Girl Attacked in Calgary Schoolyard or Kids will be Kids?

[bcb]

Originally Posted by peter12

So longsuffering and I agree? Society really IS collapsing.

Yes, and based on this incident, it's time to ignore the statistics about crime.
Listen to Rick Hanson and the cops. Crime is going Up! Up! Up!

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by peter12

That's revolting.

We don't even know how old the girl was that sucked vlad off in the tent so don't be revolted yet. Maybe she was 18 for all we know. That would still make it naughty, but in a kind of awesome way.

[Nehkara]

At that age it really depends on the kid. I knew several kids in school who were not virgins by the time they hit 13 years old. LOTS more who weren't by the time they were 14.

The way this 12 year old girl went about messing around with a boy is certainly unorthodox and the age difference too great but it doesn't surprise me that she did it.

As for the guy, you are ruled by your hormones at that age. A girl, any girl, who looks half decent wants to meet up with you in the park and mess around, you are THERE! Not saying it was right or okay, just that it is understandable.'

For those of you with kids around this age, the fact of the matter is that pretty soon they will become interested in the opposite sex and once they do this kind of thing may happen. Just the facts of life.

[Mean Mr. Mustard]

Hormones is a horrible excuse as while you may be horny and all (every guy has been there) that shouldn't impact your higher cognitive functions to such a degree that someone would think that it would be alright to have sex with someone who was 12 years old. What is even worse is that no one had the presence of mind to say, dude what the hell are you thinking?

Out of the X number of people that were there, either no one thought that it was a stupid thing to do or no one had the courage to stand up and say anything, either way it is a sad state of affairs.

At 16 you are closer to being an adult than a kid at 12 it is the other way around.

[shermanator]

Originally Posted by MrMastodonFarm

From what I read in the Herald this morning they are reviewing the chat logs to determine what they talked about. I think it's entirely possible the girl lied about her age. The site in question where they "meet" has a minimum age of 13, so the possibility of deception on the girls part is high.

If this part of the case is in fact true, then I think the girl involved has a MUCH higher degree of responsibility for this incident, and should share in the blame IMO. Say she lied on the site and said she was 14, then the boy involved thinks this is perfectly legal consensual sex (even though he was most likely not worried about this and just thinking with his penis)

What information the two parties told each other online is not known, so it's hard to judge yet. The facts say she's 12, so the act is still illegal at this point, and the boy involved will pay for his actions as a result, which he should.

And one more thing. If you're going to have sex in public, FFS be sneaky about it. Don't have sex under bleachers in the midde of the day with your friends watching.

[Nehkara]

Originally Posted by Mean Mr. Mustard

Hormones is a horrible excuse as while you may be horny and all (every guy has been there) that shouldn't impact your higher cognitive functions to such a degree that someone would think that it would be alright to have sex with someone who was 12 years old. What is even worse is that no one had the presence of mind to say, dude what the hell are you thinking?

Out of the X number of people that were there, either no one thought that it was a stupid thing to do or no one had the courage to stand up and say anything, either way it is a sad state of affairs.

At 16 you are closer to being an adult than a kid at 12 it is the other way around.

He is fully responsible and should be. However, he was drunk and horny and that is not conducive to making good choices. The other kids should have stopped them but apparently they were drunk too, as was the 12 year old girl.

What a mess.

I will say that I hope he doesn't get a harsh sentence, this situation does not seem to warrant it.

[photon]

Originally Posted by Mean Mr. Mustard

Hormones is a horrible excuse as while you may be horny and all (every guy has been there) that shouldn't impact your higher cognitive functions to such a degree that someone would think that it would be alright to have sex with someone who was 12 years old.

Why shouldn't it impact their higher cognitive functions to that degree? There's enough research out there to show that kids' ability to make good choices IS still incomplete, at a brain level. Add in alcohol and how much worse will that be?

Not saying there shouldn't be consequences but when in the learning part of life there has to be some consideration given to the fact that the brain isn't even fully developed yet at that age.

[ynwa03]

I've read the whole thread now and find it strange how only one or two people have mentioned alcohol use. Honestly, this is something that needs to be addressed. It starts with proper parenting, hanging out with the right people who will not buy a 12/16 year old booze etc. etc.....how many people in here think this incident would have happened if there was no alcohol involved? I won't even get into how messed up it is to hear 12-16 year olds intoxicated on a school playground, but it seems like common sense that this type of behaviour can easily be brought out by alcohol in adults (maybe not to this extreme) who have more self-control compared to 12 and 16 year olds. My point is, at that age kids have all sort of chemicals firing in their bodies urging them to do things and alcohol is something that severely limits a persons ability to make rational decisions and should be looked at as a serious concern in this case.

Having said that, i agree that in no way can a 12 year old consent to having sex. While it lessens the boys responsibility slightly if the girl lied about her age, he still was intoxicated and performing sexual acts in public, in front of others, in a SCHOOL field. That is inexcusable, and no amount of dishonest information from the girl should reduce the blame that should be put on him.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Nehkara

He is fully responsible and should be. However, he was drunk and horny and that is not conducive to making good choices. The other kids should have stopped them but apparently they were drunk too, as was the 12 year old girl.

What a mess.

I will say that I hope he doesn't get a harsh sentence, this situation does not seem to warrant it.

If Drunk and horny is an excuse for basically molesting a preteen then maybe its someone that should be removed from society for a while.

Geez your honor I'm sorry that I raped my neighbour but I had had a couple of beers and had a raging boner and she looked so damn good in those stretchy lime green stretch pants that she bought from Walmart.

The girl was 12 years old, they're incapable of making a good decision, this kid was 16, and he had friends there, its seems a little predatory to me.

[getbak]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Geez your honor I'm sorry that I raped my neighbour but I had had a couple of beers and had a raging boner and she looked so damn good in those stretchy lime green stretch pants that she bought from Walmart.

Replace beer with prescription drugs, and you have the Eric Tillman defence.

[Nehkara]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

If Drunk and horny is an excuse for basically molesting a preteen then maybe its someone that should be removed from society for a while.

Geez your honor I'm sorry that I raped my neighbour but I had had a couple of beers and had a raging boner and she looked so damn good in those stretchy lime green stretch pants that she bought from Walmart.

The girl was 12 years old, they're incapable of making a good decision, this kid was 16, and he had friends there, its seems a little predatory to me.

Look, the kid should be punished and he is obviously responsible for the incident.

If he had actually raped the girl I might feel the same way you do but, 12 years old or not, it sounds like she was a willing participant.

I realize that a 12 year old cannot consent and that is why he should be punished but that doesn't mean what he did was the same as violently raping her.

[Mean Mr. Mustard]

Just because someone is drinking doesn't mean that they are not responsible for their actions and in this case their actions are pretty sick regardless as to implied concent. It is a 12 year old girl, how developed can she really be to look appealing to a 16 year old. And by that same token what type of parenting is going on with everyone where this is seen as acceptable behaviour. It just reeks of a lot of the shallow end of the gene puddle.

[Nehkara]

Originally Posted by Mean Mr. Mustard

Just because someone is drinking doesn't mean that they are not responsible for their actions and in this case their actions are pretty sick regardless as to implied concent. It is a 12 year old girl, how developed can she really be to look appealing to a 16 year old. And by that same token what type of parenting is going on with everyone where this is seen as acceptable behaviour. It just reeks of a lot of the shallow end of the gene puddle.

Definitely some questionable parenting involved. Between the alcohol and the fact that a 16 year old and 12 year old met over Facebook and then managed to actually carry out their rendezvous with seemingly none of the parents becoming aware of any of this seems to stink of uninterested parenting.

[Iowa_Flames_Fan]

Originally Posted by Nehkara

Look, the kid should be punished and he is obviously responsible for the incident.

If he had actually raped the girl I might feel the same way you do but, 12 years old or not, it sounds like she was a willing participant.

I realize that a 12 year old cannot consent and that is why he should be punished but that doesn't mean what he did was the same as violently raping her.

This bears repeating: He did rape her. At 12 years old, she can't give consent. If they have sex, it's rape.

I'm not going to wring my hands over the Young Offenders' Act. Both parties in this situation are children, and I think a 16 year old is pretty close to being a child. There is, however, a huge physical difference between a 16-year old and a 12-year old--and that's what disturbs me here. Obviously the 12-year old should not have been meeting up with older boys on the internet, if that's indeed what happened. But a 16-year old boy who wants to have sex with a 12-year old is in need of some serious help. A justice system that just threw the book at him would just be compounding the tragedy. He needs help--and serious help--not a life sentence.

And yes, I'll echo what others have said: 12 is indeed THAT young. A 16 year old is a teenager, in the midst of puberty, and growing into an adult body. A 12 year old is a child, in a child's body.

[FireFly]

Originally Posted by Iowa_Flames_Fan

And yes, I'll echo what others have said: 12 is indeed THAT young. A 16 year old is a teenager, in the midst of puberty, and growing into an adult body. A 12 year old is a child, in a child's body.

Not sure what world you live in, but MANY women go through puberty at or before 12. In a lot of cases they are children only mentally and have the 'urges' that go along with having a woman's body.

[Nehkara]

Originally Posted by Iowa_Flames_Fan

This bears repeating: He did rape her. At 12 years old, she can't give consent. If they have sex, it's rape.

I'm not going to wring my hands over the Young Offenders' Act. Both parties in this situation are children, and I think a 16 year old is pretty close to being a child. There is, however, a huge physical difference between a 16-year old and a 12-year old--and that's what disturbs me here. Obviously the 12-year old should not have been meeting up with older boys on the internet, if that's indeed what happened. But a 16-year old boy who wants to have sex with a 12-year old is in need of some serious help. A justice system that just threw the book at him would just be compounding the tragedy. He needs help--and serious help--not a life sentence.

And yes, I'll echo what others have said: 12 is indeed THAT young. A 16 year old is a teenager, in the midst of puberty, and growing into an adult body. A 12 year old is a child, in a child's body.

You are correct. However, I guess it is just me but I think there IS a distinction between a violent unwanted rape and willing statutory rape.

Would you not be a lot more enraged if this had been an attack by a 16 year old on a 12 year old as opposed to an arranged meeting where he committed statutory rape?

In terms of body development, I know a 12 year old boy who is 5'10" and is often mistaken for a 15 or 16 year old. It all depends on the 12 year old.

I agree with you that it is strange behaviour for a 16 year old nonetheless and he should get some help, but not a long term because I don't think this particular incident warrants it.

[The Yen Man]

Originally Posted by Mean Mr. Mustard

Just because someone is drinking doesn't mean that they are not responsible for their actions and in this case their actions are pretty sick regardless as to implied concent. It is a 12 year old girl, how developed can she really be to look appealing to a 16 year old. And by that same token what type of parenting is going on with everyone where this is seen as acceptable behaviour. It just reeks of a lot of the shallow end of the gene puddle.

Nobody is saying he should not be responsible. People are just saying if it was indeed consentual, then the girl bears some responsibility of it as well. The fact of the matter is, girls hit puberty around 11 or 12, and boys at 14-16. Should the 16 year old be punished? Absolutely. But in my eyes that girl and her parents take some of the blame for the situation as well.

[Mean Mr. Mustard]

Originally Posted by FireFly

Not sure what world you live in, but MANY women go through puberty at or before 12. In a lot of cases they are children only mentally and have the 'urges' that go along with having a woman's body.

I don't care what her urges were, she is a child. She should be treated like a child and she should have been treated like a child long before this in the sense that, 1) she should never have a facebook account and have the ability to be unsupervised on the internet so her parents obviously let her have too much free reign, 2) any guy that would have sex with someone who was 12 obviously didn't treat her as someone should treat a child... how developed can someone be at the age of 12... 3) I strongly believe a lot of the urges you speak of are based on the beliefs of society and not a biological urge to get stuffed in a park by a 16 year old who has been drinking... plus if she had been drinking that makes the situation way worse.

Originally Posted by The Yen Man

Nobody is saying he should not be responsible. People are just saying if it was indeed consentual, then the girl bears some responsibility of it as well. The fact of the matter is, girls hit puberty around 11 or 12, and boys at 14-16. Should the 16 year old be punished? Absolutely. But in my eyes that girl and her parents take some of the blame for the situation as well.

I blame the parents for sure, because they obviously didn't care enough about their kid in the first place. Frankly no child (and she is a child) should have access to an unfiltered internet without supervision. I would bet she was a latchkey kid whole parents both worked and let the internet, the x-box and the tv do the work for them. Unfortunatly those lead to the youth getting messages about what is considered appropriate behaviour which is the super-sexing of our society.

[FireFly]

Originally Posted by Mean Mr. Mustard

I don't care what her urges were, she is a child. She should be treated like a child and she should have been treated like a child long before this in the sense that, 1) she should never have a facebook account and have the ability to be unsupervised on the internet so her parents obviously let her have too much free reign, 2) any guy that would have sex with someone who was 12 obviously didn't treat her as someone should treat a child... how developed can someone be at the age of 12... 3) I strongly believe a lot of the urges you speak of are based on the beliefs of society and not a biological urge to get stuffed in a park by a 16 year old who has been drinking... plus if she had been drinking that makes the situation way worse.

My point was referencing the 'she has the body of a child' comment. I agree she is still a child, but I was also a 12 year old girl once and I can assure you, 12 year old girls think about boys and sex. At that age, body and brain are not always on the same wave-length.

I blame the parents for sure, because they obviously didn't care enough about their kid in the first place. Frankly no child (and she is a child) should have access to an unfiltered internet without supervision. I would bet she was a latchkey kid whole parents both worked and let the internet, the x-box and the tv do the work for them. Unfortunatly those lead to the youth getting messages about what is considered appropriate behaviour which is the super-sexing of our society.

I absolutely agree the parents are at fault here. I may have been sexually aware at 12 having already started puberty, but I certainly wasn't sexually active and that's due to parenting.

[ken0042]

Originally Posted by Mean Mr. Mustard

how developed can someone be at the age of 12...

You aren't the first to ask this; but I would say it depends. I know in grade 5 I noticed girls starting to blossom. So it's not like a 12 year old who could pass for 15 or 16 in terms of development is rare. It might not be the norm; but without knowing the details of this girl I would say that in a moot point.

The one eye opener that was on Global- they did a "Jay-Walking" type thing with at least 15 or 20 high school kids; asking them if they knew what the age of conscent was. None of them knew for sure. Of course they could have just aired the 20 out of 100 who didn't know; but it begs the question- how does a kid find that out?

I know how I found out what the age of conscent laws were. I was 17 and so was my girlfriend; and I turned 18 before she did. Somebody I worked with told me I had to stop sleeping with her as I was now an adult. I went and looked it up and he was worng; however if he had been right I would have been breaking the law at the time.

Keep in mind why these laws exist; to protect kids from people who's moral compas may not be as finely tuned as your or mine. But if nobody tells these kids; incidents like this will occur.