Is Calgary a racist city?

[TheU]

Originally Posted by justafan

Wow. As a First Nation person, I will make sure I quit observing your posts.

Unless your in a gang or a bum pushing a shopping cart around downtown full of cases of beer in Winnipeg, probably not talking to you. Nor do I care to be quite honest... the reality is what it is.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by justafan

Wow. As a First Nation person, I will make sure I quit observing your posts.

How do you even react to idiots like that? I mean I realize this comment was on the internet, but I know that lots of people make equally ######ed comments towards natives in real life. If it was me I'd have trouble not staying composed, and lots of punches would be thrown.

[TheU]

Originally Posted by flameswin

How do you even react to idiots like that? I mean I realize this comment was on the internet, but I know that lots of people make equally ######ed comments towards natives in real life. If it was me I'd have trouble not staying composed, and lots of punches would be thrown.

Just gotta ask, what is ######ed about my post? Are you suggesting the native population in Winnipeg is generally productive and not involved in gang and other criminal activity? Have we as a society become so sensitive that a stereotype, no matter how true, is still some how evil and shouldn't be talked about?

[justafan]

Originally Posted by flameswin

How do you even react to idiots like that? I mean I realize this comment was on the internet, but I know that lots of people make equally ######ed comments towards natives in real life. If it was me I'd have trouble not staying composed, and lots of punches would be thrown.

Well I am female and haven't fought anyone. I know I should not have responded. I have long heard that Winnipeg is pretty racist. The way he feels is the way people in large cities in the u.s feel when they see gangs and poverty etc with Black and Hispanic people. Its the way it is. Education and empathy could help, but many people are beyond that or maybe too stupid.

[flip]

Originally Posted by 7uongo

were you and your friends visible minorities?

I'm about as white as they come but they could easily be mistaken for members of 50 cents posse.

[7uongo]

Originally Posted by TheU

Just gotta ask, what is ######ed about my post? Are you suggesting the native population in Winnipeg is generally productive and not involved in gang and other criminal activity? Have we as a society become so sensitive that a stereotype, no matter how true, is still some how evil and shouldn't be talked about?

Unbelievable...

Truely, this is the very definition of racism

do you even consider yourself a racist?

[TheU]

Originally Posted by 7uongo

Unbelievable...

Truely, this is the very definition of racism

do you even consider yourself a racist?

Answering my question with another question?

If the of natives in Canada commit more crime than any other ethnic or racial group, have higher suicide rates, drug and alcohol abuse issues etc etc... should we just ignore this and chastise those who point it out as being racist? Does it make the problem easier to ignore by simply stating people who bring it up are racists?

Have you been to a reserve? With your comments I highly doubt it. I've been to 2 reserves in Manitoba and 1 in Alberta, and they all share the same qualities. Natives as a group in Canada are slowly being killed by a lack of integration with society and you want to hand them another government cheque to continue poisoning themselves, all under the guise of being morally superior. How dare people point out the obvious; we should treat the natives in Canada like most people treat bums according to you. Simply avert your eyes and continue on with your life

[flip]

Originally Posted by TheU

Unless your in a gang or a bum pushing a shopping cart around downtown full of cases of beer in Winnipeg, probably not talking to you. Nor do I care to be quite honest... the reality is what it is.

Originally Posted by 7uongo

Unbelievable...

Truely, this is the very definition of racism

do you even consider yourself a racist?

Based on the post by theU that I quoted I wouldn't say he's a racist. Discriminating against people of a lower social class has nothing to do with race.

What he appears to be saying is that if he lived in city x where the lower class population was dominated by redneck, mullet wearing, confederate flag flying trailer trash he'd also dislike that segment of the population, even if they were white.

That isn't racism, but it is a form of discrimination.

As someone who grew up in Regina I can understand why natives are perceived that way by Winnipegers like TheU. Hell I know several natives from Regina that hate other natives because they feel that 90% of natives are a disgrace to their people.

I think most educated people realize that poverty is what creates crime and such, not being black, hispanic or native. However, to deny the fact that crime and poverty aren't prevalent among native populations in most of Canada is naive.

[TheU]

Just for the record I'd like to chime in that I don't believe genetics can pre dispose someone to crime.

[flip]

Originally Posted by TheU

Answering my question with another question?

If the of natives in Canada commit more crime than any other ethnic or racial group, have higher suicide rates, drug and alcohol abuse issues etc etc... should we just ignore this and chastise those who point it out as being racist? Does it make the problem easier to ignore by simply stating people who bring it up are racists?

Have you been to a reserve? With your comments I highly doubt it. I've been to 2 reserves in Manitoba and 1 in Alberta, and they all share the same qualities. Natives as a group in Canada are slowly being killed by a lack of integration with society and you want to hand them another government cheque to continue poisoning themselves, all under the guise of being morally superior. How dare people point out the obvious; we should treat the natives in Canada like most people treat bums according to you. Simply avert your eyes and continue on with your life

The problem is that most people, including our government, most of our society or even natives themselves, have no interest in improving the plight of our native population.

To merely have disdain for them because they are victims of years and years of government mismanagement is silly. Not to mention the fact that for years and years natives have been negelcting their own health and wellness.


In reality the native problem in Canada is so deep and effed up it is unlikely that anything in the next generation is going to fix it. It is going to take literally generations to change native poverty, crime and culture.

[TheU]

While I understand and somewhat agree with your point flip, it's hard to feel too much sympathy for a group of people who are literally turning Winnipeg into a gangland war zone. It sucks that the government are being enablers for the natives but responsibility can't be shed by their population simply because of some government mismanagement, as you call it

[justafan]

Originally Posted by flip

The problem is that most people, including our government, most of our society or even natives themselves, have no interest in improving the plight of our native population.

To merely have disdain for them because they are victims of years and years of government mismanagement is silly. Not to mention the fact that for years and years natives have been negelcting their own health and wellness.


In reality the native problem in Canada is so deep and effed up it is unlikely that anything in the next generation is going to fix it. It is going to take literally generations to change native poverty, crime and culture.

It a deep problem and native people do not agree always with each other on what to do. However, there are people out there working within the law trying to make a difference. Glib comments about pushing carts and waiting for cheques doesn't really help anyone. My father was ashamed of his race and I get upset, for him, when I read or hear comments like some of the U's. I love reading about one of our players, Bourque, who tries to give back and obviously tries to be an example to the youth.

[flip]

Originally Posted by TheU

While I understand and somewhat agree with your point flip, it's hard to feel too much sympathy for a group of people who are literally turning Winnipeg into a gangland war zone. It sucks that the government are being enablers for the natives but responsibility can't be shed by their population simply because of some government mismanagement, as you call it

Well sympathy isn't going to fix the problem. Extensive rehabilitation and re-education of thousands of natives is going to fix the problem.

They quite literally need to change their culture from the ground up. It is a proven fact that crime is higher among low income people. It is also proven that drug use, suicide and alcoholism are all passed on from parents.

Knowing these things, the only way to change natives predisposition to crime, violence and alcohol abuse etc is to stop the cycle.

But how do we even begin to do that? The problem is so far deeply entrenched that like I said it will literally take generations to even have a glimmer of hope of rehabilitating them.

I'm not saying you need to be sympathetic to a group of people who clearly have not done themselves any favors in the last 20 years or so but there is a small but strong segment of the native population who want to at least try to take initiatives to try and end the cycle.

I guess all I'm saying is that having a low opinion of natives isn't going to help. Then again, to all the people bashing you, I dare you to go hang out at 11pm on a Friday night about a block from Taylor Field in Regina for a couple of hours. I'd like to see what your posts are like after that. Something tells me you wouldn't be so defensive.

[TheU]

Originally Posted by justafan

It a deep problem and native people do not agree always with each other on what to do. However, there are people out there working within the law trying to make a difference. Glib comments about pushing carts and waiting for cheques doesn't really help anyone. My father was ashamed of his race and I get upset, for him, when I read or hear comments like some of the U's. I love reading about one of our players, Bourque, who tries to give back and obviously tries to be an example to the youth.

A glib comment to you was my reality growing up in Winnipeg and having a cottage 30 mins north of a native reserve. Shopping carts full of cases of beer is something I saw on the news, not something I just created in my mind.

Or how about in the reserve of scantebury there was a gas station with a restaurant. They had their urinal pucks go missing. The problem? Natives were eating them for the alcohol content.

Move along, nothing to see here I guess.

As far as you being native and the problems of being native being very raw and real to you and your family, for that I am sorry and I do emphasize. It can't be easy seeing other natives having such problems and not dealing with them very well. It doesn't change the reality of the situation, however, and your personal attacks on me and labeling me as racist don't advance your cause

Originally Posted by flip

Well sympathy isn't going to fix the problem. Extensive rehabilitation and re-education of thousands of natives is going to fix the problem.

They quite literally need to change their culture from the ground up. It is a proven fact that crime is higher among low income people. It is also proven that drug use, suicide and alcoholism are all passed on from parents.

Knowing these things, the only way to change natives predisposition to crime, violence and alcohol abuse etc is to stop the cycle.

But how do we even begin to do that? The problem is so far deeply entrenched that like I said it will literally take generations to even have a glimmer of hope of rehabilitating them.

I'm not saying you need to be sympathetic to a group of people who clearly have not done themselves any favors in the last 20 years or so but there is a small but strong segment of the native population who want to at least try to take initiatives to try and end the cycle.

I guess all I'm saying is that having a low opinion of natives isn't going to help. Then again, to all the people bashing you, I dare you to go hang out at 11pm on a Friday night about a block from Taylor Field in Regina for a couple of hours. I'd like to see what your posts are like after that. Something tells me you wouldn't be so defensive.

Would you agree that the best way to start helping natives now is to reform how the reserve system works and get people off them? I can't imagine how a reserve system can continue to be functional with all we know now

[justafan]

Instead of Taylor Field, which obviously sounds like a scary place that would help a person feel confident about their feelings towards natives, go to the University of Calgary, Red Lodge, and meet some elders and councellors that help all the native students who attend there. Regina has many students attending school too.

[TheU]

Originally Posted by justafan

Instead of Taylor Field, which obviously sounds like a scary place that would help a person feel confident about their feelings towards natives, go to the University of Calgary, Red Lodge, and meet some elders and councellors that help all the native students who attend there. Regina has many students attending school too.

Whoosh.

[justafan]

Originally Posted by TheU

A glib comment to you was my reality growing up in Winnipeg and having a cottage 30 mins north of a native reserve. Shopping carts full of cases of beer is something I saw on the news, not something I just created in my mind.

Or how about in the reserve of scantebury there was a gas station with a restaurant. They had their urinal pucks go missing. The problem? Natives were eating them for the alcohol content.

Move along, nothing to see here I guess.

As far as you being native and the problems of being native being very raw and real to you and your family, for that I am sorry and I do emphasize. It can't be easy seeing other natives having such problems and not dealing with them very well. It doesn't change the reality of the situation, however, and your personal attacks on me and labeling me as racist don't advance your cause






Would you agree that the best way to start helping natives now is to reform how the reserve system works and get people off them? I can't imagine how a reserve system can continue to be functional with all we know now

I get your reality and I believe you. Some peoples realities were having their families killed by German S.S. but I hope they were able to move on and not hate all Germans. Some people lived this horror of poverty and alcholism and were able to stop the cycle (native or otherwise.) You may have a point about the reserves. Thats were they were put, with other ememy tribes to probably get rid of them. Remote areas, wanting them to farm when they were hunters, free and easy promotion of the ol' fire water and you get a receipe for genocide. With what you point out and the highest suicide rate amongst young people in Canada, maybe there is no point. I hope not.

[justafan]

Originally Posted by TheU

Whoosh.

It late. Did I miss something? I thought Taylor Field must be a place where native people on drugs or in gangs hung out? I thought his point was that, once you see these people, you could understand why a person despised native people. I pointed out there are place where there is hope.

[TheU]

Originally Posted by justafan

It late. Did I miss something? I thought Taylor Field must be a place where native people on drugs or in gangs hung out? I thought his point was that, once you see these people, you could understand why a person despised native people. I pointed out there are place where there is hope.

I think, and I could be wrong, is there's more from column A than column B. but now I'm feeling like a giant ###### so I'm just going to go away for now from this thread

[CaramonLS]

Originally Posted by justafan

I get your reality and I believe you. Some peoples realities were having their families killed by German S.S. but I hope they were able to move on and not hate all Germans. Some people lived this horror of poverty and alcholism and were able to stop the cycle (native or otherwise.) You may have a point about the reserves. Thats were they were put, with other ememy tribes to probably get rid of them. Remote areas, wanting them to farm when they were hunters, free and easy promotion of the ol' fire water and you get a receipe for genocide. With what you point out and the highest suicide rate amongst young people in Canada, maybe there is no point. I hope not.

That little comment in there.

The U isn't being racist. If you think for one second that he hates you for some odd reason for being native you're dead wrong. Actually if you think most of Canada hates you, you'd be wrong too. Most people who meet the average native who lives in suburbia and has a steady job and doesn't hate that person. You'd be seriously kidding yourself if you think a lot of doors are shut to you just because you're native.

The first step in curing an illness is to diagnose the problem. Something which I see TheU more willing to do than yourself.