Suppliments

[united]

Originally Posted by Tron_fdc

I'm curious, how would creatine help with hockey? I play 3 or 4 days a week, so I would be interested to hear about it.

I am curious also. Any information, Azure, would be appreciated.

[HOOT]

Originally Posted by TheSutterDynasty

I've done some searching and managed to find a picture of Azure posting his weight loss and diet advice on CP.

Wow. Good job TSD for dropping the to that level in the argument. Why not try and prove him wrong with actual facts and studies, or are you 13 still?

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by burn_baby_burn

6'1", 185lbs sounds a lot like your prototypical hockey player.

6'1 185 lbs is not scrawny. It depends a lot on what % of body fat your going for. If your going for a ripped look at 8-10% body fat then that is not scrawny at all.
Here is a pic of a guys body who is 6'1 185lbs at 8.75% body fat, does that look scrawny?

[Komskies]

My favorite breakfast food lately is chocolate milk, 1 cup of frozen blueberries, a tablespoon of All-Bran buds, and a teaspoon of ground flax seed. Whiz it up in the Magic Bullet and you have yourself one hella healthy drink, albeit with a strange texture.

[bubbsy]

Originally Posted by worth

I'm not getting enough. I'm usually hungry by about 8am or so. And I'm usually hungry before I go to bed.

My dinner is probably 45 min - 1hr after the workout. I workout at home. I usually jump in the shower right after and then I have to cook myself dinner. So it takes a bit of time, unless I have some leftovers or something.

I was drinking coffee in the mornings, I think that was offsetting some of the hunger. When I don't drink coffee, I'm noticeably hungrier. I need to get some extra items into my daily diet to boost up the number of calories. After dinner I'm usually scrounging around in the cupboards to find something. Not good.

I would like to work out in the morning, but I'm at work at 6:30, and I don't really want to get up at 4:30 to work out. I'd have to go to bed at like 8:30pm.

I'm usually in bed at 10pm anyway, so I don't know if there is enough time for another meal before bed after my dinner. maybe something small, but I don't want to be digesting food while I try to sleep.

ya, here are my immediate recommendations:

Move that protein shake from 4pm to immediately after ur workout (keep in ur car, ur locker, you need to injest calories + protein ASAP). 1 hour is way too long.

Your breakfast needs to be huge. try a protien shake with milk in hte morning, meal replacement shake, if you just dont' have time to really make something that early.

i have trouble putting on weight myself, so i take a mass gainer as protien shake. I take one minutes after my workout, and one late night, before heading to bed. i don't eat damn near enough, and still have a tough time getting more than 2000 calories a day, but am able to have put on some definite lean muscle despite this.

[Azure]

By definition creatine is used to increase high intensity athletic performance. Which is exactly what hockey is.

There have been some studies that have proven creatine to increase muscle power and performance in high intensity workouts, but not necessarily in long endurance workouts.

It won't give you more stamina, or allow you to skate faster than the other guy if you haven't been able to skate faster than him before, but if used properly I've noticed that it will help you at the end of the shift, when you're tired but you're hemmed in your own zone. Just gives you the extra boost that helps you push yourself.

I've only used it for a few games now, and the difference is to me incredible. Towards the end of the game I still have very high energy levels and don't tire out so quickly.

Some people say it will just help you play harder for a longer period of time, some say it only helps when you're tired from a long shift, others say it gives you a serious boost, more explosive power etc, etc.

Try it, see if it works. I wouldn't play without it anymore.

There are also a lot of studies that show improved sprint performance with creatine supplementation. Hockey is often exactly that....a sprinting sport, especially if you play in a more competitive league.

And there are even better results in multiple sprint sessions, where you sprint, rest, sprint, rest, sprint, rest. Sort of like a hockey game. Shift, bench, shift, bench.

[HOOT]

Originally Posted by Tron_fdc

I'm curious, how would creatine help with hockey? I play 3 or 4 days a week, so I would be interested to hear about it.

In short Creatine increases the energy of your muscles and increases recovery time.

Creatine produces ATP (adenosine triphosphate) which provides energy to the muscles. Your ability to generate ATP depends on your supply of creatine. The more creatine you have, the more ATP you can make. Having the extra creatine in your body allows you to work your muscles to the maximum potential, letting you squeeze every bit out of them.

Taking creatine about an hour before your workout or game would give best results as creatine is quickly absorbed in the bloodstream and your muscles. Creatine is a supplment where if you don't use it, you lose it. I recommend taking creatine with a drink like Gatorade which has sugar and will help the creatine to your bloodstream quickly.

Creatine is not something you can take every morning thinking you will just get bigger or faster. You still need to train your body to do those things with the creatine in your system to see results.

Never take creatine with acidic drinks, don't take more than recommended and however the 'loading phase' is not necessary. It's also best not to take it with protein drinks, but not for safety reason, because the protein and creatine will be 'fighting' for the same muscle tissues and you may waste some of the creatine you consume.

I'd just do a quick google search read about the benefits and negative effects it can have. Creatine is probably one of the worlds most studied and tested training products in the world. It goes back years, and years and the side effects are very minimal if you stick within the guidelines of taking it, excessive use can lead to kidney problems. DO NOT buy cheap creatine, in my experience these are the types that give you upset stomach, headache, cramping ,etc. Spend the $10 more on a better product and skip all those hassles.

[User Name]

If you are looking for the basics, this is the order of supps in importance (my personal preference only)

1. DIET. I know not a supplment, but 100% of all supplments are useless if your diet sucks.

2. Multi-Vitamin - covers what you can't get enough of through diet.

3. Fish Oil... great for all sorts of things. cheap.

4. Protein - who really knows what the max you can absorb is, play around with numbers and see what gives you the best results. I aim for 2grams per pound of bodyweight. Which I dont hit, but I find if I overshoot, then I usually get adequate amounts.

5. Creatine. I would NOT add this until you have all the above items in line, and been training for a while. Its a great slump buster, so get all your "newbie" gains without creatine, then at your first plateu, take the creatine and you should bust through it easily.

Again, just my opinion.

[TheSutterDynasty]

Originally Posted by Bring_Back_Shantz

You did make the statement that most pro hockey players have a supprisingly high body fat %, do you have anything to back that up other than pictures of 2 pro hockey players, who actually look to be in pretty decent shape.

I said:

Originally Posted by TheSutterDynasty

Most hockey players have a surprisingly high body fat, since added weight to your frame will help balance and your sturdiness on the puck.

And to be fair to me, I did not specify what % people might expect them to have, and what % most of them do have. Some people pointed out that Kane looked flabbier than they expected. I'd say that sufficiently entails "surprisingly high body fat". At any rate, I'm not in the mood (ever) to google "shirtless hockey players", so I don't intend to present any further evidence on the matter. All I will say is that some of the guys I've seen - Brodeur, for one, and Donovan for another, could even be called "chubby". Kind of surprising given a lot of fans think these guys are the trimmest of the trim.

Originally Posted by HOOT

Wow. Good job TSD for dropping the to that level in the argument. Why not try and prove him wrong with actual facts and studies, or are you 13 still?

Haha. I don't know if you've been following but Azure and GreenTeaFrapp conveniently ignored all the facts, so I figured I'd stoop to their level. Pretty spot on I'd say.

And by the way, some key things you should know about creatine:
-It "augments" only the first ~10 seconds of high intensity physical activity; it has a very specific purpose!
-You're paying a lot for very little
-It will likely inhibit your own phosphocreatine synthesis! This means if you stop taking it you'll likely see a bigger decrease from your norm than the increase you saw from taking it
-It can cause muscle cramping and dehydration
-When used properly in the right conditions (of which few exist) it may give a slight edge. This is definitely worth it for athletes like 100 meter sprinters, or olympic weight lifters.

[TheSutterDynasty]

If you saw Steve Mason on the beach with his shirt off, would you guess he's a professional athlete?

Although with his play these days he's not much of one.

[Nage Waza]

I have used creatine before, large quantities actually. Some people claim to have a benefit from being a regular user of it. I can talk about loading creatine, which is using it in massive quantities (you can go look it up) in order to somehow force your body to store water which somehow gives you more power and energy. I was lifting 210 like I was doing my 135 warm up sets. I gained about 10-15 pounds in a week after loading for about five days. Sure, you pee away the 10-15 pounds, but if you were a gym rat like I was you also lifted an immense amount of weight during the month period. I lifted my max bench, squat and curl while in the post loading phase of the creatine. I eventually flushed all the water out of my system, but I was still strong from all the weight lifting I was doing. I only recommend this to those that are serious power lifters or really want to get big and are already on their way. I have no idea if it was safe or not, but I do know that the creatine is not as bad as the dude eating big macs. I would also recommend this for someone trying to get over their 'plateaus'.

Nowadays, most people simply ingest a modest amount of the stuff daily for a slight energy boost. I used to drink so much in one sitting that I would get dizzy from drinking it too quickly. It gave me gross farts as well!

[HOOT]

Originally Posted by TheSutterDynasty

I said:
And by the way, some key things you should know about creatine:
-It "augments" only the first ~10 seconds of high intensity physical activity; it has a very specific purpose!

10 seconds is a VERY long time when you put it into terms of hockey shift. It's not like you get 10 seconds worth a day.

-You're paying a lot for very little

Paying a lot? What is a lot? You can get 1kg of creatine for $40-50, which works out to be about 200 servings, costing someone about $0.20-0.25/serving.

I'd say from the benefits it is well worth the money and much, much cheaper than trying to get creatine from natural sources like red meat.

-It will likely inhibit your own phosphocreatine synthesis! This means if you stop taking it you'll likely see a bigger decrease from your norm than the increase you saw from taking it

Couldn't disagree with this guess any more. This may be your personal opinion however I never seen any research showing this will happen to someone.

-It can cause muscle cramping and dehydration

This can happen if you don't drink enough water. You will find you are more thirsty than normal and make sure you can drink lots of water, especially for the first while.

-When used properly in the right conditions (of which few exist) it may give a slight edge. This is definitely worth it for athletes like 100 meter sprinters, or olympic weight lifters.

Again I disagree about the 'few exist' comment because it is not rocket science. And it is worth it for hockey players, it is actually one of the few sports it has good results because of the extended energy when needed.

Creatine when taken in moderation has very few side effects and is one of the most research health products in the last 20 years. The major side effects come to those are over use the product.

[TheSutterDynasty]

I gave a good link before.

http://www.acsm.org/Content/Navigati...reatine_Rt.pdf

Although Cr supplementation exhibits small but significant physiological and performance changes, the increases in performance are realized during very specific exercise conditions. This suggests that the apparent high expectations for

performance enhancement, evident by the extensive use of Cr supplementation, are inordinate.

That pretty much sums it up; according to the article, the hype for creatine as seen in this thread is at least somewhat uncalled for.

Originally Posted by HOOT

Paying a lot? What is a lot? You can get 1kg of creatine for $40-50, which works out to be about 200 servings, costing someone about $0.20-0.25/serving.

One of the posters in this thread couldn't afford to have omega-3s in their diet because of cost, so yes it means something. And you aren't factoring in loading servings. So, couple those costs with it's limited use, as the article highlighted, no, for most it likely isn't worth it.

Originally Posted by HOOT

Couldn't disagree with this guess any more. This may be your personal opinion however I never seen any research showing this will happen to someone.

Umm... "guess"? You obviously haven't reviewed any research then:

Important to the discussion of this report, Cr ingestion has been shown to reduce endogenous Cr synthesis... likely by the down-regulation of the rate-limiting enzyme amidinotransferase (115, 116).

Originally Posted by HOOT

I'd say from the benefits it is well worth the money and much, much cheaper than trying to get creatine from natural sources like red meat.

I have never heard of anyone trying to get extra creatine from just their diet, nor do I think anyone would ever try.

Originally Posted by HOOT

Again I disagree about the 'few exist' comment because it is not rocket science. And it is worth it for hockey players, it is actually one of the few sports it has good results because of the extended energy when needed.

There's no ubiquitous "worth" of creatine for anyone. It has it's use in the certain events as highlighted in the article. Whether it helps playing hockey is not for you or I to say.

[HOOT]

Originally Posted by TheSutterDynasty

Umm... "guess"? You obviously haven't reviewed any research then:

Any research? This is one article there have been thousands of studies on creatine which show very little side effects, compared to results. Most people complain of cramping or stomach aches which are usually causes by not enough water and not using it correctly.

[Tron_fdc]

Well I'm gonna see for myself. I picked some up yesterday, and I started taking it last night (before my hockey game). I have another game today, we'll see how it goes.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by Tron_fdc

Well I'm gonna see for myself. I picked some up yesterday, and I started taking it last night (before my hockey game). I have another game today, we'll see how it goes.

Make sure you are drinking lots of water!

[burn_baby_burn]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

6'1 185 lbs is not scrawny. It depends a lot on what % of body fat your going for. If your going for a ripped look at 8-10% body fat then that is not scrawny at all.
Here is a pic of a guys body who is 6'1 185lbs at 8.75% body fat, does that look scrawny?

Are you asking me specifically if I feel this guy looks scrawny? I don't think I ever implied that 6'1" at 185lbs was scrawny at all. You see builds like that on numerous pro hockey players along with corner backs in the NFL.

[cheevers]

Alright question for all you fitness people out there, Im not sure if I can get any help on this but here goes. I get terrible cramping around my ribs when running no matter what I eat or when I eat. Recently I was at the Running Room and saw an anti-cramping powder that your supposed to take prior to running. (Sadly I can not recall the name, nor find it on their website)

My question is has anyone heard of or used this before? And if so did it work?

Thanks

[3 Justin 3]

Originally Posted by cheevers

Alright question for all you fitness people out there, Im not sure if I can get any help on this but here goes. I get terrible cramping around my ribs when running no matter what I eat or when I eat. Recently I was at the Running Room and saw an anti-cramping powder that your supposed to take prior to running. (Sadly I can not recall the name, nor find it on their website)

My question is has anyone heard of or used this before? And if so did it work?

Thanks

I always get cramps in the rib region. I just figured it was because I am out of shape. That is probably the case, haha.

[wooohooo]

I think it could be a variety of things. Either you're not running right, the shoe's are bad, or you probably don't keep at a good pace. When I did a little bit of running, my coach always instructed us on good breathing techniques and pacing. Helped a lot.