Report: Israel storms Gaza-bound aid ships

[Flash Walken]

Sounds like Pirates, to me.

[SeeBass]

I can't believe nobody else is asking, why is their an Aljeezera reporter on the boat?

The passengers knew this was a provoking action. Perhaps, unknown to most, were martyrs for the cause.

I smell a set up

[Pastiche]

Yeah a setup where prostestors sacrifice themselves to make the IDF look bad.

</clueless>

[blankall]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

In the video I posted, you can see that is not the case.

Gunshot victims are on the boat before it is boarded.

There is really no proof of that whatsoever from the video you posted. The video has been edited in many ways and there is no way to see what happened first.

Edit: I should also add that it doesn't make any sense. The Israeli soldiers can clearly be seen being beaten with pipes. They have guns in their hands but aren't using them. Why would the IDF fire on the ship and then send in soldiers but not give them the authority to use their weapons. If the soldiers had authority to fire, I'm pretty sure they would do it after being hit several times by blunt objects.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Pastiche

Yeah a setup where prostestors sacrifice themselves to make the IDF look bad.

</clueless>

Because Hammas hasn't done that before.

Lets see during the last crisis, pulling the same body out of multiple sites.

Setting up their rocket sites at schools, and clinics in the hopes that Israel will go after it.

Use of human shields to create mass casualties which plays well to the media.

[Cowperson]

Originally Posted by Mean Mr. Mustard

What do you expect to happen if you resist against a military force who has previously requested your ship to stop, a request which was ignored to the best of my knowledge. If people don't see that this has the potential to result in deadly force being used then they are only fooling themselves.

It's a good political tactic by those opposed to the Israeli occupation.

Ironically, it kind of reminds me of the exodus from Europe in the aftermath of world war II where ships loaded with Jews were being prevented from landing by the British . . . . and the political and visual beating everyone but the Israeli's took at the time.

Cowperson

[Coys1882]

I got pulled over by the police once - he had no reason to pull me over but he asked me to get out of the car, so I did. Once he saw I had nothing to hide and I wasn't maybe the person/car he was looking for he let me go with no problems.

[Bownesian]

To me, this comes down to a pretty simple question:

Should Hamas and every other group in Palastine have the unfettered right to import weapons into Gaza?

- If yes, then the IDF has no right to control the flow of cargo into Gaza or the West Bank and shouldn't be stopping and searching anyone.

- If no, then the IDF has the right to maintain its land and sea blockade in order to prevent weapons transport. Even if it turns out that there were no weapons at all on these ships and the cargo was all humanitarian aid, Israel must still verify that for each and every truck and ship that crosses the border.

Israel's answer to my question is No, Hamas and more violent factions should not be able to import weapons because they are at war with Israel.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by HPLovecraft

A nation known for being trigger-happy, and people are just assuming they were the victims? When it comes to Israel, I believe about as much as they say as I would when the Soviets would release info.

I think both sides are pretty much trigger happy don't you?

Originally Posted by HPLovecraft

I want more information to come out before I condemn either side. As is the most common situation, it was likely mistakes made on both sides. Over-aggressive brainwashed Zionist commandos versus messiah-complex, martyr wannabe "peace" activists.

Oh I agree, I want both sides, but how is it over aggressive if the IDF boarding party was attacked when they boarded the boat? At that point it becomes a defense action.

Originally Posted by HPLovecraft

If the "humanitarian" workers attacked me with pipes and such, I'd open fire, too. If, however, a bunch of souped-up commandos opened fire on me, I'd attack 'em, too. So it can go both ways.

Sure thats why I want both sides, but watching the video's the IDF came under attack first.

Originally Posted by HPLovecraft

We need more info. Also, there have been no reports of there being firearms on the ship. Just pipes and knives.

Lets wait and see, there were reports of assembled and deployable weapons. I'm pretty well guessing that once that ship reaches port its going to be ripped down to the bottom. If there were no weapons shipments there Israel will take a black eye on this. However neither side is on the side of angels.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Lets wait and see, there were reports of assembled and deployable weapons. I'm pretty well guessing that once that ship reaches port its going to be ripped down to the bottom. If there were no weapons shipments there Israel will take a black eye on this. However neither side is on the side of angels.

I would actually be very surprised to find out there were weapons on board.

Obviously more facts need to come out, but from what I can see this is what happened:

Protestors declare their intention to enter Israeli territory. Once the protestors enter Israel's 200 nautical mile economic zone, Israel requests to board the ship. This request is ignored.

Israeli troops then board the ship. Peolpe on the ship have worked themsevles up and distributed pipes, blunt objects, and knives to a crowd of dozens. This crowd attack the Israelis. At some point the situation escalates and the Israelis fire.

I don't think it was a question of the passengers defending stashed weapons, but beign worked up to the point they engaged teh soldiers. If the soldiers overeacted or not is left to be seen.

[SeeBass]

Originally Posted by Pastiche

Yeah a setup where prostestors sacrifice themselves to make the IDF look bad.

</clueless>

If you think that is out of the realm of possible than you don't know this issue as good as I thought.

Planted martyrs on a ship with large public attention, guaranteed to be seized, provoke to use weapons, perhaps getting some innocents killed...all in an effort to make the IDF look bad

My guess it's the next tactic.

[Devil's Rule]

What a sad day for the middle east peace effort and those "legitimately" supporting it's effort on both sides.

Interestingly enough, reading many of the articles that do not have a decidely pro-Isreali take in their articles, the comments simply are flooded by pro-Isreali comments. Sounds fishy to me...check this propaganda article out.

I hope the real truth comes out soon via international investigation and the VRB - Voyage Data Recorder...the equivelent of the the airplane's black box.

[FlamesAddiction]

Sounds like most of the dead are Turks and Turkey has pulled its ambassador from Israel.

Too bad, at one time, the Turks were the only muslim country allied with Israel. Ironically, Kurds fired rockets at a Turkish base today and killed a few people... I wonder if Turkey's response will be the same thing as Israel's response would be...

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by SeeBass

If you think that is out of the realm of possible than you don't know this issue as good as I thought.

Planted martyrs on a ship with large public attention, guaranteed to be seized, provoke to use weapons, perhaps getting some innocents killed...all in an effort to make the IDF look bad

My guess it's the next tactic.

I have some stock in a tinfoil hat company I would like to sell you.

[Coys1882]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

I have some stock in a tinfoil hat company I would like to sell you.

Sure you're not wearing them all yourself?

[SeeBass]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

I have some stock in a tinfoil hat company I would like to sell you.

Yeah I'm sticking my neck out, but so what, just adding to the conversation

When the boat was departing from Turkey people on this boat were chanting "death to israel" as per CNN.

These are the same people that moved their forces around in an ambulance. They set up shop near a UN bunker in hopes it would get hit. I don't think the leap is that far.

[spiteface]

Azure, why do they have to take order from the Israelis? They are clearly not in their territory nor are they delivering weapons to Hammas. Afterall, the Turkish govt does not have a history of sending anything beyond humanitarian aid to the area. This comes down to the same game every time. Israel is so freakin paranoid because it knows it has severed any sort of reconciliatory motions with the Palestinian people and it will continue to try to alienate the Palestinian people from their land and from their existence in this world. It is exactly as another stated before me, a Zionist push determined to extinguish an uprooted people forever.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by spiteface

Azure, why do they have to take order from the Israelis? They are clearly not in their territory nor are they delivering weapons to Hammas. Afterall, the Turkish govt does not have a history of sending anything beyond humanitarian aid to the area. This comes down to the same game every time. Israel is so freakin paranoid because it knows it has severed any sort of reconciliatory motions with the Palestinian people and it will continue to try to alienate the Palestinian people from their land and from their existence in this world. It is exactly as another stated before me, a Zionist push determined to extinguish an uprooted people forever.

Does it even matter?

If someone says don't come near me or I'll shoot you, would you go near him?

I wouldn't.

The situation over there isn't perfect. Far from it actually. But to fight back against the IDF is stupid. What do they expect? The IDF troops will shoot them with water pistols and throw a big party on the ship?

[longsuffering]

So the body count is 9 or 10 on one side, zero on the other. Yeah, the IDF was in fear for their lives.

Sounds like the Vancouver RCMP. "he came at me with a stapler, I had to kill him".

Like always, the Israeli response is so out of proportion as to be criminal.

Irael illegally boarded a humanitarian vessel in international waters, then shot and killed people armed with clubs They are worse than pirates.

Israel is on the road to becoming a pariah state. Even their staunchest allies haven't rushed to their defense. Netanyahu is a war mongerer and terrorist.

[HPLovecraft]

Originally Posted by Zevo

Really? They are soldiers doing thier job just like Canadian soldiers in Afganistan.
I take offense to this as my son-in-law is Israeli Special Forces. My daughter met him while travelling in India and they married 2 yrs later.
Your generalizations couldn't be further from the truth as we meet many members of his 'unit' when we were there for the wedding.

The IDF's ongoing battle with Hamas and other groups is nothing, ideologically, like what is going on with Canadians in Afghanistan. It is not just doing your job when you believe the survival of your entire race is on the line every time you go out there, and you're launching missiles into housing complexes basically next door to your own abodes.

I have nothing against the Jewish religion or Jewish people in general, but I do take issue with a good few beliefs of the Zionist movement, especially when it comes to the forceful "transfer" of Arabs for the settlement of Jews. The IDF has done some awful, AWFUL things, and ordinary people have to rationalize them somehow, I suppose.

Doesn't mean your son-in law is a a radical Zionist, but there ARE some of them in the IDF. My hyperbole was used as a rhetorical device, just like when I said martyr wannabes for the other people on the ship -- which you didn't have an issue with.