Living together before marriage

[mikey_the_redneck]

Originally Posted by flamesfever

Perhaps it may be beneficial to soften your stance on marriage...and sit down and have a heart to heart talk with the father, laying all your cards on the table.

Soften your stance? Noooooooo!
It sounds to me like rubecube has his mind made up about marriage. It's his choice and there is 100% nothing wrong with it.

We are all brought up in this culture with the belief that one must get married with kids, and to do anything different is shameful and unacceptable....... Bull! The institute of marriage is a giant fail and has disastrous consequences for both participants when it does.....for men especially......and that is basically a 50/50 chance of happening. You don't need a legal document to have a relationship with another person.

So when DOES rubecube get to visit the girlfriends family and share a bed with her? When they are 30, 40 years old? They could still be un-married at that time........
I say nip this behavior in the bud now rubecube!

[Locke]

Originally Posted by yads

Sounds like OP posted this, expecting everyone to be on his side to validate his position.

No. Look, he knows that the 'No Marriage' isnt a popular opinion or position, but thats him. He knows it, she knows it and he knows that most parents probably arent going to be on board with that.

At the same time though, I think society has to be a bit more open minded, just because they arent married doesnt mean that they arent meant for each other or that their relationship is meaningless. Many feel that Marriage is meaningless except for someone who is a 33rd level bureaucrat because all it does it drown people in a sea of legalese and create a financial and social burden on people.

Depends on the person/people in question though, its all a matter of personal preference.

That said, knowing both of these people as I do, I dont think rubecube is 'meant' for anyone. He, like me, enjoys a lifestyle that is hard to love if you're not the one living it. I dont know how my own GF puts up with it, showing up at all hours of the night, drunk or in various stages of intoxication/incarceration, not to mention the long spells of unemployment...

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by Locke

That said, knowing both of these people as I do, I dont think rubecube is 'meant' for anyone. He, like me, enjoys a lifestyle that is hard to love if you're not the one living it. I dont know how my own GF puts up with it, showing up at all hours of the night, drunk or in various stages of intoxication/incarceration, not to mention the long spells of unemployment...

Ah yes...the ol' 5 AM stumble through the door after you left your phone at home by accident.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by mikey_the_redneck

Soften your stance? Noooooooo!
It sounds to me like rubecube has his mind made up about marriage. It's his choice and there is 100% nothing wrong with it.

We are all brought up in this culture with the belief that one must get married with kids, and to do anything different is shameful and unacceptable....... Bull! The institute of marriage is a giant fail and has disastrous consequences for both participants when it does.....for men especially......and that is basically a 50/50 chance of happening. You don't need a legal document to have a relationship with another person.

So when DOES rubecube get to visit the girlfriends family and share a bed with her? When they are 30, 40 years old? They could still be un-married at that time........
I say nip this behavior in the bud now rubecube!

This. I come from a divorced household and watched the fighting between my parents leave them, and me and my sister, drained emotionally and financially.

[Winsor_Pilates]

This isn't about beds and hotels, it's about respecting her family, their house and their traditions.

Sleeping separately for 3 days will have no long term negative effect on you, while going to a hotel could have a huge long term negative effect on your relationship with him and worse, the relationship between the dad and daughter.

You're the guy going after his daughter and it's your responsibility to try and earn his respect first. He should give you respect back, but it's not an even playing field and you owe him 1 up.
Man up, put some effort into getting along with her dad and realize the importance of not causing a rift between the dad and daughter.

[burn_this_city]

Originally Posted by rubecube

Ah yes...the ol' 5 AM stumble through the door after you left your phone at home by accident.

You forgot to put accident in quotes.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by Winsor_Pilates

This isn't about beds and hotels, it's about respecting her family, their house and their traditions.

Sleeping separately for 3 days will have no long term negative effect on you, while going to a hotel could have a huge long term negative effect on your relationship with him and worse, the relationship between the dad and daughter.

You're the guy going after his daughter and it's your responsibility to try and earn his respect first. He should give you respect back, but it's not an even playing field and you owe him 1 up.
Man up, put some effort into getting along with her dad and realize the importance of not causing a rift between the dad and daughter.

You don't think I've been doing this for the past two years? I've made every effort to try and get to know the guy and show him I respect him and is daugther, but I'm not permanently in his debt. Furthermore, if I don't plan on getting married then he needs to deal with it because it's mine and my girlfriend's relationship - not his.

[flamesfever]

Originally Posted by Locke

No. Look, he knows that the 'No Marriage' isnt a popular opinion or position, but thats him. He knows it, she knows it and he knows that most parents probably arent going to be on board with that.

At the same time though, I think society has to be a bit more open minded, just because they arent married doesnt mean that they arent meant for each other or that their relationship is meaningless. Many feel that Marriage is meaningless except for someone who is a 33rd level bureaucrat because all it does it drown people in a sea of legalese and create a financial and social burden on people.

Depends on the person/people in question though, its all a matter of personal preference.

That said, knowing both of these people as I do, I dont think rubecube is 'meant' for anyone. He, like me, enjoys a lifestyle that is hard to love if you're not the one living it. I dont know how my own GF puts up with it, showing up at all hours of the night, drunk or in various stages of intoxication/incarceration, not to mention the long spells of unemployment...

Sounds like you need a good wife to make a man of you.

[rubecube]

This is also a culmination of issues, not just a one-off. He apparently has a problem with me not coming for Sunday dinners because I use Sundays as my day to unwind, drink, gamble, and watch football. Should I give that up too just to appease him? I'm not going to live my life the way my girlfriend's dad wants me to. I'm going to live it how I want to live it.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by flamesfever

Sounds like you need a good wife to make a man of you.

I imagine puberty will take care of that.

[yads]

Originally Posted by Locke

No. Look, he knows that the 'No Marriage' isnt a popular opinion or position, but thats him. He knows it, she knows it and he knows that most parents probably arent going to be on board with that.

I wasn't referring to his position on marriage as I don't think that was the dilemma/question. I was referring to the fact that almost everyone in the thread has replied that he should bite the bullet and just sleep on the couch, rather than make a big stink and get a hotel room.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by flamesfever

Sounds like you need a good wife to make a man of you.

Thanks, but no thanks, I kind of like my life, and I plan on living it while I can. Theres plenty of time to be old, theres a very limited amount of time to have fun.

Originally Posted by rubecube

I imagine puberty will take care of that.

Go take your suppositories old man!

Originally Posted by yads

I wasn't referring to his position on marriage as I don't think that was the dilemma/question. I was referring to the fact that almost everyone in the thread has replied that he should bite the bullet and just sleep on the couch, rather than make a big stink and get a hotel room.

Thats because most of us are cheap!

[yads]

Originally Posted by mikey_the_redneck

We are all brought up in this culture with the belief that one must get married with kids, and to do anything different is shameful and unacceptable....... Bull! The institute of marriage is a giant fail and has disastrous consequences for both participants when it does.....for men especially......and that is basically a 50/50 chance of happening. You don't need a legal document to have a relationship with another person.

Divorce rates peaked in the 80s and currently sit at 38% in Canada. Also 20% of the divorces are 2nd and subsequent marriages being dissolved. Divorce rates also dramatically fall off after the 4th year.

[yads]

Originally Posted by Locke

Thats because most of us are cheap!

Touche

[TheyCallMeBruce]

Meh, I always say you inherit what comes with the girl, including parents. If the parents are hostile towards you, nothing you can do about it. You can put in the effort to communicate with them, but ultimately at the very end, if her parents are a certain way and won't change, you're pretty much stuck with them, for better or worse.

So whatever choice you decide to make (go to hotel, or sleep on couch), just remember you'll be stuck with that choice and the ripple effect it has on her family, so long as you're still with the girl.

When I date a girl, I always try to look at the various extensions of her life. Then, I ask myself, "can I live with this?"

[Muta]

Originally Posted by TheyCallMeBruce

When I date a girl, I always try to look at the various extensions of her life.

Low-cut shirts and a great rack will do that.

[Cowboy89]

Originally Posted by rubecube

This. I come from a divorced household and watched the fighting between my parents leave them, and me and my sister, drained emotionally and financially.

Not getting married sounds like a plan to avoid all that. However the law, or should I say 'common law' thought of people like you ahead of time. Heck in Alberta if you've lived long enough together you get the emotional and financial drain all the same as if you just went out and got the piece of paper. It's just that doing things your way makes life with traditionalist people like your father in common-law more difficult.

[RedMileDJ]

I haven't read all the replys in the thread, but I'm gonna weigh in based on the original first post.

1. That is HIS little girl. Not yours. No matter how long you've been dating. In his eyes NO ONE is good enough for her.

2. There are separate rules for his little girl and his son that has girls stay over. It sucks...but that's the way it is.

3. It's HIS home. He is King of the castle here.

4. He is MARRIED. So asking his wife and him to not stay in the same bed at your place is garbage. In his eyes he is at a higher level then you because he has entered into marriage, and you've made it quite clear that you don't believe/support it. Which is fine, but in his eyes (again) he is at a higher level because he is married.

Sorry Rube...I'd say stay away from confrontation and just sleep on the couch.

When my Wife and I were 3 years into dating we went and visited my folks on Vancouver island. We were not living together, but my father insisted that I sleep in one room and she sleep in another. I didn't like it, but it's HIS house HIS rules. I was told it would be a different story if we were engaged. Oh well.

I say respect the guy Rube, and rather than causing a posible rift between him and his little girl, just stay on the couch. Don't make a big deal of it...and enjoy the couch.

Sometimes we need to make sacrifices for the people we love.

[MacDaddy77]

I don't get the "it's just a piece of paper" argument to not getting married.

Every woman grows up picturing thier wedding day and it's my opinion that guys who use this are being totaly selfish towards what 99.9 % of the women out there want, they all want the "big day" and if it's "only a piece of paper" then what's holding you back from giving the women you love 1 day to be all about her! (and a little about you!!!).

By saying you never want to get married you are asking her to sacrifice something she has probably wanted her entire life. Why is your preferance more important than what she may want.

Let me finish by saying that I don't know you or your gf so it may be that she really doesn't want to get married but I think it might be that she loves you and is willing to sacrifice being married to just be with you.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by Cowboy89

Not getting married sounds like a plan to avoid all that. However the law, or should I say 'common law' thought of people like you ahead of time. Heck in Alberta if you've lived long enough together you get the emotional and financial drain all the same as if you just went out and got the piece of paper. It's just that doing things your way makes life with traditionalist people like your father in common-law more difficult.

It's not quite as cut and dry as you make it sound, but you're pretty much right. I actually have a huge problem with that because it can very easily be exploited and abused, but that's an entirely different debate.