Good News for Supporters of the Return of the Winnipeg Jets!

[stampsfaninwinnipeg]

Originally Posted by HOOT

How do you figure you have the corporate support or even the population to support a team?

I live in Winnipeg dude. Great city but I have done security at both the Bombers stadium and the MTS for 3 years. Fans won't come out for more then 40 games. Arena is way to small. I would love nothing more but until they build an NHL size rink and have someone to buy all the tickets you need to watch the Moose and the Loser Bombers. Go Stamps and Flames.

[SeeBass]

Originally Posted by HOOT

Again, no you don't. Just because you follow me on a forum doesn't mean you actually know me. But you are right you probably know everything about me. I'm done with you, you aren't worth the text on the screen.

Yes I know the way you post, yah i meant you personally give your head a shake of course I meant on line.

But dont worry I know you will be back because you never let the last word go.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by SeeBass

I wouldn't wish it on anybody.

Why don't you take a seat over here and talk about it

[speede5]

LEAVE THE JETS ALONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[HOOT]

Originally Posted by stampsfaninwinnipeg

I live in Winnipeg dude. Great city but I have done security at both the Bombers stadium and the MTS for 3 years. Fans won't come out for more then 40 games. Arena is way to small. I would love nothing more but until they build an NHL size rink and have someone to buy all the tickets you need to watch the Moose and the Loser Bombers. Go Stamps and Flames.

And I would love to see more Canadian teams in the NHL as well but business wise it makes no sense. It is easy to fill a football stadium when you have 8 games and tickets are $12, but when you need to find people to fill $200 seats 41 times a year it becomes a bit tougher.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Homer_J

I'm not completely convinced it could work in Winnipeg, but I'm hopeful. Even though I always hated the Jets I would love to see an NHL team back in Manitoba.

There are currently 48 suites in the MTS Centre. I know there were at least 90 on the waiting list as of February 2009. The number of suites can be expanded, and the owners have discussed expansion, even without the NHL.

When talking attendance numbers, it's tough to compare the numbers of the Southern teams. How many of those tickets are given away or sold for $10-$25? In Phoenix's case, the actual gate numbers since the lockout have been anywhere from 2,000-5,000 less than the "paid" attendance. I can't imagine that ever happening in a strong hockey market.

Most importantly, the majority owners of the Moose and MTS Centre are Mark Chipman and David Thomson. The Thomson's happens to be the richest family in Canada. If he comes to the conclusion that Winnipeg can support an NHL team, I'll take his word for it.

______________________________________________

I feel for Jets4Life so I've gathered some info that could help his arguments.

Here's some census numbers I grabbed from another forum and posted in a previous Jets thread:


Corporate presence in Winnipeg compared to other Canadian cities:

Corporate head offices; Top 500 largest publically traded companies (2008):

Winnipeg: 12
Edmonton: 7
Ottawa: 7
Quebec City: 2
Hamilton: 1

Corporate head offices; Companies of all sizes (2005):

Edmonton: 157
Winnipeg: 129
Ottawa: 101

Corporate head offices; total employment (2005):

Winnipeg: 6 890
Ottawa: 4 667
Edmonton: 3 428

Winnipeg’s key economic indicators comparison 1994-2008 (since the jets left):

population:
1994: 676 000
2008: 733 000

population growth:
1994: 1600
2008: 10 000

average house value:
1994: $84 000 (Canadian average $158 000) 53% of the canadian average
2008: $191 000 (Canadian average $275 000) 70% of the canadian average

total value of building permits issued:
1994: $300 million
2008: $ 1 billion

housing starts:
1994: 972
2008: 3400

average household income:
1994: $43 000 (Canadian average $49 000) 87%
2008: $72 000 (Canadian average $70 500) 102%

unemployment rate
1994: 10.4% (Canadian average 9.5%)
2008: 4.3% (Canadian average 6%) (3rd in Canada)

total employment
1994: 318 000
2008: 400 000

retail sales:
1994: $4.3 million
2008: $9.3 million

GDP per capita
1994: $21 100 (Canada $26 700) 79% of the canadian average
2008: $44 500 (Canada $46 400) 96% of the canadian average

2008 economic growth 3.9% (third among Canadian cities)




Canada's 800 largest corporations (according to Financial Post):

Winnipeg: 32 + 3 subsidiaries = 35
Edmonton: 25 + 1 subsidiary = 26
Quebec City: 16 + 2 subsidiaries = 18
Ottawa: 15 + 1 subsidiary = 16

http://www.financialpost.com/magazine/fp500/list.html

This is a good post that I fear was lost amid the emotional outbursts of one or two apparently unstable Jets fans, and I believe it needs a bump.

As impressive as the statistical information is, I would like to see how Winnipeg compares across the board with all of the present NHL markets. The city and its has definitely grown against the national average since 1994, but let's be honest: I expect that every NHL city in Canada scores well above the mean in virtually every category. Winnipeg might be more suited to sustaining a NHL franchise than in the past, but this does not mean that they are capable of doing so in the present NHL market.

[stampsfaninwinnipeg]

Originally Posted by HOOT

And I would love to see more Canadian teams in the NHL as well but business wise it makes no sense. It is easy to fill a football stadium when you have 8 games and tickets are $12, but when you need to find people to fill $200 seats 41 times a year it becomes a bit tougher.

Agree 100%. It would be great to see but so would a unicorn!

[SeeBass]

Originally Posted by valo403

Why don't you take a seat over here and talk about it

I could use a good cry....lol

But seriously guys, you have to have it happen to you to get it.

It is like calling down a guy who is dead.
Perhaps Locke should have done a little more research first.
You can say what you want about the Jets, if it is accurate but when you also say they where never any good...I lost it

I should have just defended that point alone.

I apologize to the people who got caught in the crossfire

It is a no win conversation

Sincerly...a fellow Flames fan

[valo403]

Originally Posted by SeeBass

I could use a good cry....lol

But seriously guys, you have to have it happen to you to get it.

It is like calling down a guy who is dead.
Perhaps Locke should have done a little more research first.
You can say what you want about the Jets, if it is accurate but when you also say they where never any good...I lost it

I should have just defended that point alone.

I apologize to the people who got caught in the crossfire

It is a no win conversation

Sincerly...a fellow Flames fan

But.... they never were any good. Not in the NHL.

[Prototype]

Don't forget Jets faithful, there was a hard push in the early to mid 90s for the Flames to move to Portland. I don't know if it was corporate dollars, new ownership, fan outcry, what have you, but some how they stayed, and we're thankful for that.

Had they moved, I wouldn't be searching for any glimmer of hope on the internets, then jumping on my new favourite team's website, stating blank fact of the return of the team I once loved, with nothing more than verbal diahrea.

I understand that Jets fans take any shot that their passion or fandom personally. I would hate to have the Flames ripped from the city the way they were taken out of Winnipeg... but it happened, and years later, there's still not a better situation for a return, otherwise they would have never left.

My problem with this thread is not the die hard hope Jets fan has for the return of their beloved franchise (I still hold out hope for the return of the '88s), but it's the lack of debate other than a VHS recording, and some statements. You've been called out for proof time and time again, and if anyone is egging on this thread, its you and and your lack of proof.

Now we've had Nazi references, HOOT attacks, people trying to insult Locke (trust me, it doesn't work... it only makes him stronger). This could go down as one of the worst in CP history.

And not for the lack of passion and hope from Jets fans... more for the lack of fight, and maybe that's the whole problem in the first place, why you don't have your fanchise anymore... you had the wrong people fighting.

I miss the old Jets/Flames games... takes me back to 'malfunctions at the junctions', good ol' Ed Whalen, seeing something as amazing as the white out, etc. But you're not going to convert Flames fans into believers with opinion. If you're not going to show the facts... current facts... then I don't know why this thread isn't locked.

I would hate to see you guys get a franchise... and then have to lose it again. And then have CP Nation give you one big 'I told you so'.

Oh, and if someone says "It's probably going to cost between $50-$100", I'm not going to get overly excited if I only have $50.02 in my bank account. Just saying.

[SeeBass]

Originally Posted by valo403

But.... they never were any good. Not in the NHL.

I believe the quote was EVER not just in the NHL

Once again for the record I do not believe the NHL coud survive under the current model in Winnipeg

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by Prototype

My problem with this thread is not the die hard hope Jets fan has for the return of their beloved franchise (I still hold out hope for the return of the '88s), but it's the lack of debate other than a VHS recording, and some statements. You've been called out for proof time and time again, and if anyone is egging on this thread, its you and and your lack of proof.

And this has always been the issue for me. I'm actually not trying to cut down the Jetsowner campaign, but rather, I am wanting to be convinced. So far, the argument has always come down to economic reality vs. emotional platitudes. I can get behind the emotional aspect - I'd love to see the Jets return. But I want to be convinced of the economic realities, and I want to be convinced that it can work long term.

So far, all we've seen is the ridiculously pie-in-the-sky Jetsowner.com numbers, which are easily picked apart becuase they have no basis in reality.

[speede5]

Originally Posted by SeeBass

Once again for the record I do not believe the NHL coud survive under the current model in Winnipeg

It's actually too bad, IMO the more Canadian teams the better. I would love to see the sport expand into Winnipeg, Quebec, Hamilton, but it will be a long time coming. There would need to be a serious crash in the salaries and team profits, and that doesn't appear likely anytime soon.

Speaking of expansion, (new thread?) is there even enough talent out there to support anymore teams?

[SeeBass]

Originally Posted by HOOT

Let's be honest here you know nothing about me or irony. Keep up the good work.

Relax Shaun

[Northendzone]

As a former resident of Wpg I'd love to see a team back there as it would likely represent an additional 10 or more points per year that the flames could extract from another divisional opponent.

i have given a similar exhibit to a friend who is convicned that there will be a team back in Wpg:

MTS seating capacity 15,002
'Dome seating capacity ~19,000

Salary Cap - $56,000,000

56,000,000/19,000/41 = average price per ticket of $72 per regular season game

56,000,000/15,002/41 = average ticket price of $91 per regular season game

Personally I find decent tickets here Calgary to be expensive, and I beleive that I am making about 20% to 25% more in salary than I would be making if I were still in Wpg.

With all things being equal, Wpg would need to charge on average 26.0% more for thier tickets than Calgary would. Of course wpg could opt to go for a cheaper team (arouhnd the payroll floor) to even the playing field; however, after a few years folks would get frustrated with paying so much per game to watch what would likely be a losing team.

If I have the incorrect current salary cap number I aplogoize, but I guess it is an irrelevant number as the relationship would be same. I also realize that there iare both more expenses and revenue streams that I am accounting for, but to me this simple comparasion still make sense.

[HOOT]

Originally Posted by SeeBass

Relax Shaun

Congrats on learning how to use the search feature.

And you accuse me of trying to get in the last word. Pathetic.

[SeeBass]

Originally Posted by HOOT

Congrats on learning how to use the search feature.

And you accuse me of trying to get in the last word. Pathetic.

I didnt say I was done
I see your word is is worthless

why do you keep responding....pathetic

[HOOT]

Originally Posted by SeeBass

I didnt say I was done
I see your word is is worthless

why do you keep responding....pathetic

Ya true. Well when you are done stalking me, let me know. Pretty scary that to prove a point someone would spend 30 minutes searching the site to find out my real name. Yikes! If you want some pictures for your spank bank keep looking you freak.

[BlackAce]

A good chick fight is always good to watch...

[SeeBass]

Originally Posted by HOOT

Ya true. Well when you are done stalking me, let me know. Pretty scary that to prove a point someone would spend 30 minutes searching the site to find out my real name. Yikes! If you want some pictures for your spank bank keep looking you freak.

Dance puppet!! dance!!....LOL

you know it only takes 5 seconds to find your name

I dont need pictures your mother is already over.