Luge athlete killed in Whistler during training

[valo403]

Originally Posted by HOOT

Really? From what I have heard is the top lugers want to go from the top and the IFL/VANOC are the ones pushing to have it at the front launch area. They are playing it safe, imagine that. I'm sure it also doesn't have to do with the mental aspect of it or anything.

People want to point at the beams and how unsafe the track is but we could have watched luge for the next X amount of days, saw those beams every single run for 100's of runs and not said a thing. It takes something like to realize how freak an accident can be and you can't prevent them all.

But I can see you are just trying to be a dick so continue on believing what you believe and I'll take the experts opinion on it.

Nothing to do with trying to be a dick, just find it hilarious that so many people are just willing to accept an afternoon's worth of investigation as being thorough and reliable.

And as I've said repeatedly, there's video of 2 other athletes slamming into the upper portion of that wall. I don't believe that it takes a freak accident for a person to be elevated an additional 8-12".

[HOOT]

Originally Posted by valo403

Nothing to do with trying to be a dick, just find it hilarious that so many people are just willing to accept an afternoon's worth of investigation as being thorough and reliable.

Instead of what? Your thoughts on the matter? How much luge experience do you have? How long is a good enough time period for you? Is there like a set time limit that makes an investigation good?

I don't know there is just something in my mind saying that the IOC, IFL and/or VANOC would not continue on and put others in danger if they didn't feel a) this was a freak accident and b) they have fixed the problem and if for whatever reason it happens for a second time in the history of the sport they have done enough to prevent it.

But I'm sure three governing bodies would put lives in danger even if they knew it could happen again....right?

[valo403]

Originally Posted by HOOT

Instead of what? Your thoughts on the matter? How much luge experience do you have? How long is a good enough time period for you? Is there like a set time limit that makes an investigation good?

I don't know there is just something in my mind saying that the IOC, IFL and/or VANOC would not continue on and put others in danger if they didn't feel a) this was a freak accident and b) they have fixed the problem and if for whatever reason it happens for a second time in the history of the sport they have done enough to prevent it.

But I'm sure three governing bodies would put lives in danger even if they knew it could happen again....right?

I have no doubt the track is safe now, a lower start will greatly reduce speeds and g-forces and an actual barrier in the area has been added. I have no issue with the track as it will be used. My issue is with the track as it was.

As for the investigation, an afternoon worth of investigation followed by a statement that completely absolves the party doing the investigating is clearly not something that should just be accepted as the be all and end all.

[transplant99]

I would think if the lugers thought the track was to unsafe to compete they would not do so en masse and force any changes they thought necessary before taking to it once again. The fact they are not doing so tells me they think that although the track may be faster than most have seen, they dont believe there is some imminent danger to themselves.

[HOOT]

Originally Posted by valo403

I have no doubt the track is safe now, a lower start will greatly reduce speeds and g-forces and an actual barrier in the area has been added. I have no issue with the track as it will be used. My issue is with the track as it was.

As for the investigation, an afternoon worth of investigation followed by a statement that completely absolves the party doing the investigating is clearly not something that should just be accepted as the be all and end all.

Well the only people that seem to have a problem with the way the track was are the people watching the sport on TV. Why are the top athletes in the sport upset it is not going from the original spot? Do you think they would want that if they thought they were really going to be next?

Back to my question you skipped, if an afternoon is not long enough, how long is? The RCMP, IOC, IFL and VANOC were all involved in it. Do you think that these four parties are in together to blame the luger not the designer?

It's funny you read all these stories about this dangerous and fast track yet no one, I mean no one, mentioned turn 16 or those metal beams after that corner in one article or statement. Why do you think that is? Were they scared to voice their opinion or do you think that no one could have seen this coming?

[valo403]

Originally Posted by HOOT

Well the only people that seem to have a problem with the way the track was are the people watching the sport on TV. Why are the top athletes in the sport upset it is not going from the original spot? Do you think they would want that if they thought they were really going to be next?

Back to my question you skipped, if an afternoon is not long enough, how long is? The RCMP, IOC, IFL and VANOC were all involved in it. Do you think that these four parties are in together to blame the luger not the designer?

It's funny you read all these stories about this dangerous and fast track yet no one, I mean no one, mentioned turn 16 or those metal beams after that corner in one article or statement. Why do you think that is? Were they scared to voice their opinion or do you think that no one could have seen this coming?

1. The top athletes aren't in nearly as much danger of losing control on the track, that's why they are at the top. They interviewed the US luge broadcast team (which is made up of guys who are involved in luge, not some random NBC guys) and that's exactly what they said. The top 15 or so guys are going to be fine, the guys making up the rest of the field are the ones who were at risk of massive crashes.

2. There's no set time for an investigation, but do you honestly think one afternoon is enough time to come to a definitive conclusion? Seriously? I get that they had a compressed schedule to work with, and I think they've made the right adjustments, but that doesn't mean that more investigation shouldn't be done before the blame is placed solely on driver error. If there's a lawsuit, which there most certainly will be, a much more thorough review of the design and safety measures will take place. I'll take the results of that much more seriously.

3. I've already had this conversation with you, but I guess I have to do it again. It's not about what people saw coming, it's about what people SHOULD have seen coming. I don't know that this was something they should have seen coming, that's something that will come out in a more thorough review, but if it was the people responsible should be held accountable.

[HOOT]

Originally Posted by valo403

1. The top athletes aren't in nearly as much danger of losing control on the track, that's why they are at the top. They interviewed the US luge broadcast team (which is made up of guys who are involved in luge, not some random NBC guys) and that's exactly what they said. The top 15 or so guys are going to be fine, the guys making up the rest of the field are the ones who were at risk of massive crashes.

Okay so inexperience is a factor in someone crashing? So someone who is ranked 55th in the world last year out of 62 lugers would fall into that category? Could the luger himself, doing this for his whole life, not see that maybe pushing it to 100% he is putting himself in danger? I've been 21 before, I know what it is like to push myself when I was driving a car. I'd imagine it would be the same feeling racing for your country in the top event in the world.

2. There's no set time for an investigation, but do you honestly think one afternoon is enough time to come to a definitive conclusion? Seriously? I get that they had a compressed schedule to work with, and I think they've made the right adjustments, but that doesn't mean that more investigation shouldn't be done before the blame is placed solely on driver error. If there's a lawsuit, which there most certainly will be, a much more thorough review of the design and safety measures will take place. I'll take the results of that much more seriously.

Exactly more time will tell. If it comes back to say it was a design flaw I will eat my words but until than I have to assume that someone flying out of the track, again NEVER had happened before, is a freak accident until proven other wise.

3. I've already had this conversation with you, but I guess I have to do it again. It's not about what people saw coming, it's about what people SHOULD have seen coming. I don't know that this was something they should have seen coming, that's something that will come out in a more thorough review, but if it was the people responsible should be held accountable.

So you want every single freak accident to be taken into account when they are building something, and if that can't be guaranteed it shouldn't go ahead? This has NEVER happened before, how do you prepare for something that has NEVER happened before?

Can I go back and sue Toyota for my Uncle dying in 1984 because they didn't invent airbags by then? Who cares that he was drinking and driving and smashed into a oncoming car, they should have thought of that.

This is what it feel like, people wanted the IOC/IFL to think of every little tiny thing that could go wrong. You just can't do it, it's impossible to even try. If we waited for perfection we would never see another sporting even for the remainder of our lives.

[ricosuave]

Do they normally get up to that speed? I watched the video, and thought that he was absolutely flying. I dont remember other olympics where they had gotten up that fast, but I could be wrong...

[HOOT]

Originally Posted by ricosuave

Do they normally get up to that speed? I watched the video, and thought that he was absolutely flying. I dont remember other olympics where they had gotten up that fast, but I could be wrong...

Yes. Fastest time ever record in luge is 98MPH, where guys were getting up to 95.5MPH the other day.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by HOOT

Okay so inexperience is a factor in someone crashing? So someone who is ranked 55th in the world last year out of 62 lugers would fall into that category? Could the luger himself, doing this for his whole life, not see that maybe pushing it to 100% he is putting himself in danger? I've been 21 before, I know what it is like to push myself when I was driving a car. I'd imagine it would be the same feeling racing for your country in the top event in the world.

Exactly more time will tell. If it comes back to say it was a design flaw I will eat my words but until than I have to assume that someone flying out of the track, again NEVER had happened before, is a freak accident until proven other wise.

So you want every single freak accident to be taken into account when they are building something, and if that can't be guaranteed it shouldn't go ahead? This has NEVER happened before, how do you prepare for something that has NEVER happened before?

Can I go back and sue Toyota for my Uncle dying in 1984 because they didn't invent airbags by then? Who cares that he was drinking and driving and smashed into a oncoming car, they should have thought of that.

This is what it feel like, people wanted the IOC/IFL to think of every little tiny thing that could go wrong. You just can't do it, it's impossible to even try. If we waited for perfection we would never see another sporting even for the remainder of our lives.

Do you understand the concept of foreseeability? That's what this is about, freak accidents aren't foreseeable, that's sort of the meaning of the term. I'm not going to deem this a freak accident though, there were concerns about the track beforehand, and there were at least two athletes thrown into the top of that wall in the last couple of days. I'm not going to chalk up an 8-12" increase in elevation at contact with the wall as a freak accident that wasn't foreseeable right off the bat. Hence my desire for a more thorough review.

And your toyota example doesn't make any sense what so ever. Nobody is asking for something that doesn't exist to be installed.

[HOOT]

Originally Posted by valo403

I'm not going to deem this a freak accident though, there were concerns about the track beforehand, and there were at least two athletes thrown into the top of that wall in the last couple of days.

Well I guess myself and the whole luge community disagree with you about this being a freak accident or not. I guess for me when something that has NEVER happened before happens it's a freak accident.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by HOOT

Well I guess myself and the whole luge community disagree with you about this being a freak accident or not. I guess for me when something that has NEVER happened before happens it's a freak accident.

Interesting you should try to claim the luge community sides with you.

CTV just did a story on the track, and NOBODY in the luge or bobsled community had much good to say about the safety of the track. In fact, one of the Americans predicted a while ago that someone would die on this track.

[HOOT]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

Interesting you should try to claim the luge community sides with you.

CTV just did a story on the track, and NOBODY in the luge or bobsled community had much good to say about the safety of the track. In fact, one of the Americans predicted a while ago that someone would die on this track.

Can you point out a quote or clip that states they blame the track for the accident and that it wasn't a freak accident even if the track was dangerous?

Like I said there has been many stories on this track about how dangerous it is and so on yet NOBODY in ANY article I have seen mentions turn 16 or the metal beams on the side of the finish line. Why is that?

Being a fast, technical or dangerous track is nothing new to these athletes. Again, did this thing just open up a few days ago? Or years ago where plenty of lugers have done down?

Also you forget to mention in that same story they have a few of those same athletes who say "there are a FEW tracks that scare me..." few meaning there is more than one that pushes the limits of the athlete.

Isn't that the point of the games? To push the athletes.

Why are lugers upset of the move of the start? Just for fun or because they except the risks involved with their sport.

[Resolute 14]

Only a complete idiot would look at numerous questions on the safety of the track being made for months, the controversy surrounding the design existing for years, and then try to claim that the concerns about the safety of the track were unfounded.

Especially when an athlete is going home in a coffin.

[HOOT]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

Only a complete idiot would look at numerous questions on the safety of the track being made for months, the controversy surrounding the design existing for years, and then try to claim that the concerns about the safety of the track were unfounded.

Especially when an athlete is going home in a coffin.

So athletes had enough safety concerns but went down the track anyways? Please.

It is a fast track, no doubt about it, but having someone die was a freak accident. If not it would have happened more throughout the 1000's of runs over the past few years.

[Resolute 14]

Hopefully there are no more "freak accidents".

[HOOT]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

Hopefully there are no more "freak accidents".

Good edit.

Good day? How about good-bye?

[Resolute 14]

I just decided you weren't worth the infraction.

Not that it prevented you from behaving like a two year old in private messages.

[HOOT]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

I just decided you weren't worth the infraction.

Not that it prevented you from behaving like a two year old in private messages.

At least I tried to take it to PM instead of public forum like yourself. I guess I'm the two year old who tried to keep it off the forum, your the two year old who wants it all public so you can flex your internet muscles but calling people idiots.

[Resolute 14]

Hey, all I know is that an American luger predicted that someone would die on this track.

All I know is that many people have questioned the safety of this track from the day it was built.

All I know is that there were several crashes in training, and injuries.

All I know is that a man is dead, exactly as predicted.

Must have been a complete fluke.