2010 NFL Off Season Thread

[rubecube]

I should also add that I think the Eagles will keep Westbrook until training camp to see what he has left. With 2010 likely being an uncapped year, there won't be any penalty for cutting him after training camp if doesn't have anything left in the tank.

[burn_baby_burn]

Originally Posted by Sylvanfan

A bit Off Topic, but I think it's Thursday night at 7:00 Mountain time they are airing the first two parts of a documentary called Full Color Football on NFL Network. It was a 5 part documentary that originally aired on Showtime about the history of the AFL all the way through the merger with the NFL. I'm going to try and DVR it, although Thursday is usually a war with the wife when it comes to that.

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-hall-o...ory-of-the-AFL

Episode one already aired last Thursday. I PVR'd it but haven't had time to watch it yet.

[The Ditch]

I'm thinking if Bates is going to be the offensive coordinator in Seattle I like that, makes Carroll coming in a bit less of a shock.

[Sylvanfan]

Originally Posted by burn_baby_burn

Episode one already aired last Thursday. I PVR'd it but haven't had time to watch it yet.

I notice that they have 2 back to back on my program guide, hopefully it's Part 1 & Part 2.

In an odd way, Al Davis is sort of like Elvis in that he has two different distinct versions, you have 60's to early 80's Al Davis who is pretty sharp and builds up a great football team. Now you have old Al Davis who's skin is literally falling off him and is making a lot of crazy decisions (reports that Tom Cable will be axed in the San Francisco Chronicle today). Just like Skinny Elvis, and fat Elvis.

[burn_baby_burn]

Originally Posted by Sylvanfan

I notice that they have 2 back to back on my program guide, hopefully it's Part 1 & Part 2.

For sure, I think NFL Network will replay it a couple times. As for Al Davis, he is obviously senile. He was great in his day, but that day has long since passed. Despite his senility, the Raiders still had a better record than the Chiefs.

[FlamingLonghorn]

Tranny,

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/201...10/mmqb/1.html

This is why I think the Carroll hire is a bad thing. 1 out of 10 celebrated college coaches ever had a playoff win.

Carroll could do it, but like Dungy said "Most college coaches find out it's a lot harder to coach rich 25-year-olds than it is poor 19-year-olds." Carroll has to find a QB too. And if it's Leinart I don't see his tenure lasting long.

[browna]

Originally Posted by Sowa

Tranny,

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/201...10/mmqb/1.html

This is why I think the Carroll hire is a bad thing. 1 out of 10 celebrated college coaches ever had a playoff win.

Carroll could do it, but like Dungy said "Most college coaches find out it's a lot harder to coach rich 25-year-olds than it is poor 19-year-olds." Carroll has to find a QB too. And if it's Leinart I don't see his tenure lasting long.

That all said Carroll was in the NFL for years before and dealt with professionals and their attitudes, and are not quite as green as a Barry Switzer or most of that other list, in making the jump.

Also, he'll have more control and say over the players he brings in, as he's used to at USC, and which most college coaches making the jump have no say over.

The article says Allen doesn't want to give one man the control. That was the thought when Holmgren was GM/Coach/personnell guy, and got stripped of GM duties in the Superbowl year. I think after how Allen saw how the last structure (dis)functioned, that he has no problem in once again giving one guy the keys...they will hire a GM to do the day to day duties, but, like Shanahan has in Washington, Carroll will have final say over roster decisions.

Lastly, not sure where Lienart comes into this. Sure, he played there under Carroll. But Bates, the OC, contemplated the Bears OC position because he was in Denver when Cutler was. To think that SEA is getting Leinart (and would only be as a backup, Hasselbeck has one more year as the day in and day out starting QB) doesn't have much more of a chance then SEA getting Cutler or any of the QB's Bates coached with the Jets prior to that.


Anyways, it is a risk for sure to give out that responsibility. It certianly is out of left field but given the control he has again in SEA and the past time in the league, Carroll's not going to be struggling to make the transition back IMO.

[FlamingLonghorn]

Originally Posted by browna

That all said Carroll was in the NFL for years before and dealt with professionals and their attitudes, and are not quite as green as a Barry Switzer or most of that other list, in making the jump.

Also, he'll have more control and say over the players he brings in, as he's used to at USC, and which most college coaches making the jump have no say over.

The article says Allen doesn't want to give one man the control. That was the thought when Holmgren was GM/Coach/personnell guy, and got stripped of GM duties in the Superbowl year. I think after how Allen saw how the last structure (dis)functioned, that he has no problem in once again giving one guy the keys...they will hire a GM to do the day to day duties, but, like Shanahan has in Washington, Carroll will have final say over roster decisions.

Lastly, not sure where Lienart comes into this. Sure, he played there under Carroll. But Bates, the OC, contemplated the Bears OC position because he was in Denver when Cutler was. To think that SEA is getting Leinart (and would only be as a backup, Hasselbeck has one more year as the day in and day out starting QB) doesn't have much more of a chance then SEA getting Cutler or any of the QB's Bates coached with the Jets prior to that.


Anyways, it is a risk for sure to give out that responsibility. It certianly is out of left field but given the control he has again in SEA and the past time in the league, Carroll's not going to be struggling to make the transition back IMO.

But, he wasn't good his last time in the league either. He was handed a good Parcells team and made it worse every year. Switzer didn't have to rebuild he had everything already.

[InstantDeath]

Originally Posted by burn_baby_burn

Wow, lots of rumors starting to flood in.


49ers looking to trade both first round picks.

Um. Where the hell did you hear this one? Definitely false.

[Sainters7]

Originally Posted by Sowa

Carroll has to find a QB too. And if it's Leinart I don't see his tenure lasting long.

I doubt it'll be Leinart, as word is Warner's going to retire at the end of this year. Seattle has the 6th over-all pick, and with McCoy, Clausen, Bradford, Tebow and Snead, they should be able to snag themselves a decent QB for the future.

I don't understand why he left USC though. Career job he could probably hold until he's 70 if he wanted, in L.A. on the beach, with a perennial national contender, to a place now where he could be unemployed in 2 years. I never get why college legend coaches make the jump like that.

[InstantDeath]

NFL to NCAA = Success.
NCAA to NFL = Fail.

Its pretty cut and dry.

[The Ditch]

Originally Posted by InstantDeath

NFL to NCAA = Success.
NCAA to NFL = Fail.

Its pretty cut and dry.

It's funny how people are saying things like this. Not to rag on you specifically but it's absurd to say something like that. To be honest you never really know what is going to happen until he gets his first season. Most coaches started in the NCAA to begin with anyways, and the fact he has coached in the NFL before in multiple capacities.

I'm not saying he's going to do well, I will say I think he'll post a better record than Mora but to claim he will fail because he had success in the NCAA is ridiculous.

I mean, people aren't incapable of learning from their previous mistakes, it's really all up in the air here with Carroll but to say NCAA to NFL is fail is not cut and dry.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by InstantDeath

NFL to NCAA = Success.
NCAA to NFL = Fail.

Bill Callahan and Mike Sherman disagree.

[FlamingLonghorn]

Originally Posted by rubecube

Bill Callahan and Mike Sherman disagree.

Can't write off Sherman until next year. He inherited a group of players that were not at all the right fit for his systems. He had big slow d-men when his defense is supposed to be fast. Next year he will have Juniors he recruited and the progression should be apparent. If not, than they get rid of him. College programs usually take 3-4 yrs to turn around unless it's one of the elite programs that gets to pick it's recruits.

Callahan was terrible. He ignored the traditions of a great football program. Wouldn't allow old players into the locker room, etc... He was an idiot. But he is a good Running Backs coach on the Jets.

Al Groh is another flop of NFL to NCAA.

[InstantDeath]

Originally Posted by The Ditch

It's funny how people are saying things like this. Not to rag on you specifically but it's absurd to say something like that. To be honest you never really know what is going to happen until he gets his first season. Most coaches started in the NCAA to begin with anyways, and the fact he's coached in the NFL before in multiple capacities.

I'm not saying he's going to do well, I will say I think he'll post a better record than Mora but to claim he will fail because he had success in the NCAA is ridiculous.

I get what youre saying – And I was definitely generalizing…I actually think Carrol has a better chance than most, just because USC is run very much like a pro team in terms of playing style...



But as far as college coaches coming directly to the NFL – lets go down the recent list:


Bobby Petrino, Atlanta Falcons - Abject Failure
Lane Kiffin, Oakland Raiders - Abject Failure
Rich Brooks – St. Louis Rams - Fail.
Dennis Erickson – 49ers/Seahwaks - Disastrous Failure
Steve Spurrier – Redskins - Hilariously Disastrous Failure
Barry Switzer – Cowboys - Was really a crappy coach, inherited a ridiculously talented team.
Jimmy Johnson - Cowboys - Really the only genuinely successful coach who came directly from college to the NFL.
Tom Coughlin - Tough time with the Jags, but turned it around with the NYG.


The bottom line here is that its really a different universe coaching in the NFL than it is to coach in college - and if I was a GM, I would never, ever hire a coach directly out of college as my HC. Maybe as a coordinator, fine - but not to run the team.

Its actually a bit like Brent Sutter going to the NHL - its a lot different dealing with grown men than it is dealing with kids.

[Bobblehead]

Carroll spend 15 years in the NFL coaching ranks, including 4 years as a head coach. So I'm not sure this is a case where you can assume he will fail. He has been there before.

[InstantDeath]

Originally Posted by Bobblehead

Carroll spend 15 years in the NFL coaching ranks, including 4 years as a head coach. So I'm not sure this is a case where you can assume he will fail. He has been there before.

Good point - but its been a while for him - and sometimes being the big fish can screw with your version of reality. (In this case he is a whale shark in a swimming pool - king of LA, basically)

I still think he has a good chance of suceeding - but I also thought Steve Spurrier would be able to turn the Skins' around.

[Bobblehead]

Originally Posted by InstantDeath

Good point - but its been a while for him - and sometimes being the big fish can screw with your version of reality. (In this case he is a whale shark in a swimming pool - king of LA, basically)

I still think he has a good chance of suceeding - but I also thought Steve Spurrier would be able to turn the Skins' around.

Well I hope he sucks. His teams regressed in his first chance at HC. And a weak Seahawk era would be just what the Niners need.

[Sylvanfan]

http://twitter.com/ADAM_SCHEFTER

A fair bit of activity today

Tom Heckert to leave the Eagles to become the Browns GM for Mike Holmgren

Romeo Crennel to become Chiefs defensive co-ordinator in a move that shocks everyone in the football world.

And recently the Dolphins relieve their defensive co-ordinator Paul Pasqualoni of his duties.

Other stuff has the Bills getting permission to talk to Jets OC Brian Schottenheimer for their head coaching gig as well as Cardinals offensive line coach Russ Grimm.

[burn_baby_burn]

Originally Posted by InstantDeath

Um. Where the hell did you hear this one? Definitely false.

ESPN Insider. It was clearly stated as a rumour. Or did you miss that?