Liberals will move to topple Conservative Gov't

[EddyBeers]

Originally Posted by Zethrynn

It probably would of only been stable till one of the three parties in the proposed coalition decided they weren't getting there way..in my opinion of course..

That is true, that is going to be the case for Harper's new coalition with the separatists and the socialists as well, he will have to keep either his new socialist friends happy or his new separatist friends happy.

The key difference that I think the Tories will latch onto is that they only have to keep one of their two overlords pleased to maintain their governing status.

[starseed]

Originally Posted by EddyBeers

That is true, that is going to be the case for Harper's new coalition with the separatists and the socialists as well, he will have to keep either his new socialist friends happy or his new separatist friends happy.

The key difference that I think the Tories will latch onto is that they only have to keep one of their two overlords pleased to maintain their governing status.

The bloc signed an agreement not to take them down for 18 months, and the NDP were given cabinet posts, however unimportant. I think it would have lasted at least that long.

[Stranger]

I can't believe anyone would want Jack Layton anywhere near a position where he could make decisions for this country. His policies would bankrupt Canada. I wish an election would be called just to cut Jacks seats in parliment and put him in the backbenches where he belongs.

[Red Potato Standing By]

And then the liberals backed out of it so.....(though it probably was a smart move)

[Iowa_Flames_Fan]

Originally Posted by transplant99

I thought you were smarter than this.

Nice.

Well, if it takes special smarts to understand that the only possible rule is that what Stephen Harper does is right and good and what his opponents do is corrupt and evil... then yeah, I'm not smart enough.

How about you explain the difference so that a lackwit like me can understand it, then? I hope you can do better than a piece of paper.

The fact is, this "socialist-bloc-coalition" stuff is just nonsense and scare tactics. I know it, Stephen Harper knows it, Ignatieff knows it, Duceppe knows it and you know it. All of us are at least that smart.

We are likely to have minority governments for a while. We're having some growing pains right now as the political parties adjust to that reality. After they do--you'd better get used to coalition governments, because it's the only way we'll achieve any real stability in government. The sooner Stephen Harper figures that out, the better.

And for the record, I actually support Harper forming an informal, temporary coalition with the NDP on the basis of EI reforms, which is what he's doing. I think it's smart--both as a matter of policy and as a way of leaving the Liberals out in the cold in a political sense. I just wish he wouldn't be such a hypocrite about it.

[transplant99]

Well, if it takes special smarts to understand that the only possible rule is that what Stephen Harper does is right and good and what his opponents do is corrupt and evil... then yeah, I'm not smart enough.

Yeah...thats exactly what i said. Gimme a break.

How about you explain the difference so that a lackwit like me can understand it, then? I hope you can do better than a piece of paper.

Apparently...i cannot as its been done over and over both back then and again now. If you dont accept it fine, but dont play the whole "its the exact same thing" card, because you and i both know it is not. 6 weeks after an election and making backdoor deals to end the elected government is the same now as a party backing said government in order to maintain some stability? Sure thing. Also link me to the video where Harper sat at a table with a seperatist and Slick Black Jack, and announced that getting in bed with him was what the country wanted...even though that is not what they voted for.

Again...just as i did back in December, I almost wish they would bring down the government because it would be a death knell to the NDP's and possibly a Conservative majority. Ignatieff isn't ready to lead IMO and would get exposed as such in a campaign.

I just think there is so much ridiculous bickering going on by the opposition over stuff that simply is not whats important in these economic times. To me any opposition (including conservatives) that thinks toppling government every flippin 18 months needs to get their heads examined. 300+ million dollars to simply get back to where everything was before is so stupidly inane. And any party supporting such should be punished at the polls once and for all.

Unfortunately every party is now going to be forced to play these stupid games and have to compromise on their fundamentals as a party.

[mykalberta]

Originally Posted by EddyBeers

Good to see Harper jumping in bed with the socialists and the separatists.

You are right of course.

A Minority government proposing legislation and opposition parties supporting the legislation for the good of their constituents is the exact same thing as signing a declaration to form a coalition government.

How did I not see that parallel.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by starseed

The bloc signed an agreement not to take them down for 18 months, and the NDP were given cabinet posts, however unimportant. I think it would have lasted at least that long.

There is no such thing as honour amongst thieves.

That coalition would have fallen the moment Liberal fortunes started to tumble after they let Layton take control of the national purse. Or it would have fallen the moment the Bloc's "suggestions" regarding Quebec went unheard.

Frankly, if they had usurped power, we already would have gone to the polls, again.

[Azure]

How the hell ELSE is a minority government supposed to function outside of actually having to WORK with the opposition parties?

Some of you need to go beat some sense into your head. Maybe your obvious bias won't come out then.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by starseed

There were as many rallying in support of a coalition.

Here is a poll on what Canadians 'flat out' thought:

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNew...81202/20081202
.

revisionist history??

In fact, the national poll conducted by Ipsos Reid for Canwest News Service and Global National on Tuesday and Wednesday night, and following the televised address by both the Prime Minister and the Leader of the Coalition, indicates that the Harper Conservative government has the support of six in ten (60%) Canadians to ‘fight and do everything they can legally do to continue governing because of the severe economic situation the country faces, and the fact that the Liberals and the NDP have entered into an “unholy deal” with the Bloc separatists’. This compares with only four in ten (37%) who believe that ‘it's proper that a smooth transition of power to the Coalition takes place’.

From todays Toronto Star...

In an online survey of 1,002 voters completed Sunday, the Conservatives had a seven-point lead over the Liberals, 36 per cent to 29 per cent, among committed voters. The New Democrats had the support of 17 per cent, the Bloc Québécois 10 per cent and the Green party 7 per cent.
The margin of error is 3.1 percentage points, 19 times out of 20.

The Conservatives held a commanding 12 point lead over Michael Ignatieff's Liberals in Ontario.

The poll also showed almost six in 10 – 58 per cent – were against any move by the opposition to topple the Harper government.

What Canadians are witnessing has shaken them pretty much to the core: almost three quarters (72%) of Canadians indicate that they are truly scared for the future of the country with what is going on in Ottawa and the majority (62%) is angry with the Coalition taking over power from the governing Conservatives -- in fact, a majority in every region of the country is angry at the situation, except in Quebec where only 39% expressed this view.

http://www.ipsos-na.com/news/pressrelease.cfm?id=4201

numbers are pretty much the same now as they were then.

So i guess the question is...if the will of the Canadian people is that things remain as they are...who in the hell is Ignatieff, Duceppe or Black Jack to say otherwise?

[Devils'Advocate]

Originally Posted by Azure

How the hell ELSE is a minority government supposed to function outside of actually having to WORK with the opposition parties?

Some of you need to go beat some sense into your head. Maybe your obvious bias won't come out then.

But again, when the NDP, Liberals or Bloc work together it is treasonous and evil. The people on this forum talk out of both sides of their mouth better than most politicians.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Devils'Advocate

But again, when the NDP, Liberals or Bloc work together it is treasonous and evil. The people on this forum talk out of both sides of their mouth better than most politicians.

you honestly dont see the difference in this case??

They werent working WITH the government to pass a bill that needed confidence...they were working AGAINST the government to take them down even though the Canadian electorate didnt want it.

Please explain to mean how its the "same thing".

Only in Left-wing lala land IMO.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Devils'Advocate

But again, when the NDP, Liberals or Bloc work together it is treasonous and evil. The people on this forum talk out of both sides of their mouth better than most politicians.

Harper has no choice but to work with the other parties. Can't you see that?

The NDP, Liberals and Bloc were trying to bring down the government. Which is their right....especially if the party in charge is not doing its job properly.

But there is still a difference. Especially considering like Tranny said, they were doing it against the will of the people.

[Iowa_Flames_Fan]

Originally Posted by transplant99

you honestly dont see the difference in this case??

They werent working WITH the government to pass a bill that needed confidence...they were working AGAINST the government to take them down even though the Canadian electorate didnt want it.

Please explain to mean how its the "same thing".

Only in Left-wing lala land IMO.

Look, the fact that you're so defensive about this is pretty revealing. Harper has made a major concession on EI to the NDP in order to win their support for his government. This is smart, and it will probably work. Why would you consider that such a bad thing that you won't even admit that he did it?

As it turns out, Harper will likely have the support of the separatists, meaning he doesn't need the socialists after all. Which for those of us who don't want an election yet (myself included) is good news.

Pretending that this situation is in every sense different from the coalition debacle last fall might help you sleep a little better at night. But that doesn't make it so.

I'll readily admit that Harper is better at managing the optics than Dion was. (and note--all of the so-called "qualitative" differences between the situation have to do with optics) But the fact is, he needs the support of one of the parties or his government will fall. That means working with them. This is a good thing.

[transplant99]

Ignatieff with some 'splainin to do?

E-mail sent to selected reporters by Dimitri Soudas from the Prime Minister's Office, 2:01 p.m. Tuesday:

When you’re an opportunist like Michael Ignatieff, you think nothing of saying one thing in public, another in private.
This morning Premier Dalton McGuinty told reporters that he has received Michael Ignatieff’s backing for the harmonized sales tax. According to the Premier, “We have secured Mr. Ignatieff’s commitments to moving ahead with the single sales tax should he earn the privilege of serving Canadians in government.”
Ignatieff’s secret guarantee contradicts his public attack on harmonization. Just the other week Ignatieff told CTV News, “The HST, the Harper sales tax, the thing that concerns us is that the Harper government has, during a time of recession and economic difficulty, basically pushed sales tax harmonization across the country…” (Sept. 4)
This isn’t a flip flop. His action is calculated and opportunistic. Ignatieff is deliberately saying one thing to Ontarians while cutting the opposite deal behind closed doors. More evidence that he’s not in it for Canadians. He’s in it for himself.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/politi...ion_alert.html

[Slava]

^ That article basically just proves the point that Harper is aligned with the horrible socialists?

[starseed]

Is that what the ipsos poll actually asked? No wonder those polls always are more favourable to the conservatives than others. The latest ipsos polls have the conservatives with a 9 point lead, while angus reid has them with a 4 point lead.

Here is another one on 08's coalition threat:

http://network.nationalpost.com/np/b...ment-poll.aspx

• 35% believe the Conservatives deserve to continue in government; 40% disagree
• If the Tories fall: 37% would allow the opposition to form a coalition government; 32% would hold a new federal election

Regardless, these polls show Canadian were more divided than anything else.

[CaptainCrunch]

Woh a politician talking out of both sides of his mouth.

Veeeerrrryyyyy inteeeeresting

[transplant99]

Look, the fact that you're so defensive about this is pretty revealing. Harper has made a major concession on EI to the NDP in order to win their support for his government. This is smart, and it will probably work. Why would you consider that such a bad thing that you won't even admit that he did it?

Where did I say its a bad thing and wont admit it?? Strange statement.

And what exactly does this "reveal" about me?

Pretending that this situation is in every sense different from the coalition debacle last fall might help you sleep a little better at night. But that doesn't make it so.

Pretending?? Wow. I sleep just fine though...thanks for your concern. And it is different...completely and entirely.

I'll readily admit that Harper is better at managing the optics than Dion was. (and note--all of the so-called "qualitative" differences between the situation have to do with optics) But the fact is, he needs the support of one of the parties or his government will fall. That means working with them. This is a good thing.

Finally you see the light!! Working WITH them...not AGAINST them... to topple them and usurp power.

Of course he needs support or gets toppled..as the left has been clamoring since last December..its how the system works. But sorry I dont see where the opposition was working WITH the government back then. No where and no how.

And you still claim its the same thing?

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Slava

^ That article basically just proves the point that Harper is aligned with the horrible socialists?

Eh??