LOST sixth and final season

[ResAlien]

I guess my issue with the ending is why bother with the other stories? So everyone is dead. OK, fantastic. Why bother with the Others. Why bother with the Dharma initiative and the whole electromagnetic angle. Why bother with the Jacob and Smokey backstory? People rising from the dead, the whispers, magic Walt. Time travel, Faraday, Richard, The Black Rock, all of it. What does any of that have to do with the endgame?

I'm sure someone out there knows more than I do, but at this point it feels like a big old FU from the LOST creators.

[LGA]

Originally Posted by nik-

uhhhh .... didn't they EXPLICITLY state in the past that everyone didn't die, and that the island wasn't a purgatory type place? They said they weren't going this route.

I was REALLY enjoying the episode until Christian Shepard appeared. Ugh, I don't know what to think right now.

edit: I think I'm a little confused by this. When did these death's occur, is it just Jack's death? Did they all die in the plane crash? The shot of the Ajira plane flying over Jack as he dies is what is throwing me for a loop here.

Christian states that some died before him and other died long after him. He also mentions that there is no "now." What I got from that is that they all died at different times, but they all had such a profound effect on each other that after they died they all went to this purgatory-realm to wait for each other. In their time of waiting they forgot why they were waiting and built lives for themselves.

It could also be that since there is no sense of time, once they died they just arrived at the Sydney airport and waited around until everyone arrived.

[flames_1987]

God that was awesome and a great article thank you

[HPLovecraft]

Originally Posted by ResAlien

I guess my issue with the ending is why bother with the other stories? So everyone is dead. OK, fantastic. Why bother with the Others. Why bother with the Dharma initiative and the whole electromagnetic angle. Why bother with the Jacob and Smokey backstory? People rising from the dead, the whispers, magic Walt. Time travel, Faraday, Richard, The Black Rock, all of it. What does any of that have to do with the endgame?

I'm sure someone out there knows more than I do, but at this point it feels like a big old FU from the LOST creators.

I've come to the conclusion what happened on the Island was real, especially after reading that article. They weren't dead at the time they crashed. They all died at different times, in the future. Jack died shortly after laying down in the trees. Kate, Lapidus, Sawyer, Richard, and Miles all died later, maybe of old age, maybe of disease, who knows, when they arrived off of the Island. Ben and Hurley stayed on the Island. They helped Desmond leave. Eventually, they died, too.

The "alt" time-line really isn't alternate at all. That's the thing. They are DEAD in it. It's after they've all died. It wasn't created by the H-bomb. All the H-bomb did was send them ahead in time and create the "incident" that in turn created the need to build the hatch and press the button. They are all together in this timeless "waiting room" at this point because, like Christian says, there is no "now" in it. Time is a human construct. In this spiritual world of after-life, it doesn't exist.

Everything that came before on the Island mattered. It mattered, most of all, in the relationships it forged between these characters. That was the crux of the Lost story-line, not the mythology. The mythology itself is rich, and they gave us a lot of material in which to be able to form our own multitude of interpretations. But, in the end, it was about Jack, Kate, Sawyer, Desmond, etc., not the Egyptian hieroglyphs.

The "endgame" was these characters moving on, finally, into the after-life. Everything that came before that was just progress.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Mike F

I have to respectfully disagree with just about everything.


They weren't trying to sum up the whole series or give us "the answers", they were just trying to end the story, which doesn't have to (and shouldn't try to) do both to any great extent.

To me that was the cop out in this series. They started it as a series that was deep into alleged mythologies, a super natural element, and admittedly some nice character development. Then in the very end, they basically said, the mythology, the concept of the Island, the concept of the MIB being a powerful evil who's very plan in leaving the Island would snuff out life everywhere. To me it was somewhat lame. Don't get me wrong, it was nice to see all parties get a happy ending. But that wasn't really what I was after.

Originally Posted by Mike F

Half the episode was the producers revealing what the flash sideways universe was, which was a pleasant purgatory the Losties had created so they could find each other in the afterlife. It answered a question (what was that universe) and allowed for universal happy, tearjerking endings without violating one of the Lost universes prime laws - Life can be ugly, and not everyone gets a happy ending - by giving us a glimpse of their afterlife where that rule need not apply. As I said above, call me an old softie, but I loved it.

The flash sideways alternate reality had very little to do with the Island, with the exception that we can assume that it was the creation of the final protector. I respect that you love it, but as anyone who reads any of my posts know, I'm hardly an old softy, I didn't tune into Lost for 6 years to see what I consider to be a soft shoe ending that had in my mind a lot of holes. We saw Anna Lucia in the purgatory but not in the church unless I missed it. We had Walt a few episodes say that he was basically stuck on the Island because of his actions on the Island, yet we see Ben in the AR which means that he was dead but choose not to let go, he did horrid things on the Island, shouldn't he still be stuck there in dead form.

We can make the assumption that Kate, Lupedius, Sawyer and the others on the Plane escaped the Island which was the reality plane, made their way home and lived a long lonely life before dying and being allowed into Hurley's construct. BTW I don't remember seeing the Pilot of the ghost whisperer in the church, do we assume that they're still alive, why would Hurley not allow them into the paradise. I guess we should assume that Hurley eventually died because there he was letting go, who's watching the Island?

Originally Posted by Mike F

The island was responsible for all of the supernatural elements of the show, including MIB & Richard's immortality and the inability of MIB to leave the island. By having Desmond shut down the island, all of that was suspended. MIB could leave, but he needed to give up his immortality to do it. It wasn't about creating a distraction, it was about removing barriers the only way they could be

The Island and the mythology on the Island was real. But I disagree with your point about MIB. He didn't lose his mortality when the plug was pulled, I believe that Jack changed the rules. Pulling the plug and the surprise that he could be hurt were the distraction for MIB. I'm still pissed at the lame death of the MIB, I think that the ending that I had written before would have been a far far better ending and made more sense in the context of the series.

I just think that this kind of an ending was a bit of a cop out, I thought it was weak, I thought that they left holes because in the end they were scrambling to pull together the elements of what was a very cool concept and instead gave us what amounts to a Gilligan's Island reunion special in combination with the Search for Spock and Heaven can wait.

I'm not saying it was Seinfieldesque terrible in terms of series endings. As always the acting was excellent, as always some of the dialogue was excellent. I just think it fell far short of the rest of the series.

And I do remember that the writers at one time swore up and down that they weren't going to do a purgatory story, and in the end they did.

It could have been better, instead my skirt instead of blowing up limped over the finish line.

Originally Posted by Mike F

You really think they re-thought the explanation for the island after building that set, which would have been in the last weeks?


I'm certain the "they were all dead all along" fear is wrong, which you seem to have now accepted.

I think it was just that, I looked at that set and it was elaborate, and obviously man made, but it wasn't important anymore. They made so many hints throughout this season to the origin of everything on that Island from the temple, to the four toed statue to the donkey wheels, but in the end we got the Indiana Jones treatment. It doesn't matter, if we pull the plug the Island will sink, if we plug it back in the Island was saved.

I agree they weren't dead all along. But even the Island being the cork holding in evil was a terrible explanation. It was the protector being the plug over evil. The plug in the Island was literally a drain port.

[Wookie]

Oooh! ... so everything's wrapped up in a neat little package ... I was serious. Sorry if I sounded sarcastic.

[Wookie]

Sigh... I can't wait for tomorrow. Don't think there will be much confusion after that!!

[trackercowe]

Good to see some of these celebs that are obsessed with Lost as well.

My friends thought I was nuts for taking the night off, and putting all my phones on voice mail.

What a tremendous journey it has been.

So sad that it's over...

They should do a spin-off with Hurley, and Ben on the island. I smell ratings.

[Mike F]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

To me that was the cop out in this series. They started it as a series that was deep into alleged mythologies, a super natural element, and admittedly some nice character development. Then in the very end, they basically said, the mythology, the concept of the Island, the concept of the MIB being a powerful evil who's very plan in leaving the Island would snuff out life everywhere. To me it was somewhat lame. Don't get me wrong, it was nice to see all parties get a happy ending. But that wasn't really what I was after.

I disagree that they didn't provide significant answers to the island mythology, but if it wasn't what you were looking for then it wasn't. Unfortunate, but it sounds like we were looking for different things ad one of us was bound to be disappointed. Glad it was you

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

The flash sideways alternate reality had very little to do with the Island, with the exception that we can assume that it was the creation of the final protector. I respect that you love it, but as anyone who reads any of my posts know, I'm hardly an old softy, I didn't tune into Lost for 6 years to see what I consider to be a soft shoe ending that had in my mind a lot of holes. We saw Anna Lucia in the purgatory but not in the church unless I missed it. We had Walt a few episodes say that he was basically stuck on the Island because of his actions on the Island, yet we see Ben in the AR which means that he was dead but choose not to let go, he did horrid things on the Island, shouldn't he still be stuck there in dead form.

We can make the assumption that Kate, Lupedius, Sawyer and the others on the Plane escaped the Island which was the reality plane, made their way home and lived a long lonely life before dying and being allowed into Hurley's construct. BTW I don't remember seeing the Pilot of the ghost whisperer in the church, do we assume that they're still alive, why would Hurley not allow them into the paradise. I guess we should assume that Hurley eventually died because there he was letting go, who's watching the Island?

The final protector didn't create the sideways universe - Christian said it was a collective creation of all of the Losties which arose from the intense connections generated during their time together.

Those who were in the church were simply those who had found each other and were ready to move on.

Lapidis, Michael, Walt, etc. I imagine they all get to the sideways universe in time and move on at their own pace as Elosie an Ben (who evidently did some good work as Hurley's #2 to earn some redemption) seem to be doing.

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

The Island and the mythology on the Island was real. But I disagree with your point about MIB. He didn't lose his mortality when the plug was pulled, I believe that Jack changed the rules. Pulling the plug and the surprise that he could be hurt were the distraction for MIB. I'm still pissed at the lame death of the MIB, I think that the ending that I had written before would have been a far far better ending and made more sense in the context of the series.

If MIB's mortality was due to Jack changing the rules, Kate would have killed MIB when she shot him the first time. Plus, Jack said he had no idea how he was going to kill MIB, never showed a moment where he realized he could just change the rules, and seemed a bit surprised when his punch drew blood.

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

I just think that this kind of an ending was a bit of a cop out, I thought it was weak, I thought that they left holes because in the end they were scrambling to pull together the elements of what was a very cool concept and instead gave us what amounts to a Gilligan's Island reunion special in combination with the Search for Spock and Heaven can wait.

The writers came up with the final arc 3 years ago, and you can see scene setting over the last few seasons. The elements of the concept were put in place in order to get them to where they ended tonight. There was absolutely no scrambling.

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

And I do remember that the writers at one time swore up and down that they weren't going to do a purgatory story, and in the end they did.

The producers swore the Island wasn't purgatory and it wasn't - everything on the island happened and mattered.

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

I think it was just that, I looked at that set and it was elaborate, and obviously man made, but it wasn't important anymore. They made so many hints throughout this season to the origin of everything on that Island from the temple, to the four toed statue to the donkey wheels, but in the end we got the Indiana Jones treatment. It doesn't matter, if we pull the plug the Island will sink, if we plug it back in the Island was saved.

The producers said all along that they weren't looking to explain every question, and "Who created the island?" was obviously one of them.

I get that you wanted that answer, but just because they chose not to give it because it wasn't important to the story they were trying to tell doesn't mean that they cop-ed out or changed their minds in a last minute scramble.

Edit: If you still think they were scrambling, consider this -- in the opening scenes of episode 5 of this season, in a flash sideways, Jack is getting changed and notices a scar on his abdomen. He asks his mom if he got his appendix out, because he didn't recall where it came from. Now, 13 episodes later we have the answer - it's the wound he died from.

[trackercowe]

Could anyone please explain how "Dancing With the Stars" is the #1 show on television?

What the hell is wrong with people?

No more Lost, 24, The Sopranos, or The Wire. But thank God we still have Dancing With the Stars, So You Think You Can Dance, American Idol, and the Bachelor!

[HotHotHeat]

Originally Posted by trackercowe

Could anyone please explain how "Dancing With the Stars" is the #1 show on television?

What the hell is wrong with people?

No more Lost, 24, The Sopranos, or The Wire. But thank God we still have Dancing With the Stars, So You Think You Can Dance, American Idol, and the Bachelor!

Fringe.

[Flabbibulin]

Anyone else watch the Jimmy Kimmel Lost special? The "alternate ending" parodies were freakin awful...

[flames_1987]

Originally Posted by Wookie

Sigh... I can't wait for tomorrow. Don't think there will be much confusion after that!!

Yup except without the mythology, strong acting and graceful end to the story. 24!!!!

[PyramidsofMars]

Originally Posted by ResAlien

Thanks tips.

It felt like a huge cop out. Why bother with any of the last, oh, 4 seasons then? Oh, everyone is dead, ok. Crap IMO.

The clear statement that the sideways was the purgatory-like place, the timeless place, the collective conscious-y place, and that everything that happened on the island was real and important, and that in fact they were only in this purgatory-like place together cuz their island lives were so freakin' important, that didn't make it pretty damn clear to you that uh, the sideways was the purgatory-like place and not the island?!

It was big, bombastic, cheesy, sappy, messy, sloppy, derivative-yet-somehow-original, it had some brilliant character moments, some great thematic work, and some really sloppy and obvious and hamfisted crap, it was LOST, it was what this show is all about and always has been all about. It wasn't perfect, but I'll be damned if it wasn't quintessentially LOST.

That's all I wanted from the finale.

and while the Sideways is now questionable as a narrative choice, if a nice way to say goodbye to the characters, it certainly doesn't nullify anything that happened on the island.

And Jack dying like that, his eye closing just as he sees his friends leaving the island, leaving it for good without the baggage, a close-up on his eye with Vincent there, the eye shuts, the story's over. That's LOST, folks.

It is what it is. An exasperating, soulful, emotional rollercoaster. An alternately intelligent and hammy meditation on The Big Questions. More than anything, a striking character drama.

A beautiful, epic mess.

[Captain_Obvious]

Originally Posted by ResAlien

I guess my issue with the ending is why bother with the other stories? So everyone is dead. OK, fantastic.

Everyone died... eventually.

I fail to see how that was hard to miss.

They all died eventually, as everyone does. Surely you didn't think they were immortal?

You seem to be under the impression they all died in the same instant. I thought they dropped enough lines that showed that isn't the case.

- - -

Also, I'm really lost as to how anyone thought they all died in the initial crash. If that was the case they would have been total strangers... not laughing and reminiscing like old friends at the afterlife party.

[PyramidsofMars]

Originally Posted by Captain_Obvious

Also, I'm really lost as to how anyone thought they all died in the initial crash. .

Lack of attention paid, it's that simple.

What's hilarious is that the LA Times put out a review saying that they were dead all along. Last time I checked it was rated 1/5 by the readers and there was a flood of comments telling the stupid cow who wrote the article the... obvious.

[burnin_vernon]

Originally Posted by ResAlien

I guess my issue with the ending is why bother with the other stories? So everyone is dead. OK, fantastic. Why bother with the Others. Why bother with the Dharma initiative and the whole electromagnetic angle. Why bother with the Jacob and Smokey backstory? People rising from the dead, the whispers, magic Walt. Time travel, Faraday, Richard, The Black Rock, all of it. What does any of that have to do with the endgame?

I'm sure someone out there knows more than I do, but at this point it feels like a big old FU from the LOST creators.

I think all those events served as great situations to build the characters; to show us all what they are made of.

I think I can grasp most of the show in a way that satisfies me but can someone please explain at what point the island was submerged, statue and all? Or was that just a visual "what-if?" scenario.

[DrJ]

Originally Posted by gottabekd

Guys, they weren't dead the whole time.

Christian says something along the lines of "Your time on the island was the most important part of your lives". Really doesn't mean anything if they were already dead.

In the flash sideways, they are all dead, and at the church meet up, they all were there to "let go" (i.e. stop existing in the make believe flash sideways timeline).

Eloise Hawking knows this, which is why she doesn't want Desmond to take her son (Daniel) with them. Eloise killed Daniel in the real timeline, and so enjoys the make believe world where he can still be alive with her. She hasn't let go yet.

Great interpretation. I was wondering why Linus wouldn't come with them and thanks for your thoughts! Ughh...couldn't wait until the morning and decided to watch it all now. Definitely needs a re-watch with 100% attention.

[DrJ]

Originally Posted by gottabekd

If you were paying close attention, the church was multi-denominational. There were symbols and artifacts from a bunch of religions scattered throughout the church. If you have it PVR'd or the like, look closely at the stained glass in the church. I don't have access, but maybe someone can post a screenshot.

Just skipped to find this part and yes, there are 6 panes of glass. There is a white crescent moon with a 5-pointed star, a Cross, the Star of David, a Ying-Yang symbol, a wheel with 8 spokes (not sure what this represents) and finally another symbol I am not familiar with.

I downloaded the LOST and the time stamp is at 44:36 for those interested. I would screen shot but I'm going to pass out. I'm exhausted so apologies.

[Antithesis]

The wheel represents Buddhism if I remember right.

FFR you have it exactly right as far as I'm concerned. Everything happened on the island. The flashsideways is a separate reality (either an afterlife or not, whichever) that is occuring 'after' every character has passed away in the normal course of their lives, some after Jack did in the bamboo grove (Ben, Hurley) and some before (Charlie, Boone, etc). They did not die in the initial plane crash. Everything that happened on the island (the Original Timeline) actually happened. Kate, Sawer, Lapidus, Miles, Claire, and Richard all survived to leave the island and die in the natural course of their lives afterward.

I am so, so satisfied. The best series finale I have ever seen.