Phaneuf,Sjostrom,Aulie traded to leafs for Hagman,Stajan,Mayers,White

[gargamel]

Beautiful Sunday morning:
Phaneuf traded...:
...to Toronto...:
...for Hagman, Stajan, Mayers and White: FFFFFFUUUUUUUUUU

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by seattleflamer

Initial reaction was shades of Gilmour for Leeman. Reflecting a little more, I hope this might be what puts us over the top NOW ie. Brett Hull for Ramage and Wamsley who were key to getting us over the hump in '89.

Except in this case the hump we're getting over isn't winning the Cup; it's making the playoffs and getting bounced in the first round.

[Pastiche]

Originally Posted by FlamesAllTheWay

One of the pundits on TSN said it best (and I paraphrase):

You don't trade a guy like Dion Phaneuf to shake things up or to get more offensive depth at forward. You trade him to get him out of town.

The guy was a cancer in the room. A distraction, and that was the driving force behind this trade. Everyone here knows he will become even better than he is now. Contend for the Norris. Likely be a franchise D-man somewhere. Play for Team Canada. It wont come as a suprise when it happens either. Yet, we traded him anyways. People can counter with "show me proof" all they want. This is something that has been lingering around this team for the past few seasons and never really goes away. A little more than, say, just a random Eklund blog post that quickly fades into oblivion. In that sense this trade becomes a bit of an addition by subtraction as well. Also lowered Phaneuf's trade value a bit... we had to throw in a good prospect along with Dion to make this happen.

Good return, IMO. We are a better team today than we were yesterday. Hagman and Stajan can pitch in with offence here and there. White has been playing great in Toronto this year. Second best D from what I understand. Cheap too. Biggest thing is that we now have options on the ice and off the ice, with regards to the salary cap. Sutter may finally understand that putting all your eggs into one basket and then hoping your bargain players overachieve may not be the best approach to building a team. Probably signals a bit of a shift in his whole managerial philosophy.

Very happy with this. I think we will start to see some positive change with this team as a result.

Good post. My thoughts exactly.

I think we are a better team today. If we keep Jokinen then we have really good depth at centre. Conroy wont play another game this season or possibly ever with the Flames.

We desperately needed a LW to play in the top six. As disappointing as Hagman as a 'name' may be he is a dependable top six player. The revolving door of Glencross, Moss, Conroy, Boyd just wasn't hacking it and was actually disrupting chemistry alot. The afformentioned players got away from the play that made their game good playing in a top six role and then had to readjust when they went down.

Finally, you can absolutely bet that the Sutter bros talked extensively about this trade and what they thought Phaneuf could bring to this team going forward. They DO NOT make this trade if they think Phaneuf helps this team win now AND in the future. I'm pretty sure that B. Sutter saw all he needed to see in Phaneuf and that his development -with this franchise at least- was running its course. The Sutters are not stupid, they addressed some key areas of weakness on this team by dealing from a position of strength and also through some addition by subtraction. Phaneuf just wasn't a 6.5 million dollar player and we had to get out from under that cap allotment to improve the makeup of the team.

Will this trade work out? Who knows. But you don't win championships by playing it safe all the time. There comes a point where you just have to roll the dice. Where you need to address issues with your team. Where you throw things at the wall and see what happens. I congratulate Sutter for having the bollocks to do a major shakeup. This team is loaded with superstar big time players. He didnt want a huge name coming back one for one with Dion he needed complimentary pieces to round out the team's jagged edges. I hope it works. I think Hagman, Stajan and White (in particular) are solid complimentary players to support our core.

In many ways its the model Vancouver has followed and that has brought them really good success. They are not loaded with superstars but are balanced with legitimate attack in their top four and top 6. Today we look alot more like that than a teetering top-heavy squad with no foundation.

Go Flames Go!

[Henry Fool]

Originally Posted by Itse

Just to comment on Hagman:

It's weird to hear all this inconsistency talk, considering that everytime I've seen him play for Team Finland, he's been an absolute stud. Yeah, not the greatest sniper you'll see, but total effort every shift, every situation, everywhere. He's basicly the prototype (among others) of why Team Finland has kept overachieving in the highest level (olympics/world cup): total commitment.

That said, I can totally understand why he hasn't been like that at the Leafs, and besides, age tends to mellow people down. Still, I think a lot people here will like Hagman.
[...]

He's done really well with the Leafs. I'm sure Burke wasn't looking to move him because he didn't deliver there. He did.

Some people have an odd view of him. Rogers on fan960 called him one-dimensional (although he didn't mean it in a disparaging way), for example, which isn't true at all. If anything, it's the consistency of his offense that might be a question mark, not his defensive responsibility.

Mark Spector takes it a little too far to the opposite direction, but he's closer to the truth:

And for Iginla, who desperately needed some talented forwards with whom to work, Sutter procured Stajan and left-winger Hagman, a player Flames fans will come to like immensely. He is like Jere Lehtinen-light -- the multi-faceted kind of player whose name came up last season when I was down in Dallas during the height of the Sean Avery fiasco.

The distraction that Avery had become, a Stars exec told us last year, was obscuring the fact that losing Hagman to Toronto as a free agent was becoming a far bigger loss than anyone in Dallas had anticipated. In the Stars dressing room, players were saying the same thing.

Hagman is a very good player -- very responsible defensively, priced well at $3 million for two more seasons after this. He is now 30, and gives Calgary the perfect mix of offence and defence needed to play the other wing with Iginla.

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/2010/..._dealing_dion/

[cyclone3483]

I still say there is no way we trade Phaneuf...what? Oh...nevermind. I had a strong feeling that Stajan, Hagman and White would be considered by Sutter if he looked at the Leafs. (others would be Stempniak and Ponikarovsky). I mentioned on another thread that perhaps Higgins was also one of the people Sutter might target. Only thing it says though is that I got lucky in my thinking AND I have as many insider connections as Eklund (zero). But did my thinking make it happen or did I just get lucky? Testing that by thinking that Elin Woods will be giving me a call once she dumps Tiger for good.

[Bertuzzied]

Wow what an eventful Sunday.

Program sales are going to set a record tonite.

[Doc Hudson]

Page 10 and soo much crap being posted, I'll take a day off of this.

[darklord700]

To All Dion Fans,

Based on how he had played and is playing now, will you still give him 6.5mil per?

Take away his hard hitting and big shot, is he even a decent D-man? He is out of position and relies mostly on his big shot that doesn't hit the net most of the time.

I'm sick of seeing him couldn't break out of the Calgary zone, many a time, holding the puck behind Calgary's net, only to be forechecked by the opposing winger. Regher must be sick of babysitting him for all those years.

Beside his physical prowess, I couldn't think of a thing I like about his game. Playing in the wide opened East might help him offensively but he's a D-man but playing in the Centre of the Universe will not.

I give Sutter a lot of credits for pulling a small name for big name trade. It's not easy to do for him. It is almost like giving up a 6 figure job at Encana to start your own business that unless you are sure you'll succeed, you (Sutter in this case) will not do it. That's why it's a good trade for us.

[sureLoss]

This just looks wrong:
http://tweetphoto.com/10172661

[DionPlett]

Originally Posted by darklord700

To All Dion Fans,

Based on how he had played and is playing now, will you still give him 6.5mil per?

Take away his hard hitting and big shot, is he even a decent D-man? He is out of position and rely mostly on his big shot that doesn't hit the net most of the time.

I'm sick of seeing him couldn't break out of the Calgary zone, many a time, holding the puck behind Calgary's net, only to be forechecked by the opposing winger. Regher must be sick of babysitting him for all those years.

Beside his physical prowess, I couldn't think of a thing I like about his game. Playing in the wide opened East might help him offensively but he's a D-man but playing in the Centre of the Universe will not.

I give Sutter a lot of credit to pull a small name to big name trade. It's not easy to do for him. It is almost like giving up a 6 figure job at Encana to start your own business that unless you are sure you'll succeed, you (Sutter in this case) will not do it. That's why it's a good trade for us.

That's why we won't win a cup with Darryl as GM or his bro as coach. They want guys like themselves in here, you know the down home,nice, country bumpkin type. Most elite athletes come with ego,arrogance and it seperates the winners from the losers. That's just the way it is. Dion has an identity that you can build a team around. And if people say he's a cancer than they should get rid of the people that have a problem or can't get along with him. And yeah, I would pay him the $6.5 Mil, he's worth it.

[Duke43]

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sport...rticle1450924/

[Fire]

This trade has the potential do go Gilmour on us for sure, but I am thinking removing Phaneuf from the dressing room should help the rest of the team.

Sutter, Just say no to Kotalik!

[IceMan]

Originally Posted by sureLoss

This just looks wrong:
http://tweetphoto.com/10172661

ugh. Sure is gonna be weird seeing him in blue that's for sure.

[FlamesAddiction]

The thing that really bothers me about the trade is that 3 of the 4 pieces don't have contracts past this season. Granted, White is an RFA so his options are limited and Mayers is ok as a rental. The thought of losing Stajan after 3 months bothers me though.

We do have Hagman for 2 more seasons, but the guy is 30. We can't expect more than what he has done already, and if anything, his production will probably decline a little. He is probably somewhere between Bourque and Glencross in ability and doesn't show his top 6 skill on a consistant basis. In the Sutter system, he will probably be a 15 to 20 goal guy.

Are the Flames a better team today? Maybe a tiny bit... hard to say. Can Hagman or Stajan do what what players like Jokinen or Glencross couldn't (ie find chemistry with Iginla)? Given how no one on our team has this season, I am not that confident that Hagman or Stajan are going to be the missing pieces. White is not better than Phaneuf... at the very best, White on his best night is comparable to Phaneuf on an average night.

Five years from now, this trade does nothing for us. And before people jump on and talk about how no contracts or short contracts are better than having players locked up for 5 years, you are kidding yourself. Free agent markets are pretty slim these days and competition high with the trend for players to sign long term.

[Flashpoint]

Originally Posted by darklord700

To All Dion Fans,
Based on how he had played and is playing now, will you still give him 6.5mil per?

He's 24. He hasn't reached his prime yet. Since D develop more slowly than forwards, I wouldn't expect to see it for at least another 2 years. When I fully expect him to be a marquee player, and the Flames to be viewing this transaction in the same light as the Gilmour multi-player deal.

[Netskot]

I don't like Dion leaving, but he should have never been given that much money. Once he reaches his potential, sure. But not now.

[darklord700]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

White on his best night is comparable to Phaneuf on an average night.

Five years from now, this trade does nothing for us. And before people jump on and talk about how no contracts or short contracts are better than having players locked up for 5 years, you are kidding yourself.

Beg to differ, this year Dion on his best night was decidingly average to me. What this deal does is we traded away "potential" for short term gains and cap space? If you are high on Dion, you won't like it.

Having player locked up for couple years means nothing if the player isn't very good, just ask Edmonton fans about their goalier who has a long term contract.

Of course, if you can lock up Ovie for a decade, that's a different story, but Dion is not Ovie. I think I have seen the best of Dion already, that's why I'm happy to see him go.

[868904]

Originally Posted by Itse

Just to comment on Hagman:

It's weird to hear all this inconsistency talk, considering that everytime I've seen him play for Team Finland, he's been an absolute stud. Yeah, not the greatest sniper you'll see, but total effort every shift, every situation, everywhere. He's basicly the prototype (among others) of why Team Finland has kept overachieving in the highest level (olympics/world cup): total commitment.

That said, I can totally understand why he hasn't been like that at the Leafs, and besides, age tends to mellow people down. Still, I think a lot people here will like Hagman.

About the trade overall, I think this just shows that Sutter wasn't kidding when he was talking about how hard it is to make midseason moves these days. You can scratch all of West as trading partners right from the start, as nobody on this side wants to give the Flames anything that would help them make the playoffs. (Except maybe Edmonton, but I think we can agree that wasn't happening.)

From the Eastern conference, nobody that's doing well and with a head on their shoulders would touch a Phaneuf-trade, because nobody has that kind of offenside depth, and nobody wants to risk taking in a rumoured cancer with a huge salary. Deal like that could ruin a team trying to make the playoffs.

There's only two team out of the playoff picture in the East: Carolina and Toronto. We don't know what Carolina offered for Phaneuf, but I'm not shocked that it wasn't better than what we got from Toronto. And say what want about Torontos plugs, that team has scored more goals than this team, and how sad is that...

Would people have been happier with Ray Whitney, Brandon Sutter and Tim Gleason cause I think that would have got the deal done with Carolina...

I'm kinda surprised Carolina wouldn't do that. Whitney would have returned to Carolina in the offseason (as Stajan might do for the Leafs).

Carolina just must be really high on Brandon Sutter or low on Phaneuf. Phaneuf seems like he'd be a really good fit in Carolina.

[KootenayFlamesFan]

Listening to Dreger's radio show now he said, paraphrasing, that reading the Calgary newspapers and web sites that the fans were crying and were all saying the Flames got fleeced.

Really? I see a lot of people questioning the trade, but crying? Getting fleeced?

[RedHot25]

Originally Posted by KootenayFlamesFan

Listening to Dreger's radio show now he said, paraphrasing, that reading the Calgary newspapers and web sites that the fans were crying and were all saying the Flames got fleeced.

Really? I see a lot of people questioning the trade, but crying? Getting fleeced?

I'm not sure yet, but can't say I am the biggest fan at the moment.