Good News for Supporters of the Return of the Winnipeg Jets! - Page 10 - Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community

BlackAce · 12-09-2009, 12:59 PM

... The hair pulling and slapping is the best

HOOT · 12-09-2009, 01:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SeeBass

...your mother is already over.

Sorry didn't realize you were 12 years old. I feel bad now.

JiriHrdina · 12-09-2009, 01:06 PM

I don't want to go back and see who started all this - but please knock it off.

BlackAce · 12-09-2009, 01:08 PM

I wanted to see the girls get into shin kicking and scratching...

Jets4Life · 12-09-2009, 01:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

And this has always been the issue for me. I'm actually not trying to cut down the Jetsowner campaign, but rather, I am wanting to be convinced. So far, the argument has always come down to economic reality vs. emotional platitudes. I can get behind the emotional aspect - I'd love to see the Jets return. But I want to be convinced of the economic realities, and I want to be convinced that it can work long term.

So far, all we've seen is the ridiculously pie-in-the-sky Jetsowner.com numbers, which are easily picked apart becuase they have no basis in reality.

Just for the record, I am no way associated with Jetsowner.com.

Locke · 12-09-2009, 01:36 PM

I will say this though, should someone pull the trigger on this (in my opinion) ill-advised idea, and it happens, now would be a pretty good time.

Basically, I've said it before that the people pining for the 'Glory Days' of the Winnipeg Jets were essentially out of luck and that no matter what happened, should a new NHL team ever be placed in Winnipeg the odds of them retaining the 'Iconic' name of the Jets was slim to none.

They would more than likely become "the Winnipeg Something Else's."

Much in the same vein as Minnesota didnt regain the 'North Stars,' Atlanta didnt regain the 'Flames,' Colorado did not regain the 'Rockies.' This is all because someone else owns the rights to these Franchise names much like the Coyotes own the 'Jets.'

However, with the NHL in control of the Coyotes they might be more willing to part with the name and Franchise rights than would an independent owner.

octothorp · 12-09-2009, 01:45 PM

The biggest problem facing the Jets is risk. I have no doubt that the Jets could work in the existing building, if they're well run, compete at a high level on the ice, and get excellent fan support, the economics just might work. If it does, the owners are looking at a very slim profit. However, if any of these things go wrong, there's the potential for losses exceeding $10 million annually. It's not only finding an owner willing to accept such a condition: it's convincing the league to let you try it despite the financial risk.

I look at the Alouettes as an interesting comparable: they play in a venue smaller than the average attendance of most of the other teams in the league, and the league is salary-capped. As well, this was a team that folded in the 1980s because their economic model became unworkable. But the Alouettes are run almost to perfection, are unmatched in terms of results, and have the advantage of being able to move to a 50,000 seat venue for playoff games. And yet they still make only a modest profit. And because the stakes are so much smaller in the CFL, if things collapse for them, it's only a modest loss.

Comparing the CFL to NHL is like comparing apples to oranges, of course. But it does illustrate how the small-venue formula can work if run perfectly. It also demonstrates just how small the margin of error is for the Jets. I'd love to see them return to Winnipeg, but the amount of risk right now just makes it such a dangerous proposition both for owners and for the league.

Resolute 14 · 12-09-2009, 02:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jets4Life

Just for the record, I am no way associated with Jetsowner.com.

I know. It's just how I describe the collective. I've gone around with more than a few Winnipegers with their heads in the clouds.

HotHotHeat · 12-09-2009, 03:06 PM

Winnipeg sure shot themselves in the foot by building a 15 000 seat stadium. Where was their foresight? Is there an opportunity to expand capacity at the MTS Centre? Is seating capacity even the largest issue at hand?

Just trying to keep a legitimate discussion going...

ricosuave · 12-09-2009, 03:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HotHotHeat

Winnipeg sure shot themselves in the foot by building a 15 000 seat stadium. Where was their foresight? Is there an opportunity to expand capacity at the MTS Centre? Is seating capacity even the largest issue at hand?

Just trying to keep a legitimate discussion going...

no, I dont think they can expand at all - IIRC the MTS center is built into the former Eatons building, and they had to go with a limited footprint - great for asthetics and history, not so much for meeting a demand of 15000+

BlackAce · 12-09-2009, 03:10 PM

Is there some reality where they might be able to rip the roof off the little stadium and add a little something or just rearrange seating and luxury boxes... I thought I heard once that it was an option

And what is the NHL looking for exactly? IMO a full 15000 seat rink in Winnipeg is better than 5000 in Phoenix or Tampa or Florida... But I am just some dude in Calgary

burn_this_city · 12-09-2009, 03:22 PM

Awesome thread. Sorry I missed out on chiming in during the height of the meltdown.

Locke · 12-09-2009, 03:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by burn_this_city

Awesome thread. Sorry I missed out on chiming in during the height of the meltdown.

You missed a good time...

HOOT · 12-09-2009, 03:52 PM

Jets fans are worse than Canuck fans.

HotHotHeat · 12-09-2009, 04:43 PM

Lol, Jets 'fans' is a weird term to see used.

Textcritic · 12-09-2009, 04:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlackAce

...And what is the NHL looking for exactly? IMO a full 15000 seat rink in Winnipeg is better than 5000 in Phoenix or Tampa or Florida... But I am just some dude in Calgary

I think the real weakness in this argument is that such a situation serves as a handicap that impedes any potential for growth for one market that would probably need it more than anyone. The ceiling for ticket prices in Winnipeg is likely lower than in any other Canadian NHL city, and in the evnt that League-wide revenues continue to inflate, the market in Winnipeg becomes progressively smaller. As octothorp pointed out, there is virtually no margin for error. It may be "better" than one or two of the NHL's present markets, but it makes no sense to move a NHL team from one bad market to an only slightly better one. Nor does it make any sense to expand to a market where the threshold for success is so tenuous.

GreenTeaFrapp · 12-09-2009, 05:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HOOT

Jets fans are worse than Canuck fans.

It's a good thing there are so few of them. But wouldn't a better comparison for Jets fans be Coyote fans since their numbers are a lot more similar then the Jet-Canuck comparison?

Locke · 12-09-2009, 05:39 PM

the2bears · 12-09-2009, 05:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Textcritic

Nor does it make any sense to expand to a market where the threshold for success is so tenuous.

That's exactly it. The planets must all line up for a franchise in Winnipeg to be successful. And they have to stay lined up. It seems to me there's no room for error, and even if things all worked out in the most optimistic manner possible, the chances of success are still small.

TheU · 12-09-2009, 08:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HOOT

Jets fans are worse than Canuck fans.

I have a suggestion for you, but it would get me banned or at least an infraction. Use your imagination