to seduce a 16 year old into having sex with her in public in front of all of his friends. In that case all he would have to do is say no. Simple as that.

If it is personal you have to forgive me but posts like this one may give people the wrong impression about your childhood.

Well I said perhaps on purpose. I also didn't say seduce or call her a floozy, those were your own wonderful embellishments.

And I said 12 year old girls THINK about boys and sex. I didn't say they act on them and I certainly didn't say I acted on them. In fact I believe I said that I DIDN'T, but your super quote skills edited that part out.

I don't know what your problem with me is, but you really need to get over it. You're putting words in my mouth and inferring that I was the 12 year old floozy. Seriously?

[Dion]

[Mean Mr. Mustard]

And when I said sexed up I didn't state that you were having sex, I was merely attempting to imply that you were having sexual thoughts at the age, similar to the young female in question. I apologize if I was not more clear in my post.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by Dion

That's a good idea, I'm going to put on some microwave popcorn.

[FireFly]

Originally Posted by Mean Mr. Mustard

And when I said sexed up I didn't state that you were having sex, I was merely attempting to imply that you were having sexual thoughts at the age, similar to the young female in question. I apologize if I was not more clear in my post.

Oh, your post was pretty clear. I've never met a 'sexed up' person that wasn't actually having sex. There was nothing implied about calling me a sexed up 12 year old.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by flameswin

That's a good idea, I'm going to put on some microwave popcorn.

Don't forget the cold beer to go with it

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by Mean Mr. Mustard

Technically speaking, a 12 year old is a 12 year old in a 12 year olds body and I don't care how old she may think she is she is still a 12 year old and that is a child.

That's quite the black and white world you live in there. The fact is, 12 year olds can be sexually mature (I'm talking physiologically). Are they mentally? I highly doubt it, although I'm sure historically it's not that young of an age to lose your v-card.

I also doubt many people are 100% mature (physically and emotionally) when they first have sex. I didn't bother looking about the average age, but most people I know were teens.

Originally Posted by Mean Mr. Mustard

She can think she is a young adult all she wants but she is still a child and as this creep isn't a child, he is a young adult, he needed to respect that. He obviously didn't and now he is going to pay the price. I don't care what type of sexed up kid you were - a 12 year old should not be having sexual relations with anyone in my opinion, not only the consequences psychologically but physically are revolting.

Of course he's a child. Even by law he's a child. He can't vote, drink, live on his own, is a dependant, etc. An adult is over 18. Therefore, people that are say 18-21 are young adults. A 16 year old is a child.

You seem to be up in arms as though a 40 year old dude raped a 5 year old. For all we know, this was a consenting relationship between to sexually mature (physically!) people. Of course she's a kid, but so is he.

[Mean Mr. Mustard]

Originally Posted by FireFly

Oh, your post was pretty clear. I've never met a 'sexed up' person that wasn't actually having sex. There was nothing implied about calling me a sexed up 12 year old.

Read into it what you want to read into it. It isn't what I meant, I apologized once already, because I consider myself a good person I will apologize again if you feel offended, it wasn't my intention. But that is the end of that from my standpoint.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by Dion

Don't forget the cold beer to go with it

I never do.

[Mean Mr. Mustard]

Originally Posted by Sliver

That's quite the black and white world you live in there. The fact is, 12 year olds can be sexually mature (I'm talking physiologically). Are they mentally? I highly doubt it, although I'm sure historically it's not that young of an age to lose your v-card.

I also doubt many people are 100% mature (physically and emotionally) when they first have sex. I didn't bother looking about the average age, but most people I know were teens.



Of course he's a child. Even by law he's a child. He can't vote, drink, live on his own, is a dependant, etc. An adult is over 18. Therefore, people that are say 18-21 are young adults. A 16 year old is a child.

You seem to be up in arms as though a 40 year old dude raped a 5 year old. For all we know, this was a consenting relationship between to sexually mature (physically!) people. Of course she's a kid, but so is he.

Would adolescent be a better term then? Because I don't consider someone who is old enough to join the army (reserves) and has the expectations of a 16 year old to be put into the same category as someone who for all we know could be in grade 6. I mean if he was 17, he would still legally be a child, would that make it acceptable? What if she was 11?

Sorry I don't believe that someone who is 12 years old can be sexually mature and in the off chance that there is someone who could be considered psychologically sexually mature I think that there is something wrong with that from a societal standpoint.

16 year olds shouldn't be having sex with 12 year olds regardless as to implied maturity.

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by Mean Mr. Mustard

Would adolescent be a better term then? Because I don't consider someone who is old enough to join the army (reserves) and has the expectations of a 16 year old to be put into the same category as someone who for all we know could be in grade 6. I mean if he was 17, he would still legally be a child, would that make it acceptable? What if she was 11?

Sorry I don't believe that someone who is 12 years old can be sexually mature and in the off chance that there is someone who could be considered psychologically sexually mature I think that there is something wrong with that from a societal standpoint.

16 year olds shouldn't be having sex with 12 year olds regardless as to implied maturity.

Obviously not. Seriously, can we all just agree that 16 year olds shouldn't be having sex with 12 year olds as a general rule. Would you be satisfied that nobody is arguing that if we had a poll? What do you expect the results would be? A 50/50 split? Of course not, it would be 100% against 16 year olds having sex with 12 year olds and 0% for it. We are discussing the finer details of the issue at this point.

My point is a 12 year old's body may actually be ready for sex. Saying she was raped implies a visousness that was not here, and aims to bias everybody against the 16 year old unfairly.

Also calling him a young adult and her a child implies her body was not ready for sex and he violated her and her innocence. Nothing I've read on the story suggests this is true. First of all - and this is an objective fact - neither people are adults. They are both kids. You calling him and adult is deliberately misleading. He is older and yes that's relevant, but saying a young adult raped a child sounds 100x worse than what actually happened IMO.