^Except that's not how it works. I turn on my phone, unlock, and launch the calculator. I don't do anything in the calculator, just hit the home button and launch mail. Immediatly I hit the home button without touch anything in mail and launch settings and I double tap the home button to show the dock of running applications and Calc and mail are both showing as running applications.
In order to quit them or get them out of the dock, I hold my finger down on each icon to get the wiggle and delete them.
So you are basing your understanding of the iPhone OS on where icons are shown on the screen. Here’s a hint, I have icons in my OS X dock too, and they aren’t all live either.
I can guarantee you that the calculator is not running in the background chewing up memory. If there is nothing for calculator to do (and if its not active on the screen, there is ZERO for it to do), it is either going into suspended state mode, which is basically serializing the contents of the objects that make up the app to disk, or quitting entirely. Either way, it is not an active, scheduled process in memory.
__________________
-Scott
Last edited by sclitheroe; 04-08-2010 at 06:19 PM.
fast app switching (what is being described w/ calculator):
"This is probably the easiest for developers to adopt and probably the most important. Fast app switching is what allows an application when you're running it and switch away to store all of its state and move into a queiscent state in the background so its not using any CPU process at all. ...instantly back where you left it upon return. no need to launch the application. no need to restore the state. everything has been preserved and you're right back where you were."
you don't have to close the app. it isn't using any cpu processes
fast app switching (what is being described w/ calculator):
"This is probably the easiest for developers to adopt and probably the most important. Fast app switching is what allows an application when you're running it and switch away to store all of its state and move into a queiscent state in the background so its not using any CPU process at all. ...instantly back where you left it upon return. no need to launch the application. no need to restore the state. everything has been preserved and you're right back where you were."
you don't have to close the app. it isn't using any cpu processes
Exactly - in programming, its called serialization. You stream out the contents of all the objects that make up your app (or more accurately, in this case, the OS does it for you), and when the app is restarted, the objects are re-constituted in their “as running” state. That the dock shows them as “active” applications simply indicates that they are in an “in use” state, meaning that they are coming back on screen the way you left them previously.
The calculator already does this - many apps have already implemented their own serialization techniques, but presumably offering it as an API at the OS level means its going to be more robust and higher performing, and easier for developers, since its a simple API call when their app gets notification from the OS that the user is switching away from it - the app can simply say to the OS, “okay, serialize me, see you later”.
The other forms of multitasked services, such as background music playing, etc, task completion (eg. downloads) will in all likelyhood be implemented as callbacks from the OS to the app’s internal logic, or the app will spawn very lightweight threads that continue to interact with a subset of the iPhone OS API.
I realize it isn't using CPU cycles. If the app is not doing anything, why is it shown as being an active application in the dock. Just because I launched it at some point in time?
If I turn on my phone, launch the calculator and immediatly return to the home screen, why does the calculator show up in the dock as a running application?
I realize it isn't using CPU cycles. If the app is not doing anything, why is it shown as being an active application in the dock. Just because I launched it at some point in time?
If I turn on my phone, launch the calculator and immediatly return to the home screen, why does the calculator show up in the dock as a running application?
so you can switch back and forth between apps (multitask)
imagine you're sending an email to your colleague when you need to know what 3x4 is. unfortunately you're really bad at math (didn't take the time to learn those multiplication tables).
so you load up calculator, do the calculation and it spits out 12.
you jump back to mail, type that in and then realize that for whatever reason you need 4 times larger.
switch to your calculator again, 12 is still in its memory (its just as you left it, just like if you had a calculator beside your computer, set it down, and then picked it up again). type in x4 and it spits out 48.
return to mail, type in 48 and send your important message which earns you millions of dollars.
simple use, but it probably saved you a half second (and will for the rest of your life!)
another example:
imagine you've got a resource intensive application that has to load a bunch of information before start-up. so when you launch it, the app takes 30 seconds to load. you open it up, wait patiently for it to load up, and suddenly you get an email.
jump to mail, read/reply to it.
return to your app with its launch routines all finished.
again, you saved 30 seconds, or whatever it takes to launch that app.
so in short, it's not active. a better way would be to say it is prefetched and ready to go.
Of course many will just say that it's a cash grab to get more people to upgrade. I truly think it would have been too much for the 3g to handle, but I also think Steve would love for you to upgrade. Actually I don't even need to think it
I don't know if that's true. If multi-tasking is available on jailbroken iphone 3Gs, surely an official solution from Apple should work, and work better. He went on about how their method of multi-tasking was designed to optimize performance and save battery; doesn't that mean it does not require the extra horse power the 3GS has to make it work? At least that's my initial thought having no idea how their multi-tasking actually works. I understand in the end apple wants to push more hardware and it is a business, I just wish they would come out and say it.
so you can switch back and forth between apps (multitask)
imagine you're sending an email to your colleague when you need to know what 3x4 is. unfortunately you're really bad at math (didn't take the time to learn those multiplication tables).
so you load up calculator, do the calculation and it spits out 12.
you jump back to mail, type that in and then realize that for whatever reason you need 4 times larger.
switch to your calculator again, 12 is still in its memory (its just as you left it, just like if you had a calculator beside your computer, set it down, and then picked it up again). type in x4 and it spits out 48.
return to mail, type in 48 and send your important message which earns you millions of dollars.
simple use, but it probably saved you a half second (and will for the rest of your life!)
another example:
imagine you've got a resource intensive application that has to load a bunch of information before start-up. so when you launch it, the app takes 30 seconds to load. you open it up, wait patiently for it to load up, and suddenly you get an email.
jump to mail, read/reply to it.
return to your app with its launch routines all finished.
again, you saved 30 seconds, or whatever it takes to launch that app.
so in short, it's not active. a better way would be to say it is prefetched and ready to go.
I understand the multitasking, I don't like the implementation.
Say I have 3 pages of apps so, 36 apps + the 4 in the bottom row so 40 apps. I get on the bus in the morning, turn my phone on (dock is empty) and check my emails and throughout the day I at some point launch every app with calculator being the last one so, now I have in my dock:
Mail - 38 other icons - Calculator. All on 10 dock pages.
so by your example I would have to do this to get to the calculator
Home > Home to bring up the dock Swipe > Swipe > Swipe > Swipe > Swipe > Swipe > Swipe > Swipe > Swipe > Swipe > Touch the calculator icon
Use calculator and get back to email so I
Home > Home to bring up the dock Swipe > Swipe > Swipe > Swipe > Swipe > Swipe > Swipe > Swipe > Swipe > Swipe > Touch the Mail icon.
Right now, without multitasking I would (assuming calc and mail are on separate pages):
Home > Swipe > Swipe > Touch the calculator icon
and to get back to mail
Home > Swipe > Swipe > Touch Mail icon.
Why have this dock at all? What I am getting at is, is this dock the only way to get back to an application that has had its state frozen or can I touch its regular icon?
I cant see myself ever using it if i could just hit the home button once instead of twice and swipe through less pages of icons that I have organized rather than the dock pages that are ordered by application launch order.
I don't know if that's true. If multi-tasking is available on jailbroken iphone 3Gs, surely an official solution from Apple should work, and work better. He went on about how their method of multi-tasking was designed to optimize performance and save battery; doesn't that mean it does not require the extra horse power the 3GS has to make it work? At least that's my initial thought having no idea how their multi-tasking actually works. I understand in the end apple wants to push more hardware and it is a business, I just wish they would come out and say it.
there is no way to respond to this without sounding like a fanboi but i'm going to try anyway...
people who jailbreak their iphone are more tolerant of the decreased battery life and performance seeing as they expect a few bugs. they know they're breaking the rules and don't hold it against apple if something goes wrong.
apple's really evangelical about the user experience. they've got a good reputation for it. that kind of branding is worth a lot of money to them. in fact, it's probably worth more than they get from a few "forced upgrades"
Last edited by Flames0910; 04-08-2010 at 08:02 PM.
I understand the multitasking, I don't like the implementation.
Mail - 38 other icons - Calculator. All on 10 dock pages.
so by your example I would have to do this to get to the calculator
Home > Home to bring up the dock Swipe > Swipe > Swipe > Swipe > Swipe > Swipe > Swipe > Swipe > Swipe > Swipe > Touch the calculator icon
Use calculator and get back to email so I
Home > Home to bring up the dock Swipe > Swipe > Swipe > Swipe > Swipe > Swipe > Swipe > Swipe > Swipe > Swipe > Touch the Mail icon.
watch the keynote again. it brings the apps you've used recently to the front. at most you might have to swipe once... if you haven't used the calculator in that long then you're probably just going to relaunch it.
EDIT:
in both my examples you had just opened the app.
Home > Home, tap
if not,
Home, tap. then switch back with Home > Home, tap. back again with Home > Home, tap.
EDIT2:
I see you edited your post to respond to the application launch order while i was typing out the examples.
Seriously? You can't see how having the applications you are currently using at the tip of your fingers (literally) is better than having to look all over for them? Imagine removing the taskbar and alt-tab from windows and forcing every window to run maximized. Now you have to find everything you've got open by retrieving it from the desktop or file system again. How is that efficient?
This is exactly like using Alt-Tab in windows except only the active application uses system resources.
Last edited by Flames0910; 04-08-2010 at 08:11 PM.
Well, this thread has been free of Apple-skeptics for long enough.
From what I can tell, there's nothing in OS4 that isn't already available in Android. I would argue that Android does multitasking better, because it actually does kill of apps all the way if you haven't used them and it decides it needs the system resources. Its pretty funny that during the Q&A Jobs said "In multitasking, if you see a task manager... they blew it. Users shouldn't ever have to think about it." Then everyone turns around and finds out that you long-press things in the "active" doc to bring up a kill button. Sounds like a task manager to me Steve...
Open apps are not in your dock. Your dock is still just your dock. The normal dock slides up to reveal a sideways scrollable separate dock - which is where all your running apps are.
Well, this thread has been free of Apple-skeptics for long enough.
Dude, you're never going to buy an iPhone or iPad. Why do you keep hanging out here? I have no intention of ever buying a boat, do you see me hanging out in boating threads trying to find ways of explaining why boats suck to the other people there?
When the Android does what the iPhone did to an entire class of devices your question will be valid.
That's my thing. I don't deny Apple their achievements. The first iPhone was an amazing leap forward in both hardware and software. The App store was an amazing leap forward, and changed the entire idea of a smart phone. I'm still waiting for the next great innovation. Its good for technology if Apple continues to do groundbreaking things. It just doesn't seem like they're on the leading edge anymore. Some people want to slam on me for pointing this out, but to me its a legit concern.
And FanIn80, when the only thing you can do to refute what I say is tell me to go away, you've lost the argument.
You can clearly see safari/gamecenter/notes jump to the front
QuadCityImages: The iPhone was released three years ago... It was a game-changing innovation, definitely. But it isn't realistic to see incremental improvements now. Look at the iPod. After the classic was made we saw a number of small improvements. It got smaller, faster, thinner, colour, etc.
Part of what makes apple successful is their continuous improvement. We see a lot of small changes over time instead of huge leaps every 5,10 years like windows xp/vista/7
We've got a new OS now, by the summer there should be some new hardware to matc
But basically what I'm trying to say is that you're expectations aren't realistic. The iPhone came out three years ago. Let's see what incremental innovations they can bring before redefining a brand new category.
Last edited by Flames0910; 04-08-2010 at 08:49 PM.
With this announcement, any ideas about the iPod Touch development? I was thinking of purchasing one but I may just wait if they are rolling out early summer...
With this announcement, any ideas about the iPod Touch development? I was thinking of purchasing one but I may just wait if they are rolling out early summer...
Thoughts of a Touch refresh with the iPhone?
I think the Touch comes out with the iPod releases, which (I'm pretty sure) are staggered against the iPhone releases.
The Following User Says Thank You to FanIn80 For This Useful Post:
