Liberals will move to topple Conservative Gov't

[starseed]

They were talking about how the conservatives brought Canada into a deficit before the recession hit. We were posting surpluses and paying down debt, and we were the best G8 country at doing so until the conservatives took power...

the conservatives were also the largest spending government in Canadian history.

[starseed]

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2009/...1.html?ref=rss

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNew...hub=TopStories

OMG. Question period is going to be a hell of a lot of fun now.

[Iowa_Flames_Fan]

Originally Posted by starseed

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2009/...1.html?ref=rss

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNew...hub=TopStories

OMG. Question period is going to be a hell of a lot of fun now.

You know, if the Liberal strategy all along was to force the NDP to prop up the government for another year in order to give themselves some breathing room to start building an effective opposition-message against the Tories...

Then I have to say, that's diabolical--a play worthy of Stephen Harper, who seems for the first time in a while to be flailing around for a response. If that was the strategy, then Harper may finally have found an opponent to really test his mettle.

Of course, if the strategy was to force an election that no-one wants and that you can't bring about on your own anyway, then I think it's foolish. But right now, it looks like an election won't happen, and Ignatieff has forced the Tories and the NDP into bed with each other.

[octothorp]

Here's the Harris Decima that came out yesterday. Sample size is 2000, which is smaller than Ekos but larger that Ipsos or Strategic Council. Some numbers to look at:

NDP down everywhere: down 3 points in Quebec from last election, 5 points in Ontario (but a mini-comeback in recent weeks), and 10 points in BC. That's the number one reason you won't see an election this fall. Liberal support is up in all of those locations, which supports the theory that NDP got high numbers from a lot of soft Liberals supporters last time around.
Tough call for the Tories. If you look at those BC numbers, you think maybe there's the chance that you can get a bunch of those NDP seats (since there are a lot of NDP seats where the Tories were second), and a majority government becomes a possibility. But that's only if you can hold Ontario, and the weakened NDP there actually plays into the Liberals' hands.

http://www.decima.ca/sites/default/f...9-14-en302.pdf

[CaptainCrunch]

Looks like the Bloc and NDP are going to vote for the Conservatives.

http://www.canada.com/life/Bloc+supp...762/story.html

I have trouble believing that the Liberal's would be stupid enough to vote against a bill that includes

The vote Friday puts in place the necessary regulations and legislations for the home renovation tax credit, drought and flood relief, and some minor reductions in tariffs on truck traffic through the country,

If they do, Ignatieff is going to look ridiculous and he's going to get hammered on that point in any election, not by one party, but all three.

[starseed]

I fata'd

The Liberals will introduce their own confidence motion in October, but I am beginning to doubt that the government will fall at all this year.

[EddyBeers]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Looks like the Bloc and NDP are going to vote for the Conservatives.

http://www.canada.com/life/Bloc+supp...762/story.html

I have trouble believing that the Liberal's would be stupid enough to vote against a bill that includes



If they do, Ignatieff is going to look ridiculous and he's going to get hammered on that point in any election, not by one party, but all three.

Good to see Harper jumping in bed with the socialists and the separatists.

[Rerun]

Originally Posted by EddyBeers

Good to see Harper jumping in bed with the socialists and the separatists.

Talk about exagerration and misinformation!

As far as I know, he's not jumping into bed with anyone. It up to them whether or not they want to support the Conservative party or not in the next confidence vote. No meetings have been held, no agreements have been signed (unlike the Liberals, NDP, and BQ did previously).

If you can't be honest in your comments, don't say anything at all.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by EddyBeers

Good to see Harper jumping in bed with the socialists and the separatists.

Garbage, the conservatives didn't change anything on the bill to placate the Bloc or NDP.

Frankly if the Bloc and NDP vote for it, and the Liberals vote against it the Ignatieff looks power hungry.

If Ignatieff votes for it then he looks wishy washy after all of he rhetoric.

But it wasn't the cons who out maneuvered Iggy, it was the Bloc and the NDP.

[starseed]

Originally Posted by Rerun

Talk about exagerration and misinformation!

As far as I know, he's not jumping into bed with anyone. It up to them whether or not they want to support the Conservative party or not in the next confidence vote. No meetings have been held, no agreements have been signed (unlike the Liberals, NDP, and BQ did previously).

If you can't be honest in your comments, don't say anything at all.

You forgot to add the conservatives in that list.

[EddyBeers]

Originally Posted by Rerun

Talk about exagerration and misinformation!

As far as I know, he's not jumping into bed with anyone. It up to them whether or not they want to support the Conservative party or not in the next confidence vote. No meetings have been held, no agreements have been signed (unlike the Liberals, NDP, and BQ did previously).

If you can't be honest in your comments, don't say anything at all.

I see that Starseed beat me to the punch, but you missed the Conservatives in 2004 who actively engaged in meetings and negotiations with the Bloc.

As for the Tories not changing anything in the bill, I would imagine their changes to EI were put in place to placate the Bloc and NDP. Raising payroll taxes on small business would either have been put in to gain the support of the Bloc and NDP or perhaps it is a Tory policy plank (raising taxes).

As per the article that CaptainCrunch put up

"Should the NDP join the BQ in supporting the government, the Tories will be supported, in his words, by "socialists and separatists," the kind of backing Harper attacked Liberal Leader Michael Ignatieff for seeking in a speech the prime minister gave to supporters earlier this month in Sault Ste. Marie, Ont.

"If we do not win a majority," Harper said, "this country will have a Liberal government propped up by the socialists and the separatists. That government may not last very long, but every day it's in office, it will do long-term real damage to this country. This country cannot afford a government like that."

And the best line in the article has to go to James Moore:

""There's certainly a difference between a Conservative government that wants to govern in the best interests of Canadians and, obviously, Liberals who will sign a coalition deal, giving the balance of power permanently to the Bloc Quebecois," said Heritage Minister James Moore."

That is right James, the proposed coalition was a permanent benevolent dictatorship. I hate to break it to all the Harper supporters, but this government will last because now because of the permanent support of either the socialists or the separatists. That seems to be very similar to the very coalition that Harper railed against a week ago in Sault Ste. Marie.

I imagine CaptainCrunch might be right, the Grits could get hammered on not supporting those initiatives, but if they do, I imagine they will hammer Harper right back for being soft on crime

He said he's also disappointed that the government refused to join the other parties on Tuesday to fast-track a private member's bill that was introduced to prevent white-collar criminals from getting early release from prison sentences.

[Iowa_Flames_Fan]

Originally Posted by Rerun

Talk about exagerration and misinformation!

As far as I know, he's not jumping into bed with anyone. It up to them whether or not they want to support the Conservative party or not in the next confidence vote. No meetings have been held, no agreements have been signed (unlike the Liberals, NDP, and BQ did previously).

If you can't be honest in your comments, don't say anything at all.

Let me make sure I understand.

Liberal government propped up by the NDP and/or Bloc=UNDEMOCRATIC COUP!!!!! SECRET SEPARATIST AND SOCIALIST CABAL!!! AAAAAAAAA!!!!!

Conservative government propped up by the NDP and/or Bloc=Perfectly normal, nothing to see here.

I just want to make sure I get it--I'd hate to think that you have one set of rules for the Tories and another set for everyone else.

[Red Potato Standing By]

Originally Posted by Iowa_Flames_Fan

Let me make sure I understand.

Liberal government propped up by the NDP and/or Bloc=UNDEMOCRATIC COUP!!!!! SECRET SEPARATIST AND SOCIALIST CABAL!!! AAAAAAAAA!!!!!

Conservative government propped up by the NDP and/or Bloc=Perfectly normal, nothing to see here.

I just want to make sure I get it--I'd hate to think that you have one set of rules for the Tories and another set for everyone else.

Just wondering did the conservatives ask them to prop them up? and if they didn't then are you saying they should tell them not to?

[Byrns]

Originally Posted by Iowa_Flames_Fan

Let me make sure I understand.

Liberal government propped up by the NDP and/or Bloc=UNDEMOCRATIC COUP!!!!! SECRET SEPARATIST AND SOCIALIST CABAL!!! AAAAAAAAA!!!!!

Conservative government propped up by the NDP and/or Bloc=Perfectly normal, nothing to see here.

I just want to make sure I get it--I'd hate to think that you have one set of rules for the Tories and another set for everyone else.

Lets see the signed coalition document Stephen Harper drafted with the BQ?

I found the socialist one.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Iowa_Flames_Fan

Let me make sure I understand.

Liberal government propped up by the NDP and/or Bloc=UNDEMOCRATIC COUP!!!!! SECRET SEPARATIST AND SOCIALIST CABAL!!! AAAAAAAAA!!!!!

Conservative government propped up by the NDP and/or Bloc=Perfectly normal, nothing to see here.

I just want to make sure I get it--I'd hate to think that you have one set of rules for the Tories and another set for everyone else.

I thought you were smarter than this.

[starseed]

Originally Posted by Byrns

Lets see the signed coalition document Stephen Harper drafted with the BQ?

I found the socialist one.

This is the letter he sent to Adrienne Clarkson in 2004.

The differences between 04, 08 and now, is that in 04 Harper went to the bloc and specifically talked to the bloc about payment for their support, in 08 the bloc only agreed to not bring down the Liberal/NDP coalition for 18 months, and today the Conservatives are being propped up by the bloc and NDP because Harper threw them a bone.

[starseed]

Originally Posted by transplant99

I thought you were smarter than this.

What is untrue about his statement? The Liberals/NDP had shown the GG that they could hold the confidence of parliament, there is nothing wrong about that at all. The charges of treason by Harper and his camp are nothing more than him playing to his ignorant base and trying to sway other people ignorant of how the parliamentary system works. Harper is holding the confidence of the house by the same parties he condemned earlier.

Either it is treason to have a government supported by the bloc, or it is just parliament at work. I wonder what Harper would say today?

[transplant99]

The Liberals/NDP had shown the GG that they could hold the confidence of parliament, there is nothing wrong about that at all

Except that 6 WEEKS previous there was an election held that said that the Conservatives were to form the government...not a three-headed monster that even the most ardent Liberals admitted was wrong on every level except legally. Canadians flat out did not want it...period.

Never mind that Stephane Dion, the guy that was gonna lead said coup into power, campaigned and said he would not EVER form a coalition with seperatists.

Thats the difference. Not going to get into all of it again as there is a thread somewhere i resurrected a couple weeks ago that has thousands of posts going over all this from every angle, but they are completely different scenarios.

truthfully i wished they did bring down the gov't on Friday as I have a feeling it would finally lead to a conservative majority when all is said and done and the bozos in Ottawa could quit wasting 1/3 of a billion dollars a year on completely unnecessary elections.

The charges of treason by Harper and his camp are nothing more than him playing to his ignorant base

LOl...yeah OK. Everyone who thought it wrong was just ignorant.

Yikes.

[starseed]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Except that 6 WEEKS previous there was an election held that said that the Conservatives were to form the government...not a three-headed monster that even the most ardent Liberals admitted was wrong on every level except legally. Canadians flat out did not want it...period.

There were as many rallying in support of a coalition.

Here is a poll on what Canadians 'flat out' thought:

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNew...81202/20081202

• Opposition coalition: 37 per cent
• Holding a federal election: 32 per cent
• No sure: 24 per cent
• Allowing the opposition to run by accord: 7 per cent

Never mind that Stephane Dion, the guy that was gonna lead said coup into power, campaigned and said he would not EVER form a coalition with seperatists.

Thats the difference. Not going to get into all of it again as there is a thread somewhere i resurrected a couple weeks ago that has thousands of posts going over all this from every angle, but they are completely different scenarios.

truthfully i wished they did bring down the gov't on Friday as I have a feeling it would finally lead to a conservative majority when all is said and done and the bozos in Ottawa could quit wasting 1/3 of a billion dollars a year on completely unnecessary elections.

I am thankful Dion is no longer Liberal leader, but if the Liberal party had not fast tracked Ignatieff's take over, and they had gone ahead with the coalition, I am saying that it would be perfectly legal. It would also have brought stability to the government.

LOl...yeah OK. Everyone who thought it wrong was just ignorant.

Yikes.

If you thought it was wrong, that is fine. If you thought it was treason then yes, you would be ignorant to the Canadian parliamentary system.

[Red Potato Standing By]

Originally Posted by starseed

There were as many rallying in support of a coalition.

Here is a poll on what Canadians 'flat out' thought:

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNew...81202/20081202





I am thankful Dion is no longer Liberal leader, but if the Liberal party had not fast tracked Ignatieff's take over, and they had gone ahead with the coalition, I am saying that it would be perfectly legal. It would also have brought stability to the government.



If you thought it was wrong, that is fine. If you thought it was treason then yes, you would be ignorant to the Canadian parliamentary system.

It probably would of only been stable till one of the three parties in the proposed coalition decided they weren't getting there way..in my opinion of course..