2010 Blue Jays Season Thread - Page 61 - Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community

moon · 07-19-2010, 11:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by puckluck

Cheering for the Bluejays is really frustrating. I've been a pretty big fan of them since I was about 12 and they have always sucked. The MLB really needs a salary cap so the smaller teams can compete.

The Blue Jays aren't a smaller team so a salary cap isn't going to help them all that much.

JiriHrdina · 07-20-2010, 05:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by moon

The Blue Jays aren't a smaller team so a salary cap isn't going to help them all that much.

Divisional realignment is probably more important to the Jays' cause but certainly having all teams on an even playing field would help.

zukes · 07-20-2010, 06:57 AM

Kevin Gregg shouldd be traded for anything remotely resembling a prospect, or just flat out cut. I am sure he will blame last night's blown save on Cito for yanking him the night before.

I have not been so utterly petrified of a Jays closer since Billy Koch. At least with Jason Fraser you know he is going to blow it. I can't believe the best option the Jays have right now to close is Shawn Camp.

GirlySports · 07-20-2010, 08:34 AM

Blue Jays are not a small team. They just haven't invested well.

The key thing is to develop talent and have the money to keep them before they become free agents (which Rogers has).

AA can easily have this team kept and have a payroll of $120 million in 2012 onwards.
You won't see a good player lost due to salary like Halliday in the near future.

I really like the team right now. These are growing pains and they're 1 game over .500 90 games into the season!

Jason14h · 07-20-2010, 08:49 AM

In 90-92 the Jays had the highest payroll in the league.

If they start winning and drawing 45,000 game they will once again have a top 5-7 payroll.

Money isn't the issue. J.P. tried to build a team by spending.

flambers · 07-20-2010, 10:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jason14h

In 90-92 the Jays had the highest payroll in the league.

If they start winning and drawing 45,000 game they will once again have a top 5-7 payroll.

Money isn't the issue. J.P. tried to build a team by spending.

This year the Jays are spending money, however its split between the MLB roster and signing prospects.

Sylvanfan · 07-20-2010, 12:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GirlySports

Blue Jays are not a small team. They just haven't invested well.

The key thing is to develop talent and have the money to keep them before they become free agents (which Rogers has).

AA can easily have this team kept and have a payroll of $120 million in 2012 onwards.
You won't see a good player lost due to salary like Halliday in the near future.

I really like the team right now. These are growing pains and they're 1 game over .500 90 games into the season!

They didn't lose Halladay because of salary, but moreso because he didn't believe they would be a team competing for a playoff spot in the next few seasons within the AL East.

Realisticaly if AA is as smart as he seems to be, he'll be keeping the Halladay types for their first 2 or so years where they could be UFA by giving them 5 year deals when they first get into the arbitration years and than letting those guys walk after that.

As you suggest, money isn't really the issue for the Blue Jays so much as the means in which they've used it. They need to be a lot smarter with it than pretty much anyone else in Baseball if they want to be able to beat teams like Boston and the Yankees.

flambers · 07-20-2010, 01:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sylvanfan

They didn't lose Halladay because of salary, but moreso because he didn't believe they would be a team competing for a playoff spot in the next few seasons within the AL East.

Realisticaly if AA is as smart as he seems to be, he'll be keeping the Halladay types for their first 2 or so years where they could be UFA by giving them 5 year deals when they first get into the arbitration years and than letting those guys walk after that.

As you suggest, money isn't really the issue for the Blue Jays so much as the means in which they've used it. They need to be a lot smarter with it than pretty much anyone else in Baseball if they want to be able to beat teams like Boston and the Yankees.

I would say the Jays need to follow the Tampa Ray's path as the only way to be competitive with the Yank's. Hopefully they continue to sign players from Latin America etc...

GirlySports · 07-20-2010, 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sylvanfan

They didn't lose Halladay because of salary, but moreso because he didn't believe they would be a team competing for a playoff spot in the next few seasons within the AL East.

Realisticaly if AA is as smart as he seems to be, he'll be keeping the Halladay types for their first 2 or so years where they could be UFA by giving them 5 year deals when they first get into the arbitration years and than letting those guys walk after that.

As you suggest, money isn't really the issue for the Blue Jays so much as the means in which they've used it. They need to be a lot smarter with it than pretty much anyone else in Baseball if they want to be able to beat teams like Boston and the Yankees.

Yes you are correct. Why keep that contract for a team going nowhere and lose him in FA?

Quote:

Originally Posted by flambers

I would say the Jays need to follow the Tampa Ray's path as the only way to be competitive with the Yank's. Hopefully they continue to sign players from Latin America etc...

Blue Jays can do better than the Tampa Bay model. Toronto can have twice the salary. Tampa has had to get rid of some players, like Kazmir and I'm not sure they can keep Carl Crawford after this season. Toronto has enough money that in the future, they'd be able to lock someone like a Crawford.

That's the single thing that dissapointed me the most about JP's tenure. He doesn't believe in Latin American players. Which in Toronto doesn't make sense since alot of American players don't want to play in Toronto.

So I think JP totally handcuff himself.

Not saying that the Blue Jays should become the FIBA Toronto Craptors, but it's definitely a market that cannot be ignored. The Blue Jays are famous for being the first to crack into that market in the 80s.

Pagal4321 · 07-20-2010, 01:54 PM

Yunel Escobar is day to day with a right hand contusion. Test results were negative for a fracture.

According to BlueJays twitter account.

moon · 07-20-2010, 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GirlySports

That's the single thing that dissapointed me the most about JP's tenure. He doesn't believe in Latin American players. Which in Toronto doesn't make sense since alot of American players don't want to play in Toronto.

I think that American players don't want to play in Canada is a load of crap.

The reason the Raptors and jays have had any trouble attracting people up here is because they have sucked.

The Jays had no trouble convincing the best American FA's to come up here when the team had a chance to win. Now that travel is so easy, money is big enough you can easily live in multiple locations and really TO is so close to an American city I can't see that the location is a problem.

GirlySports · 07-20-2010, 02:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by moon

I think that American players don't want to play in Canada is a load of crap.

The reason the Raptors and jays have had any trouble attracting people up here is because they have sucked.

The Jays had no trouble convincing the best American FA's to come up here when the team had a chance to win. Now that travel is so easy, money is big enough you can easily live in multiple locations and really TO is so close to an American city I can't see that the location is a problem.

JP said it himself.

http://www.cbc.ca/sports/baseball/st...i-toronto.html

And not only free agents. He was unable to sign some of his draft choices.

Now I don't totally believe JP cause AA was able to sign his draft pick this year. But it's not something to be totally ignored either so Latin American is still a good place to scout!

moon · 07-20-2010, 02:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GirlySports

JP said it himself.

http://www.cbc.ca/sports/baseball/st...i-toronto.html

And not only free agents. He was unable to sign some of his draft choices.

Now I don't totally believe JP cause AA was able to sign his draft pick this year. But it's not something to be totally ignored either so Latin American is still a good place to scout!

I don't believe JP one bit but I guess it could be an issue.

It just seems odd that FA's and draft picks would be fine with going to St. Louis, Minnesota, Cincinatti, etc. but going to place like Toronto which they would probably fit in much better would be an issue because of its location on a map.

howard_the_duck · 07-20-2010, 02:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by moon

I don't believe JP one bit but I guess it could be an issue.

It just seems odd that FA's and draft picks would be fine with going to St. Louis, Minnesota, Cincinatti, etc. but going to place like Toronto which they would probably fit in much better would be an issue because of its location on a map.

It's easy for us to say that...like living in Toronto vs. Milwaukee is a no brainer for me, not even close.

However, regardless of Toronto as a city, crossing that border is a big issue for so many of these athletes. We all hear the cliched American ignorance of Canada (we live in igloo's, the ground is frozen tundra), and given this lack of attention paid to Canada by Americans, why would we expect athletes to be any different?

For example, Antonio Davis (formerly of the Raptors) publicly complained about the Canadian metric system and his children learning that in their education. And this was a key factor in his decision to stay or leave (that he talked about, anyway). My response to that is: "what the....who cares about the metric system? Seriously?"

I think American players being drafted by the Jays is fine, not a big deal, they'll learn about playing in Canada and are OK with it most often. But luring big money free agents is where I believe they are behind the 8 ball...big time.

Sylvanfan · 07-20-2010, 06:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GirlySports

That's the single thing that dissapointed me the most about JP's tenure. He doesn't believe in Latin American players. Which in Toronto doesn't make sense since alot of American players don't want to play in Toronto.

So I think JP totally handcuff himself.

Not saying that the Blue Jays should become the FIBA Toronto Craptors, but it's definitely a market that cannot be ignored. The Blue Jays are famous for being the first to crack into that market in the 80s.

Two of the best countries in Latin America in terms of producing talent are Venezuela, and Cuba. Neither country is particularly friendly with the U.S.A. so a player from either of those countries may see playing in Canada as an attraction. Looks like Anthopolis is trying to get a few guys from these two countries in particular. He does seem to have a game plan that goes back to how the Jays built up during the early 80's and eventually emerged as a pretty strong club.

flambers · 07-20-2010, 09:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pagal4321

Yunel Escobar is day to day with a right hand contusion. Test results were negative for a fracture.

According to BlueJays twitter account.

That is good news, I thought for sure his hand / wrist was broke. Especially since the Pitcher throws in the high 90's.

Hopefully he is back in a couple of days

OzSome · 07-21-2010, 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GirlySports

JP said it himself.

http://www.cbc.ca/sports/baseball/st...i-toronto.html

And not only free agents. He was unable to sign some of his draft choices.

Now I don't totally believe JP cause AA was able to sign his draft pick this year. But it's not something to be totally ignored either so Latin American is still a good place to scout!

The major reason for not getting those Americans to sign with TO was because the Blue Jays have been brutal for the past few seasons. As a player you wanted to play with the team who's got a chance to go all the way. The problem with Blue Jays is, they keep trading or losing those young and up and coming. They are signing those high salaried bums instead.

The Blue Jays should keep Jose Bautista, Adam Lind, Arron Hill, Escobar, maybe Encarnation, Buck and play the young guys more rather than putting Lyle O. Their season is almost a wash anyways. Oh yeah, find some young relievers who can play and definitely a good closer.

Gozer · 07-22-2010, 09:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OzSome

The major reason for not getting those Americans to sign with TO was because the Blue Jays have been brutal for the past few seasons. As a player you wanted to play with the team who's got a chance to go all the way. The problem with Blue Jays is, they keep trading or losing those young and up and coming. They are signing those high salaried bums instead.

The Jays have not been brutal, they've consistently been in the second tier of teams but have had two top-tier teams in their division.
It's about the division, not the Jays.

What young up and coming players have they lost?
Dustin McGowan?

Jason14h · 07-22-2010, 04:18 PM

Quote:

What young up and coming players have they lost?
Dustin McGowan?

McGowan is still with the Jays, most likely career ending injury.

The Jays problem is they are constantly too good to get a franchise batter, but too bad to compete.

Imagine if we had a Pujols/Cabrera type hitter at bat third? Just look what the Tigers did today. Pretty much 1 guy won them the game.

moon · 07-22-2010, 11:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jason14h

The Jays problem is they are constantly too good to get a franchise batter, but too bad to compete.

Imagine if we had a Pujols/Cabrera type hitter at bat third? Just look what the Tigers did today. Pretty much 1 guy won them the game.

That isn't really their problem at all.

As the resident Cardinals (and in many peoples eyes Jays hater) equating their problems to not having a guy like Pujols who is easily the best hitter of hi generation and possibly a top 5 guy of all time when is is done is just silly. Throw in the fact that he was a 14th round pick and it makes no sense at all.

The problem the Jays have had, outside of the garbage excuse of their division, is that they have overrated the readiness/ability of their young guys and overpaid on bad players.

The Jays seem to have corrected this problem, although it is very, very early, but JP did develop guys but made the mistake of thinking they were ready to early and wasting money on FA's like Thomas and Ryan.

The Jays issue isn't that they can't compete with NY and BOS but that they have to choose the right time to do it and that has to coincide with young guys taking the next step. When that happens then that is the time to spend money. JP chose the wrong time to make that next step and spent the money too early.

The thing about competing with those two teams now is that they produce as much young talent as other teams but still make bad signings. Yes the Jays can go head to head year after year but they can for say 5 years out of ten if they make smart decisions in bringing up their own talent.

Sure it woudl be great if they could luck out and get a talent like Pujols or Cabrera but if that is the plan you are not going to be successful for the most part.

For me the key is not to stop whining about the division, stop trying to win when the time isn't right (which the Red Sox have actually done) and build the team to compete for 5 years out of ten instead of being mediocre for 10 years out of ten.