Paul Haggis renounces Scientology

[Hack&Lube]

He's renounce the church of scientology but has he renounced scientology?

There are a lot of "Free scientologists" who still believe in the wacky insane religion, but practice outside the organized church...much like what happens in many other religions.

Most people can't give it up so easily.

[Fleury2005]

Everyone agrees scientology is a joke. It is hardly worth discussing anymore. You just feel silly for the odd schmuck that still gets sucked in.

[Bagor]

Originally Posted by MattyC

so yes by definition it is a religion

In the US yes .... in France .... no.

A timely report.

A French court has convicted the Church of Scientology of fraud, but stopped short of banning the group from operating in France.
Two branches of the group's French operations and its leader in France have been fined, reports say.
The case came after complaints from two women, one of whom said she was pressured into paying more than 20,000 euros (£18,100) for expensive products.
France regards Scientology as a sect, not a religion.
Prosecutors had asked for the group's French operations to be dissolved and more heavily fined, but a legal loophole prevented the court from taking these extra measures.
'Commercial operation'
Instead, a judge ordered the Church's Celebrity Centre and a bookshop to pay a 600,000 euro fine.
Alain Rosenberg, the group's head in France, was handed a two-year suspended jail sentence and fined 30,000 euros, the report said.
Other leading members of the group were also fined.
Unlike the US, France has always refused to recognise Scientology as a religion, arguing that it is a purely commercial operation designed to make as much money as it can at the expense of often vulnerable victims, the BBC's Emma Jane Kirby reports from Paris.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/8327569.stm

[Yeah_Baby]

Hail Xenu!

[JohnnyB]

Yeah, I also wish people would stop calling this a religion. It's much fairer to describe it as it is done in that article there

a purely commercial operation designed to make as much money as it can at the expense of often vulnerable victims

The more people refer to it as a religion the more legitimation it gets in the eyes of the witless or ignorant. It's really the kind of thing that would be far better to be stamped out.

[T@T]

Originally Posted by JohnnyB

Yeah, I also wish people would stop calling this a religion. It's much fairer to describe it as it is done in that article there

The more people refer to it as a religion the more legitimation it gets in the eyes of the witless or ignorant. It's really the kind of thing that would be far better to be stamped out.

What makes other religion different?

[Boblobla]

Originally Posted by T@T

What makes other religion different?

Oh, here we go...

[Phaneuf3]

Originally Posted by T@T

What makes other religion different?

Well, there's a ton of different religions out there. I would say it differs greatly from Jainism or Buddhism in that regard but since I know what you're saying, lets just compare it to Christianity/Catholicism.

In the Catholic church you are free to come and go as you please. You can renounce your faith at any time without fear of physical harm from the church.
In the Catholic church any handing over of money is done purely at your discretion. Money changing hands is not a requirement of you receiving the teachings, sacraments, etc. You are not pressured to do so and certainly not to the point of your own ruin.
In the Catholic church its teachings are not secret and copyright and only revealed to you once you pay them large sums of money.
In the Catholic church you are not cut off from your family and friends.
In the Catholic church a significant portion of the money collected is intended to help the poor, hungry and needy.

Say what you will about the dogma, the effectiveness of their efforts, etc, etc. There is a huge difference in the intentions and the outcome of their actions between the two different churches.

[stang]

Originally Posted by photon

No, you don't. You think those "You've won a cruise" phone people are persistent? They've got nothing on Scientology.

If you do go, use a fake name, phone number, and address.

Now I am tempted to go in and check one out with a spy cam......

"My Name... uh... Tom Kruise, with a "K"
"Address... 123 Fake street."

[old-fart]

Originally Posted by Displaced Flames fan

That's what I was going to ask...is Scientology really a religion? I guess you and I are on the same page on that one.

The fact that it is called the Church of Scientology has always piqued my curiosity. I'm guessing that one word was installed as a big ol' hairy marketing tool.

Not a marketing tool - a tax dodge.

Hubbard himself said that if you want to make real money, you start a religion. Then he did.

How anyone can take this remotely seriously at all surprises me.

[Boblobla]

Between Scientology and people like Jim Carey I am fairly confident there is not one intelligent person in Hollywood. Oh well, at least the influence the way people think...

[troutman]

I don't think he renounced Scientology - rather, he is renouncing the leadership. It sounds like he still believes the core values.

[troutman]

Spokesman storms out of Nightline interview:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/1..._n_332715.html

Last night ABC's Nightline aired a report on the Church of Scientology, and accusations made against the church's leader, David Miscavige, by ex-Scientologists. At one point, during an interview with the church spokesman Tommy Davis, Nightline's Martin Bashir asked him about the church's alleged secret core beliefs that have been divulged by former Scientologists. Davis took great offense to Bashir's questions, and eventually walked out in the middle of the interview, tearing off his microphone and throwing it on the floor on his way out.

[Hack&Lube]

Originally Posted by troutman

I don't think he renounced Scientology - rather, he is renouncing the leadership. It sounds like he still believes the core values.

Yeah, sounds like he's separated himself from the organized church but I don't see any indication he's actually any saner and not getting his e-metering fix in someone's open scientology church in some basement every weekend to combat his thetans.

[Displaced Flames fan]

Originally Posted by old-fart

Not a marketing tool - a tax dodge.

Hubbard himself said that if you want to make real money, you start a religion. Then he did.

How anyone can take this remotely seriously at all surprises me.

Definitely. I wonder, though, how often a 'curious potential scientologist' is comforted by the word church when exploring?

[octothorp]

Originally Posted by oilers_fan

I say we just elect a member to become a scientologist. I see the building here all the time, and I've always been tempted to go in and see what it's all about.

Originally Posted by stang

Now I am tempted to go in and check one out with a spy cam......

"My Name... uh... Tom Kruise, with a "K"
"Address... 123 Fake street."

I've just concluded an extensive study that shows a correlation between being an Oilers fan and being tempted to go check out Scientology. I'll be moving ahead with further studies aimed at determining whether these individuals are just generally more susceptible to the lure of silly cults, or whether membership to the Oilers fan base is actually a causal factor to this temptation.

[icarus]

Originally Posted by octothorp

I've just concluded an extensive study that shows a correlation between being an Oilers fan and being tempted to go check out Scientology. I'll be moving ahead with further studies aimed at determining whether these individuals are just generally more susceptible to the lure of silly cults, or whether membership to the Oilers fan base is actually a causal factor to this temptation.

That's what happens when you drink KLowe Kool-aid.

[Hack&Lube]

The next time the Oilers go through a losing streak, I think Kevin Lowe should put the team through the purification run-down.

Lethal levels of niacin and plenty of hot steam sessions. It'll make the toxins leak right out of their skin onto their jerseys.

That's what scientology and Tom Cruise did to 9/11 firefighters when they enacted the program there.

[HotHotHeat]

Originally Posted by Phaneuf3

Well, there's a ton of different religions out there. I would say it differs greatly from Jainism or Buddhism in that regard but since I know what you're saying, lets just compare it to Christianity/Catholicism.

In the Catholic church you are free to come and go as you please. You can renounce your faith at any time without fear of physical harm from the church.
In the Catholic church any handing over of money is done purely at your discretion. Money changing hands is not a requirement of you receiving the teachings, sacraments, etc. You are not pressured to do so and certainly not to the point of your own ruin.
In the Catholic church its teachings are not secret and copyright and only revealed to you once you pay them large sums of money.
In the Catholic church you are not cut off from your family and friends.
In the Catholic church a significant portion of the money collected is intended to help the poor, hungry and needy.
Say what you will about the dogma, the effectiveness of their efforts, etc, etc. There is a huge difference in the intentions and the outcome of their actions between the two different churches.

When I stopped going to church, church going people thought much less of me, and let me know it in very aggressive ways. One person even told me I was ruining my life.

Why do people choose religion as a vehicle to give money to the poor? Can we say one way or the other that religion makes providing for the less fortunate more effective?

As far as differences between Catholicism and scientology, the most obvious one is that the Catholic church is much older. Beyond that, they both have had their share of ridiculousness/irrationality.

[MoneyGuy]

Originally Posted by fleury

I'm gonna be a debbie downer on this one, but why do religious threads get brought up here all the time by the same players? I'm not saying I agree/disagree, I just don't know why for no reason others come here to bash others' religions. Seems really odd to me.

I thanked you because I basically agree with you, although if there is one religion I think deserves all the criticism it gets, it's this one. I'm a Christian and I know my faith is outnumbered here, but I'll say that I can't believe the nonsense that Scientology spews. And that people buy it.